100% Election 100% of the time.

[theanointedwinner]

when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God (John 5:25)

clarification please, how can the deaf hear voices, let alone the dead, being able to hear the voice of the Son of God

especially in this context, like "define dead" yet still capable of hearing

 

[Nehemiah6]

...how can the deaf hear voices, let alone the dead, being able to hear the voice of the Son of God

The answer is rather simple. When a Christian dies, his/her body is interred in a grave.
But the soul and spirit are very much awake and alive in Heaven. So they can easily hear the voice of Christ. As to those who are Hades, the same principle applies.

Jesus called Lazarus out of Sheol/Hades when He resurrected him. But his body was in the tomb, and was joined to his soul and spirit upon being resurrected.

 

[posthuman]

when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God (John 5:25)

clarification please, how can the deaf hear voices, let alone the dead, being able to hear the voice of the Son of God

especially in this context, like "define dead" yet still capable of hearing

this is a pretty special voice

 

[cv5]

Exactly, boasting is about having something over and above others.

The idea that a person was gifted faith for salvation and others are not is the person who can boast.

Scripture states there is no boasting because we all have the exact same point of entry......being persuaded, believing on Christ Jesus as saviour!

Nothing about points of entry here other than a total lack of it on our part.....

Rom 9

"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

 

[cv5]

The answer is rather simple. When a Christian dies, his/her body is interred in a grave.
But the soul and spirit are very much awake and alive in Heaven. So they can easily hear the voice of Christ. As to those who are Hades, the same principle applies.

Jesus called Lazarus out of Sheol/Hades when He resurrected him. But his body was in the tomb, and was joined to his soul and spirit upon being resurrected.

That does nothing to answer how someone existing on this earth here and now who is dead in traspasses and sins can in and of themselves hear the Words of Christ.

 

[UnderGrace]

Nothing about points of entry here other than a total lack of it on our part.....

Rom 9

"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

The point of entry is Jesus.....the narrow gate, interesting that there is no mention of God carrying people through the gate... LOL

 

[cv5]

The point of entry is Jesus.....the narrow gate, interesting that there is no mention of God carrying people through the gate... LOL

For those upon whom God shows mercy and reveals Jesus as Savior.
The rest are hardened. Such as for example every other person at my office. It is perfectly obvious to me that God has NOT revealed to them His Son. If He had, they would be convicted and converted....

 

[Skyline]

For those upon whom God shows mercy and reveals Jesus as Savior.
The rest are hardened. Such as for example every other person at my office. It is perfectly obvious to me that God has NOT revealed to them His Son. If He had, they would be convicted and converted....

My office has many kind, honest people who are not Christians. Many donate their time to help the needy. Can this be said of every Christian?

 

[Skyline]

Nothing about points of entry here other than a total lack of it on our part.....

Rom 9

"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.

Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.

Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.

God bless

 

[dcontroversal]

There is no selection process.
The Gospel is a call to "believe"

Amen...many called but few chosen.....how many times do we need to get through our heads that many is not all and few is not all of the many.....to say man "a" will be saved and man "b" is S.O.L........is idiotic and denies a plethora of scripture in context!!

 

[Skyline]

How I read Romans 9 = The rules of the game were changed by God against what the Jews thougt. The Law would not save them. They had to believe in Jesus Christ, plus the Gentiles got the same God! God had changed it up with Esau (first born) and Jacob (Israel), both sons of Isaac and of Abrahams promise, and God changed the rules again with the Law (per how the Jews saw it)
Israel is the special purpose clay; they killed Jesus.
Thus Pauls anguish...the Law does not save them..
Romans 10 and 11 continues about Israel.

God had mercy and compassion (verse 15) on me, a Gentile! The common use clay

“Again I ask: Did they [Israel] stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11:11‬ ‭NIV‬‬

God bless

 

[posthuman]

The point of entry is Jesus.....the narrow gate, interesting that there is no mention of God carrying people through the gate... LOL

Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home.
(Luke 15:4-6)​

​

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.​

(John 10:1)​

 

[posthuman]

​

Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home. ​

(Luke 15:4-6)​

​

Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.​

(John 10:1)​

when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. ​

(Luke 14:13-14) ​

it's great to be invited, but how do the crippled & lame get to the banquet??

_________________________________

 

[posthuman]

When I read it I see nations.

does verse 20 say 'but who are you, a nation, to talk back to God?' or does it say 'an human being' ?

to me, it doesn't seem to 'explain away' the profound things said in this chapter by attributing them all solely to nations, because even if so, every nation is composed of individuals. i don't see how a people can be sovereignly purposed without also the persons that comprise it -- and one of Paul's major thesis in this chapter is that 'not all Israel is Israel' but God has continually sifted it, separating to Himself a remnant, even from the beginning choosing Isaac, then Jacob, and so on. and this selection process being described is said to be 'in order that His purpose in election might stand'

i see nations, too, but nations are made of people.

 

[cv5]

My office has many kind, honest people who are not Christians. Many donate their time to help the needy. Can this be said of every Christian?

Question: are they doing God's will, or their own will? For God's Glory or their own glory?

 

[cv5]

My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.

Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.

Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.

God bless

Entirely about Israel? Hardly. BTW was Pharaoh Jewish?

"even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea,

“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”

 

[posthuman]

Question: are they doing God's will, or their own will? For God's Glory or their own glory?

'not by works'

 

[PennEd]

My office has many kind, honest people who are not Christians. Many donate their time to help the needy. Can this be said of every Christian?

Kind and honest by whose standard?

 

[cv5]

My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.

Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.

Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.

God bless

The predominant theme in Romans 9 is surely God's sovereign choice. Israel is the incidental beneficiary as are we.

John 15....there it is again!

“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

Col 3.....again!

"Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive."

 

[cv5]

My office has many kind, honest people who are not Christians. Many donate their time to help the needy. Can this be said of every Christian?

Col 3:17

"And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."

So called good deeds wrought by the will of man, though perhaps not objectional, doubtless miss the mark.....