Faith is a work.

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#81
Now I understand you needing to accommodate your Campbellism theories, but this is ridiculous!
mailmandan,
Since you mentioned Cambellism, you might want to start a thread on their erroneous beliefs. Chances are many Christians are not familiar with the Campbelliites.

If I am not mistaken they claim that (1) faith is a WORK, (2) repentance is a WORK, and (3) water baptism is NECESSARY for salvation. All of this thoroughly undermines the finished work of Christ.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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#82
You can't have faith + works just like you can't have your cake and eat it too LOL.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#84
Faith is specifically defined in Hebrews 11:1.

We are saved by grace received through faith. Grace cannot be earned but God gives it out of love and mercy to those who will receive it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,572
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#85
The works of God that he has commanded. Like John 6:29. Can you boast about faith?
John 6:29 is simply a play on words by Jesus when he said, "This is the work (singular) of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent," when He answered the Jews (who were taking a legalistic approach) when they asked, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works (plural) of God?" So Jesus was not saying that believing is just another work in a series of works in a quest to receive salvation by works or it would contradict Ephesians 2:8,9. *Note the distinction between faith and works - "saved through faith, not works."

Now believing is clearly not a work that merits salvation. Through believing, we are completely trusting in "Another's work," (Christ's finished work of redemption). Through believing, Christ is the OBJECT of our complete trust in receiving salvation. Good works which "follow" believing unto salvation are the fruit of salvation, but not the root of it and if good works which follow believing were the basis or means by which we obtain salvation, that would add merit on our part in obtaining salvation because then we would be saved through believing based on the merits of Christ's finished work of redemption "plus our works." You can't have it both ways.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#86
You can't have faith + works just like you can't have your cake and eat it too LOL.

Galatians 2:16 (KJV) Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Yes by the work of Christ's faith that works in us .So that we might do the works twords him .

Of Christ and in Christ must be distinguished or we do blaspheme His name.

Can't separated the plan of the Faithful Creator from the execution .Let there be as the work revealed . . . . . and it was good.

You cannot have the faith of Christ (God's Faith) that faithfully works in us in respect to one self . According to the commandment that many seem to by pass in James 2. God has faith and needs it in order to work ..To say he does not work by faith according to its conclusion verse 7. that would be blaspheming the Holy name we are called by . People seem to miss the spiritual application and make it into a fashion clothing design . Wearing clothing is not blasphemy.

We are saved by works just not that of our own selves by but rather of Christ who worked together with the father to bring us the peace of God (both the father and the Son) the Same spirit of faith that works in us.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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#87
According to the commandment that many seem to by pass in James 2. God has faith and needs it in order to work ..To say he does not work by faith according to its conclusion verse 7. that would be blaspheming the Holy name we are called by.
This is a very concerning statement of yours, can you clarify? I take it you are trying to say, 'God needs OUR faith in order to work', in which I would also disagree as He chooses to sometimes work through our faith.
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#88
To say we are not saved by works is to say we are not saved by faith because the Bible says faith is a work. John 6:29.

To say we are not saved by works is misleading. There are at least 3 or 4 different kinds of works talked about in the Bible. Some works we are not saved by are the works of the Old Testament law of Moses. Galatians. To try to be justified by these you will fall from Grace. Another kind of work are the ones men boast about ( boastful works) these are works that come from men. That ORIGINATE with men. These are not works of God. Some that come to mind are “playing ball for Jesus” or selling chicken dinners to raise money for a good cause. Did Jesus tell you to do these things? Then they didn’t come from him. And we know they were boastful works because in the scene in the gospels when Jesus turns these people away they say “...but Lord we have Done many mighty works in your name. But he will say depart from me you who work lawlessness ( without law or authority from God.) there are other works mentioned in the Bible ( works of the flesh-Galatians) but the most important one you need to remember is that there are also works of God. These works are those that come from God not men and they are commanded by God and they are approved by God. Faith is this kind of wrk in John 6:29. In fact, the Holy Spirit says this is the work of God that you believe. So you are misleading people to say we are not saved by works at all. Plus you are contradicting yourself if you turn around and say we are saved by faith. Mark 12:24- “you do err not knowing the scriptures.”
Many today don't like works. It requires effort and who has time for that. Grace only makes it easier, makes the faith into one of those little things you add to your life with all the other things. Much more convenient.
 

Skyline

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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#89
The Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 13:39; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9 1 John 5:13 etc..). You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words, "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.

Works-salvationists often get tripped up over James 2:24 because they ignore the CONTEXT - James 2:14-24. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims they have faith but has no works (to evidence their claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

*Don't conflate faith that "trusts in Christ alone for salvation" (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9) with an "empty profession of faith/dead faith" that "remains alone - barren of works." (James 2:14-24)

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works are evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

So man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :)
THANK YOU so much for this post. I really needed to read this.

I reaffirmed my faith several weeks back after a childhood conversion. Have been reading scripture a lot and various books. Two of them I loved (How Can I Be Sure I'm a Christian? and Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life by Donald Whitney) but recently read Crazy Love (Chan). Not knowing what Lordship & Works based salvation was I went in blind. What I was reading did not speak to what I was reading in scripture in its full context, its overall message of it being a gift, what I was seeing in real Christians I knew (they were not radical abandoning family, safety, etc.). I had been having an internal battle for a while and praying for direction - I stumbled upon this forum and this thread specifically.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#90
THANK YOU so much for this post. I really needed to read this.

