Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Do you believe then, that Jesus lied when He said, "... every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven."
All sins will be forgiven to man once he stops sinning, but if he continues sinning, then he cannot be forgiven. This is why Paul said, "if we deliberately keep on sinning there no longer remains sacrifice for sin". This is why the Messiah said, "sin no more, let something worse come upon you". We are called to "stop sinning". This is not difficult to understand.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
All sins will be forgiven to man once he stops sinning, but if he continues sinning, then he cannot be forgiven. This is why Paul said, "if we deliberately keep on sinning there no longer remains sacrifice for sin". This is why the Messiah said, "sin no more, let something worse come upon you". We are called to "stop sinning". This is not difficult to understand.
Your claim is that we must become perfectly sinless before we can know we are saved? My Bible does not say that. My Bible says that any who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved, and that all who believe in Jesus shall not perish, but attain to/have eternal life.

 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Adam received that "knowledge of sin". Fear of that knowledge has plagued mankind ever since until Jesus provided the escape route. You are still held bound by a "sin consciousness" that is devastating, a powerful inhibition towards service of God's kingdom.
What you are missing is the New Covenant links back to Abraham, not to Moses. Abraham was the man of faith, not Moses. God gave the eternal promises to Abraham, and left Moses with the curses. So by choosing Moses, you are cursed with all who do that.
I am of the faith children according to inheritance of the children of Abraham. His children were not all of the Law 430 years later, but his bridge over Moses to Jesus. Moses was but a holding point, an intermediator unto Christ. All he could do was keep Israel aware of sin without a remedy, except a year to year covering of sins by the blood of animals. It was all finished in Jesus' blood.

Jesus jumped the Abrahamic Covenant past the Mosaic over to His New Covenant. You are caught in the middle.

The Torah, being delivered from God, to the Hebrew slaves, through Moses was for those Hebrews. No Gentiles should have to comprehend all that to fast-forward to Jesus. The whole of scriptures beyond the Torah (Pentateuch, books Gen-Deu) deal with the balance of God's glorious plan of salvation incrementally, ending in Christ Jesus. You are still way back there.

I realize now this is probably anathema to you, but I will advocate for the rest of God's world with repetition of His word.

Galatians 3:1-29 (KJV)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Christians are not the seed of anything Moses. Abraham was before and now after Moses, unto Christ.
Without knowledge of sin you cannot know what sin you must stop doing, hence "my people perish for lack of knowledge".
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
All the tribes of Israel went into 70 years of slavery in Babylon for disobeying God. The ultimate result was rejection of God's Son and destruction of everything "Jew" in AD70. It happened again and again along with the German Holocaust, and continued antisemitism. They of the Law continued to exist under the curse of God. I choose to live under the blessings of Christ Jesus, who died to the curses, and arose to the blessings.

I do realize you are bound under a great and powerful curse administered by Satan, so will try to be a little sympathetic.
You cannot live under the blessings of the new covenant by discarding the Torah, because ultimately the Messiah taught, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "whoever sets aside the least of these commands will be called least in the kingdom of God".
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
You cannot live under the blessings of the new covenant by discarding the Torah, because ultimately the Messiah taught, "I did not come to abolish the Torah" and "whoever sets aside the least of these commands will be called least in the kingdom of God".
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. The law remains to condemn those who are not covered by His blood, and are therefore under the law.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Word salad. Pass the mayo, please. Do you still sin? Or do you claim sinless perfectionism through your own efforts of self-righteousness?
Even if I say, "I do not sin", you will not believe that what I am saying is the truth, that we must all stop sinning, myself included, according to what the scriptures tell us.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
Even if I say, "I do not sin", you will not believe that what I am saying is the truth, that we must all stop sinning, myself included, according to what the scriptures tell us.
Scripture itself would call you a liar if you say you do not sin.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Your claim is that we must become perfectly sinless before we can know we are saved? My Bible does not say that. My Bible says that any who call upon the Name of the Lord will be saved, and that all who believe in Jesus shall not perish, but attain to/have eternal life.

