100% Election 100% of the time.
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The answer is rather simple. When a Christian dies, his/her body is interred in a grave.
But the soul and spirit are very much awake and alive in Heaven. So they can easily hear the voice of Christ. As to those who are Hades, the same principle applies.
Jesus called Lazarus out of Sheol/Hades when He resurrected him. But his body was in the tomb, and was joined to his soul and spirit upon being resurrected.
But the soul and spirit are very much awake and alive in Heaven. So they can easily hear the voice of Christ. As to those who are Hades, the same principle applies.
Jesus called Lazarus out of Sheol/Hades when He resurrected him. But his body was in the tomb, and was joined to his soul and spirit upon being resurrected.
Nothing about points of entry here other than a total lack of it on our part.....
Rom 9
"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Rom 9
"though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? 
Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.
Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.
Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.
God bless
Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.
Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.
God bless
How I read Romans 9 = The rules of the game were changed by God against what the Jews thougt. The Law would not save them. They had to believe in Jesus Christ, plus the Gentiles got the same God! God had changed it up with Esau (first born) and Jacob (Israel), both sons of Isaac and of Abrahams promise, and God changed the rules again with the Law (per how the Jews saw it)
Israel is the special purpose clay; they killed Jesus.
Thus Pauls anguish...the Law does not save them..
Romans 10 and 11 continues about Israel.
God had mercy and compassion (verse 15) on me, a Gentile! The common use clay
“Again I ask: Did they [Israel] stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.”
Romans 11:11 NIV
God bless
Israel is the special purpose clay; they killed Jesus.
Thus Pauls anguish...the Law does not save them..
Romans 10 and 11 continues about Israel.
God had mercy and compassion (verse 15) on me, a Gentile! The common use clay
“Again I ask: Did they [Israel] stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious.”
Romans 11:11 NIV
God bless
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Doesn’t he leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it? And when he finds it, he joyfully puts it on his shoulders and goes home.
(Luke 15:4-6)
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber.
(John 10:1)
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does verse 20 say 'but who are you, a nation, to talk back to God?' or does it say 'an human being' ?
to me, it doesn't seem to 'explain away' the profound things said in this chapter by attributing them all solely to nations, because even if so, every nation is composed of individuals. i don't see how a people can be sovereignly purposed without also the persons that comprise it -- and one of Paul's major thesis in this chapter is that 'not all Israel is Israel' but God has continually sifted it, separating to Himself a remnant, even from the beginning choosing Isaac, then Jacob, and so on. and this selection process being described is said to be 'in order that His purpose in election might stand'
i see nations, too, but nations are made of people.
to me, it doesn't seem to 'explain away' the profound things said in this chapter by attributing them all solely to nations, because even if so, every nation is composed of individuals. i don't see how a people can be sovereignly purposed without also the persons that comprise it -- and one of Paul's major thesis in this chapter is that 'not all Israel is Israel' but God has continually sifted it, separating to Himself a remnant, even from the beginning choosing Isaac, then Jacob, and so on. and this selection process being described is said to be 'in order that His purpose in election might stand'
i see nations, too, but nations are made of people.
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My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.
Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.
Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.
God bless
Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.
Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.
God bless
"even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? As indeed he says in Hosea,
“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’”
My 2 cents: when I have and read Romans 9 I see it as entirely about Israel. It starts with Israel and ends about Israel. Where does personal salvation come into play? Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.
Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.
Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.
God bless
Paul says nothing about personal salvation, he is speaking to and about Israel.Re-read it as if its being directed to Jews. That the question in verse 19 is from a Jew who has followed the law and expects righteousness based on the promise.
Some I guess push Issac and Esau and their personal salvation, which scripture (verse 13) does not say. No where in the Bible that I am aware does it say Esau personally was not credited faithfulness as well. When I read it I see nations.
God bless
John 15....there it is again!
“If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.
Col 3.....again!
"Put on then, as God’s chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive."