Eternal torment VS Annihilation
- Thread starter LW97
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Also another fact regarding the eternal fire that destroyed Sodom and Gomorrha (Jude 7) - does it still burn? Or are the results of it forever?
About Revelation 14, "those who worship the beast" is present tense just like "they that keep the commandments" in Verse 12. Hence, it does not say "those who HAVE worshipped the beast". Just like nobody will worship the beast in the Lake of Fire, the saints will no longer have to endure after their salvation is complete (which is when they die).
About Revelation 14, "those who worship the beast" is present tense just like "they that keep the commandments" in Verse 12. Hence, it does not say "those who HAVE worshipped the beast". Just like nobody will worship the beast in the Lake of Fire, the saints will no longer have to endure after their salvation is complete (which is when they die).
-
2
- Show all
Obviously both are true. At some point they are going to be tormented in the presence of the holy and angels and the Lamb and they will be shut away from God's presence. These scriptures that you are attempting to base annihilation have no power. I've provided the word olethros translated as destruction which specifically states that the word does not imply annihilation, but you ignore that and jump from one thing to another. How about addressing the definition of the word olethros?
-
1
- Show all
Who is tormented for all eternity?
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand,
10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Rev 14
It is obvious, those who receive the mark of the beast are tormented for eternity, while the rest are destroyed.
If it was not so, and all are tormented equally, then there is no worse fate to have the mark of the beast than
being an ordinary sinner. And clearly revelations is saying it is far worse if you align yourself with the beast.
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand,
10 he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Rev 14
It is obvious, those who receive the mark of the beast are tormented for eternity, while the rest are destroyed.
If it was not so, and all are tormented equally, then there is no worse fate to have the mark of the beast than
being an ordinary sinner. And clearly revelations is saying it is far worse if you align yourself with the beast.
Well, if the word olethros does not imply annihilation (extinction), then the only other choice is on-going existence.
Everyone who comes into the world their physical body will die, but they will exist forever. There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. When the righteous are resurrected, they will be immortal and glorified in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God. While the wicked will receive resurrected bodies at the great white throne judgment mete for eternal torment in the lake of fire. This is how it will be possible for the smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever.
Everyone who comes into the world their physical body will die, but they will exist forever. There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked. When the righteous are resurrected, they will be immortal and glorified in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God. While the wicked will receive resurrected bodies at the great white throne judgment mete for eternal torment in the lake of fire. This is how it will be possible for the smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever.
"Everlasting destruction 2 Thess. 1:9 says that the unsaved will be "punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord" (NIV); "shut out" is not in Greek. The verse should read something like "the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord" (ESV). Considering that God is omnipresent then only through annihilation, the cessation of life, can it be said that a person is away from God's presence. A living being cannot be separated from our omnipresent God; life has to cease for that to happen. "
The above comment is a presupposition. You need to do a study on The Presence of God. God can be present and still not hear you.
many scriptures speak of the Lord God:
In each point, God was still present yet He was not there. Where did HE go? He removed HIS presence. He would not hear their cries. This a judgment of eternal condition. and enteral being can be separated from God because God has chosen to do so. The idea that man can not be separated from an all presence God is completely unbiblical and human reasoning used to interpret that idea. God does not hear sinner right now. They are separated from God by their sin. God the Father hears no one without Coming by the Lord Jesus Christ " I am the way" Gospel of John 14:6 God his still all present Yet people are here right now who God will not hear.
Hell is an eternal place where God chooses not to be present, speak, hear, or answer. The Lord God is fully capable of doing just that because we see HE did do exactly that in the word of God.
The above comment is a presupposition. You need to do a study on The Presence of God. God can be present and still not hear you.
many scriptures speak of the Lord God:
- Not answering, Prov 1:28
- Hid His face Mic 3:4
- Will not hear those who cry out Isa 59:2
- Separate Deu 29:21, Matt 25:32
- Depart Ps 104:1,Judge 16:20, Matt 7:23,
In each point, God was still present yet He was not there. Where did HE go? He removed HIS presence. He would not hear their cries. This a judgment of eternal condition. and enteral being can be separated from God because God has chosen to do so. The idea that man can not be separated from an all presence God is completely unbiblical and human reasoning used to interpret that idea. God does not hear sinner right now. They are separated from God by their sin. God the Father hears no one without Coming by the Lord Jesus Christ " I am the way" Gospel of John 14:6 God his still all present Yet people are here right now who God will not hear.
Hell is an eternal place where God chooses not to be present, speak, hear, or answer. The Lord God is fully capable of doing just that because we see HE did do exactly that in the word of God.
Well, the only way that man can escape would be to receive Christ while still alive in this present life. But once a person dies without Christ, their record is sealed. As the scripture states, " whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son does not have life. To be clear, life and death are both states of existence:
Life = eternal existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God
Death = eternal existence in separation from God in the lake of fire
Life = eternal existence in the joy of the Lord in the kingdom of God
Death = eternal existence in separation from God in the lake of fire
-
1
- Show all