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7seasrekeyed
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wasn't this thread originally about the Trinity doctrine...or lack thereof?
musta taken the wrong exit again
musta taken the wrong exit again
"... and the Word was GOd. ..."
- Thread starter RevAutrey
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No....you just did. It should have been quite obvious in my postings that there were many auditions and many failures.
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jaybird88
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jaybird88
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eternally-gratefull
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kaylagrl
Guest
Traveled in ministry for 20yrs. Been to a LOT more than 30 churches. You have confirmation bias. You're saying "all churches" are such and so. You can't prove any of what you're saying other than you went to a handful of churches. I've been in Pentecostal churches in two countries over 20yrs. In fact I've been in all denominations and I don't tar Baptists, Wesleyans, Nazarenes, Pentecostal etc. etc. with the same brush. Neither should you judge people according to an experience you had.
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kaylagrl
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jaybird88
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"nice try" ??? what in the world are you talking about? there has got to be one hundred plus times the Father is refereed to as "He" and not once anywhere refereed to as a "they".
let US in the Gen passage does not prove what you are trying to teach. the passage could just as easily be the Most High speaking to the Sons of the Most High, just the same as when you lead a group of men and say "let us go plow that field.
only twice do we have the the Father using this phrase and both times its followed by an action taking place down on our world. IMO this is the Father interacting with His council. just like He did when He sent the lying spirit.
the us could be the Father speaking to Himself, you never know, but the truth of it is there is nothing in that passage that says who He is talking to, your assuming He is talking to Himself. assumptions are not fact.
"let us" is used two times in all the scriptures by the Father. no where in scripture do you have Moses, Elijah, Jesus or anyone else calling the Father "they" or "them". three persons are a "they".
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jaybird88
Guest
i was referring to that teaching of Jesus and how He speaks of His Father. he does not call His Father "them" (three persons)
@jaybird88
57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:
4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
John 17:
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
1Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1:
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out
the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 44:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the
Almighty.
Revelation 1:
57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 8:
4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do.
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
John 17:
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.
20 He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you
1Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly
places,
4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1:
Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, who formed you from the womb: “I am the LORD, who made all things, who alone stretched out
the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself,
Isaiah 44:
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the
Almighty.
Revelation 1:
Hi Jaybird88, we were created in the image of our Creator, not in the image of the Creator AND the creature (the sons of the Most High are created beings, such as the elect angels).
As for the passage not proving that fact, while v26 may leave some doubt as to who "Us" and "Our" is referring to, the following verse (v27) clears that up nicely for us. There are also a number of other passages that continue to make clear Whose image we were created in, both in the OT and the New (and here are two of them, along with the Genesis 1 passage).
Genesis 1
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man, He made him in the likeness of God.
Genesis 9
6 Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man his blood shall be shed,
For in the image of God
He made man.
There are also other passages where God refers to Himself in the plural. Genesis 3:22, 11:7 come quickly to mind.
Passages such as these (that have God referring to Himself as, "Us" or "Our") were part of what led the church to create the doctrine of the Trinity. It was never meant as an attempt to "explain" the mystery to us (as if we could wrap our minds around it/understand it) because that is clearly beyond any of us, rather, the point of the doctrine is to circumscribe and safeguard the truth that the Bible teaches us about the Godhead.
~Deut
Matthew 22
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question:
42 “What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?” They said to Him, “The son of David.”
43 He said to them, “Then how does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying,
44 ‘THE LORD [YHWH] SAID TO MY LORD [Adonai],
“SIT AT MY RIGHT HAND,
UNTIL I PUT YOUR ENEMIES BENEATH YOUR FEET” ’?
45 “If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his son?”
46 No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.
.
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kaylagrl
Guest
I was in a pentecostal church for many years,it enlightened my understanding of the word and the fullness of the functions of the Holy Ghost! I am sorry you seem so bitter and lack forgiveness! This goes against scripture and I AM NON- JUDGEMENTAL!Gods fullness WILL ONLY be REVEALED to you if you quash self and fully allow Him to open your eyes to ALL the TRUTH in His world.Prayers to His ears for the hurt you cant seem to get over" Let go, and let God". Peace!
I AM NON- JUDGEMENTALI was in a pentecostal church for many years,it enlightened my understanding of the word and the fullness of the functions of the Holy Ghost! I am sorry you seem so bitter and lack forgiveness! This goes against scripture and I AM NON- JUDGEMENTAL!Gods fullness WILL ONLY be REVEALED to you if you quash self and fully allow Him to open your eyes to ALL the TRUTH in His world.Prayers to His ears for the hurt you cant seem to get over" Let go, and let God". Peace!
Fortunately or not, I am either blessed or tormented with an extremely poignant case of the gift of "discernment" .
I was once on a certain Forum that didn't allow the use of titles, such as Rev., Pastor, Bishop, etc.. Now I see it was a good idea.
I have never liked the term reverend as applied unto men....there is only one to be revered.....and men are not it....!!!
I look at it like when we're dreaming. We have our" dream self " and then a physical body sleeping. The same, yet different. However that's very simplified bc Father and Jesus are actually different, but the same. :/ The Father knows things that jesus does not like the day /time the end with occur.
In the beginning was the "word." God's word is so strong he spoke the world into existence. But then you have Jesus, God's personal message to us in everything he said and did.
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jaybird88
Guest
the problem with all this is there is nothing in those passages to confirm the Father is speaking to Himself when using the term "US", He could just as easily be speaking to someone else. your using a doctrine to confirm this and thats not the proper way to establish biblical facts.
another fact which i have already mentioned, not one person refers to the Father as they, not anywhere in scripture. Moses, Elijah, Isiah, those guys were pretty smart, did they just not get it? i think they got it much better than most do today.
i thknk its also interesting that in the days that Jesus was teaching there were crowds of Jews that followed Him everywhere, several hundred years later, around the same time this doctrine popped up, now Jews will have nothing to do with the faith. what a coincidence.