I reaffirmed my faith several weeks back after a childhood conversion. Have been reading scripture a lot and various books. Two of them I loved (How Can I Be Sure I'm a Christian? and Spiritual Disciplines for the Christian Life by Donald Whitney) but recently read Crazy Love (Chan). Not knowing what Lordship & Works based salvation was I went in blind. What I was reading did not speak to what I was reading in scripture in its full context, its overall message of it being a gift, what I was seeing in real Christians I knew (they were not radical abandoning family, safety, etc.). I had been having an internal battle for a while and praying for direction - I stumbled upon this forum and this thread specifically.
You are very welcome and God bless you! :)
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#91
This is a very concerning statement of yours, can you clarify? I take it you are trying to say, 'God needs OUR faith in order to work', in which I would also disagree as He chooses to sometimes work through our faith.

God needs His faith in order to work out his will . Its what' works in us having none of our own.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#92
Many today don't like works. It requires effort and who has time for that. Grace only makes it easier, makes the faith into one of those little things you add to your life with all the other things. Much more convenient.
We are saved by the grace of Christ as a result of the works of Christ our Faithfull Creator and not that of our own . Previously having none (no faith)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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#93
God needs His faith in order to work out his will . Its what' works in us having none of our own.
I was afraid initially that's what you meant, but just wanted to ask to make sure.

Why would God need (His) faith? Isn't He all knowing? All powerful? Everywhere present.?
Could you show me in Scripture where it states or reveals that 'God needs His faith?

Perhaps faith is created in us when a promise of God is given?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#94
I was afraid initially that's what you meant, but just wanted to ask to make sure.

Why would God need (His) faith? Isn't He all knowing? All powerful? Everywhere present.?
Could you show me in Scripture where it states or reveals that 'God needs His faith?

Perhaps faith is created in us when a promise of God is given?
Yes he gives us His faith so that we can believe His promise. it is the work of God that we can believe Him.

Perhaps whose faith is created in us seeing we have none not little?

What would you be afraid of?

Don't you think our Faithfull Creator needs a plan before he says "let there be" ? Some assume God does not have faith or need it. As in things just happen... take the good with the bad..

The question is what if some believe not and do not exercise the faith that God is working in them .Would their work of denying make His faith without effect.?

To affect something is to work it out. . If the work of denying the faith of Christ make the work of Christ to no effect to those who do believe . How could we ever let God be true and every man a lair .If a liar make his faith useless? How could we believe

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans3:3-4
 

Skyline

Active member
Jun 13, 2019
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#95
Was reading scripture today and came upon Mark 10:15; again I am “new” but this is my opinion.

Mark 10:15
“15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Being a dad this really hits home. My little boy does not accept a gift only to try to repay me with works, or earn it; instead he loves/appreciates the gift, and it being from me. He may give me a kiss/hug to thank me, his trust in me may grow, but I do not expect anything in return.

Ephesians 2:8-9
“8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.”

God bless :)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
3,679
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#96
Yes he gives us His faith so that we can believe His promise. it is the work of God that we can believe Him.

Perhaps whose faith is created in us seeing we have none not little?

What would you be afraid of?

Don't you think our Faithfull Creator needs a plan before he says "let there be" ? Some assume God does not have faith or need it. As in things just happen... take the good with the bad..

The question is what if some believe not and do not exercise the faith that God is working in them .Would their work of denying make His faith without effect.?

To affect something is to work it out. . If the work of denying the faith of Christ make the work of Christ to no effect to those who do believe . How could we ever let God be true and every man a lair .If a liar make his faith useless? How could we believe

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Romans3:3-4
God needs His faith in order to work out his will . Its what' works in us having none of our own.
I won't go any further until you show me where you get this from in Scripture.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#97
Was reading scripture today and came upon Mark 10:15; again I am “new” but this is my opinion.

Mark 10:15
“15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Being a dad this really hits home. My little boy does not accept a gift only to try to repay me with works, or earn it; instead he loves/appreciates the gift, and it being from me. He may give me a kiss/hug to thank me, his trust in me may grow, but I do not expect anything in return.

Ephesians 2:8-9
“8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.”

God bless :)

Yes before children reach that age where they become accountable by reason of their consciousnesses sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law but after a person becomes aware that they are sinning sin Is Imputed but after JESUS changed the old covenant to the new covenant sin Is no longer the Issue but faith Is now the Issue.

And further children don’t think a certain way In their hearts that Is totally deceptive to what the world sees.Adults do this.
IE
A person may not like their boss but when the boss comes around they will smile and look at the boss a way to deceive the boss to think they really like him/her knowing that they can’t be honest because of possible negative consequences.

JESUS said that no one can come to HIM unless the FATHER that sent me draw him meaning you have to be sincere.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#98
Was reading scripture today and came upon Mark 10:15; again I am “new” but this is my opinion.

Mark 10:15
“15 Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.”

Being a dad this really hits home. My little boy does not accept a gift only to try to repay me with works, or earn it; instead he loves/appreciates the gift, and it being from me. He may give me a kiss/hug to thank me, his trust in me may grow, but I do not expect anything in return.

Ephesians 2:8-9
“8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.”

God bless :)
Amen

People forget. We re not given the spirit of fear. But of adoption, whereby we cry out “Abba Father”
 
J

jaybird88

Guest
#99
We are saved by the grace of Christ as a result of the works of Christ our Faithfull Creator and not that of our own . Previously having none (no faith)
Exactly, He worked so we would not have to or another way to say it is he came to show us exactly how not to do it. Makes no sense to me but but people see what they want to see.
 

ralfyman

New member
Jun 15, 2019
11
1
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Jesus' two greatest commandments refer to faith and work.