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While your contention is wholly without merit it simply does not change the meaning and intent of the scriptures is Ephesians 2.
It is the Holy Spirit that makes alive the soul that is dead in trespass and sin. Ephesians 2:1 You are a lost soul until the moment the Holy Spirit makes you alive in Christ by grace through faith.
Water baptism has nothing to do with the new birth in Christ unto eternal life. Tongues have nothing to do with the conversion of the soul.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
It is the Holy Spirit that makes alive the soul that is dead in trespass and sin. Ephesians 2:1 You are a lost soul until the moment the Holy Spirit makes you alive in Christ by grace through faith.
Water baptism has nothing to do with the new birth in Christ unto eternal life. Tongues have nothing to do with the conversion of the soul.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Why would you even preach another gospel by destroying the foundation of the doctrine ? What the hope?
Speaking a new tongue as the gospel is part of any Spirit filled church ..Its the result of being saved .A new desire to preach the tongue of God prophecy, Do you speak another kind of gospel . The gospel of the unknown wonderment?
Why two baptisms .Which one counts? The one not seen or the one seen.? And how does falling backward fit itno the kind of church where people run low on the spirit and must repeat the performance to get them self filled with the ghost. .
Speaking a new tongue as the gospel is part of any Spirit filled church ..Its the result of being saved .A new desire to preach the tongue of God prophecy, Do you speak another kind of gospel . The gospel of the unknown wonderment?
Why two baptisms .Which one counts? The one not seen or the one seen.? And how does falling backward fit itno the kind of church where people run low on the spirit and must repeat the performance to get them self filled with the ghost. .
The unbelieving Jew performed the same kind of false witness . (self will) No witness of the Spirit but rather the witness of their own flesh minds building up the witness of self edification according to what the eye see the temporal . Look what I did. Watch I will do it again mentality .
John 6 below reveals the kind of spirit side show Waggles is trying to sell .( No faith) Not miracle we refuse to believe.
John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Not comparing the unseen spiritual to the same (faith to faith)
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Requiring what the eyes se before they could claim witness of the Spirit being filled falling backward as sign of the Spirt full tank.
Its not us that bears witness with of spirit. Not by our spirit
Romans 8:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
John 6 below reveals the kind of spirit side show Waggles is trying to sell .( No faith) Not miracle we refuse to believe.
John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Not comparing the unseen spiritual to the same (faith to faith)
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
Requiring what the eyes se before they could claim witness of the Spirit being filled falling backward as sign of the Spirt full tank.
Its not us that bears witness with of spirit. Not by our spirit
Romans 8:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
I'm hoping you will see this answer as a clarification and NOT as an attempt to make you look bad.
One of the reason most churches are woefully unprepared is because they read the word and make incorrect ASSUMPTIONS as to what it said/says.
And we're all capable of doing it. I will go so far as to say that the reason you see a conundrum is because you'd already made an incorrect assumption concerning the few words that I'd said. I'll point it out and clarify the importance in my next post, hopefully. But meanwhile, reread my original post and compare it to what you said in your first reply to see if you can spot the assumption.
I'll give you a hint. The wrong assumption is in your sentence starting with "But churches".
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
One of the reason most churches are woefully unprepared is because they read the word and make incorrect ASSUMPTIONS as to what it said/says.
And we're all capable of doing it. I will go so far as to say that the reason you see a conundrum is because you'd already made an incorrect assumption concerning the few words that I'd said. I'll point it out and clarify the importance in my next post, hopefully. But meanwhile, reread my original post and compare it to what you said in your first reply to see if you can spot the assumption.
I'll give you a hint. The wrong assumption is in your sentence starting with "But churches".
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
Test the spirits:
John 4:24 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.4.24.KJV
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Worship God is the correct Spirit. But the spirit in the passages below is not the Holy Spirit. And these situations are similar to the speaking in tongues in baptism of the Holy Spirit by the charismatics. Please reflect about this and may God bless you and open your eyes.
Luke 9:39 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/luk.9.39.KJV
And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him.
Mark 9:20 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/mrk.9.20.KJV
And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
Job 4:15 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/job.4.15.KJV
Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
John 4:24 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/jhn.4.24.KJV
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Worship God is the correct Spirit. But the spirit in the passages below is not the Holy Spirit. And these situations are similar to the speaking in tongues in baptism of the Holy Spirit by the charismatics. Please reflect about this and may God bless you and open your eyes.
Luke 9:39 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/luk.9.39.KJV
And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him.
Mark 9:20 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/mrk.9.20.KJV
And they brought him unto him: and when he saw him, straightway the spirit tare him; and he fell on the ground, and wallowed foaming.
Job 4:15 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/job.4.15.KJV
Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
Sorry, forgive me I was born odd colorful just ask my wife.
Well I would thnk because we defend the same spirit faith as it is written it would be your homework to see if what I am offering is true to the word. Personally your idea seems odd to be.
Do we look to the things seen to give a faith to believe God not seen or do we look to the things seen. Can't serve two teaching masters. Jesus said only God not seen is the one good teaching master.
I think you forgot prophecy is scripture. (not a private interpretation) When prophets as believers prophesy we declare scripture ,(the word of God) as the seed of Chjist. . Can't divide scripture from scripture.
We should be careful how we hear. We are made aware of the wile of the devil that call that divided that God calls altogether as one.
How could the deaf hear the words of scripture found in the book prophecy unless a prophet declares it. How beautiful are the feet that bring the good news of prophecy, scripture, as it is written .
A parable of our salvation.
Isaiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.Revelation 22:19-21
Well I would thnk because we defend the same spirit faith as it is written it would be your homework to see if what I am offering is true to the word. Personally your idea seems odd to be.
Do we look to the things seen to give a faith to believe God not seen or do we look to the things seen. Can't serve two teaching masters. Jesus said only God not seen is the one good teaching master.
I think you forgot prophecy is scripture. (not a private interpretation) When prophets as believers prophesy we declare scripture ,(the word of God) as the seed of Chjist. . Can't divide scripture from scripture.
We should be careful how we hear. We are made aware of the wile of the devil that call that divided that God calls altogether as one.
How could the deaf hear the words of scripture found in the book prophecy unless a prophet declares it. How beautiful are the feet that bring the good news of prophecy, scripture, as it is written .
A parable of our salvation.
Isaiah 29:18And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.Revelation 22:19-21
It's okay to be odd (different than what is common). However, it seems that you are using that as an excuse for holding odd (aberrant) ideas. Your explanation above is clearly rooted in the Bible, in that you make reference to several Bible verses. However, you've mixed up the ideas, misquoted verses, and ended up with something that is not biblical.
You hold on to some ideas that are simply incompatible with Scripture, and despite the attempts of others to correct you with biblically-based arguments, you don't adjust your position. That's what stubborn and unteachable people do.
For example, when a prophet such as Jeremiah declared the unwritten word of God, straight from His mouth, he was "prophesying". Those words were recorded and became part of Scripture. Then, several thousand years later, when someone reads those words out loud; he is not prophesying, but only repeating the words previously prophesied. If you call the latter activity "prophesying", you are confusing the nature of prophecy and debasing the activity of the original speaker of those words. Further, you are calling every reader a prophet, and I cannot see how an unbeliever reading the word of God aloud could possibly be called a prophet.
You hold on to some ideas that are simply incompatible with Scripture, and despite the attempts of others to correct you with biblically-based arguments, you don't adjust your position. That's what stubborn and unteachable people do.
For example, when a prophet such as Jeremiah declared the unwritten word of God, straight from His mouth, he was "prophesying". Those words were recorded and became part of Scripture. Then, several thousand years later, when someone reads those words out loud; he is not prophesying, but only repeating the words previously prophesied. If you call the latter activity "prophesying", you are confusing the nature of prophecy and debasing the activity of the original speaker of those words. Further, you are calling every reader a prophet, and I cannot see how an unbeliever reading the word of God aloud could possibly be called a prophet.
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Scriptures concerning everyone's need to repent, be water baptized and receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost are there for all to see. Paul's epistles were written to those who followed the above command. Paul was still stating the need for obedience to such 25 years after Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-6)
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Wrong gospel? Funny that believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus and being obedient to the instructions given to the NT church are seen as going against the word.
Take heed because both Peter and Paul stated that not all obey(ed) the gospel. (1 Peter 4:17; Rom. 10:16) Thus how is one obedient to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus? The bible clearly instructs all to repent, be water baptized and receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost. That evidence is clearly seen in the word. Paul obeyed the command and his epistles were written to those who obeyed as well. Paul was still stating the need for obedience 25 years after Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-6)
Take heed because both Peter and Paul stated that not all obey(ed) the gospel. (1 Peter 4:17; Rom. 10:16) Thus how is one obedient to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus? The bible clearly instructs all to repent, be water baptized and receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost. That evidence is clearly seen in the word. Paul obeyed the command and his epistles were written to those who obeyed as well. Paul was still stating the need for obedience 25 years after Pentecost. (Acts 19:1-6)
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Believing/trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation is to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
The Oneness Pentecostal gospel of salvation by water baptism “in Jesus name only” and speaking in tongues is the wrong gospel. It’s a “different” gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:4)
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?”
The Oneness Pentecostal gospel of salvation by water baptism “in Jesus name only” and speaking in tongues is the wrong gospel. It’s a “different” gospel. (2 Corinthians 11:4)
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E
I believe in the gospel that all of them taught
Yu believe in a gospel of works. Which paul spent most of his ministry trying to destroy because it sent people the wrong way.
I believe I was washed and renewed by the spirit (titus 3) you believe you were washed by some mere human who needed washed himself. Replacing the work of God in your salvation.
My faith is in God. Your faith is in yourself and the man or woman who baptized you.
Yu believe in a gospel of works. Which paul spent most of his ministry trying to destroy because it sent people the wrong way.
I believe I was washed and renewed by the spirit (titus 3) you believe you were washed by some mere human who needed washed himself. Replacing the work of God in your salvation.
My faith is in God. Your faith is in yourself and the man or woman who baptized you.
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