Your bible does say that, hence why the Messiah himself said "be perfect" and "sin no more". Even before perfection came through the new covenant, Abraham was also told "walk before me and be perfect, that I may make my covenant with you". Perfection is required of us. The Messiah didn't die to justify our continual lawlessness, he died so that we may become perfected, through his blood, and become the true righteousness of God, without spot and wrinkle.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
Your bible does say that, hence why the Messiah himself said "be perfect" and "sin no more". Even before perfection came through the new covenant, Abraham was also told "walk before me and be perfect, that I may make my covenant with you". Perfection is required of us. The Messiah didn't die to justify our continual lawlessness, he died so that we may become perfected, through his blood, and become the true righteousness of God, without spot and wrinkle.
It is not our spotlessness that saves us, but HIS. Perfect simply means complete. Not what you say :censored:
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. The law remains to condemn those who are not covered by His blood, and are therefore under the law.
Because those who are TRULY in the Messiah Yeshuah have been set free from sin. But if you live your whole life thinking the Torah that defines what sin is has been discarded, you can NEVER attain freedom from sin, because the lie you believe in prevents you from reaching that freedom. Therefore, you become condemned by the very Torah you claim to not be under, because you are still a slave to sin, whose power is the Torah. This is why the Messiah said, "whoever sins is a slave to sin, but if the son sets you free, you will be free indeed".
 

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
I'm just here to watch good people fight the good fight

Or, even good people spent decades in darkness before that "good people" found the light
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
Scripture itself would call you a liar if you say you do not sin.
No, scripture would call me a liar if I said "I never sinned in the past". At one point in our lives, we must stop sinning, hence "whoever is born of God cannot sin". You have twisted one scripture to mean we cannot stop sinning, when it is clear from scripture we can, and that we must.
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
It is not our spotlessness that saves us, but HIS. Perfect simply means complete. Not what you say :censored:
This is what the scriptures say,

Whoever commits sin is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God commits sin, for the seed of God abides in him; and he cannot commit sin, because he has been born of God.
1 John 3:8-9

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

We know that every one born of God does not sin; but the one born of God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18

These scriptures are very plain and straightforward. It never ceases to amaze me how people refuse to accept the truth of what these scriptures are saying, that we must stop sinning. Unbelievable.

http://www.wisdomofgod.us/2019/01/11/perfection-through-belief-in-yeshuah-by-the-airflow-of-god/
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
Because those who are TRULY in the Messiah Yeshuah have been set free from sin. But if you live your whole life thinking the Torah that defines what sin is has been discarded, you can NEVER attain freedom from sin, because the lie you believe in prevents you from reaching that freedom. Therefore, you become condemned by the very Torah you claim to not be under, because you are still a slave to sin, whose power is the Torah. This is why the Messiah said, "whoever sins is a slave to sin, but if the son sets you free, you will be free indeed".
My God has written the law on my heart. That is Scriptural. I'm sorry you don't believe it. I have attained the righteousness of Christ through faith, not grasped for my own righteousness to be saved. The law remains to condemn those who are still under it. Under the curse of the law. All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: ‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.’
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
My God has written the law on my heart. That is Scriptural. I'm sorry you don' believe it. I have attained the righteousness of Christ through faith, not grasped for my own righteousness to be saved.
If that were true, then you would agree that the Torah has not been discarded, because anyone who has the Torah of God written in his heart will obey the Torah, hence,

And I will give you a new heart, and a new airflow I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my airflow within you, and CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUES AND BE CAREFUL TO OBEY MY JUDGMENTS.
Ezekiel 36:26-27

The statues and judgments of God are written in his Torah. As such, like I said, the written Torah of God is never discarded, neither in the old covenant, nor in the new covenant.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
No, scripture would call me a liar if I said "I never sinned in the past". At one point in our lives, we must stop sinning, hence "whoever is born of God cannot sin". You have twisted one scripture to mean we cannot stop sinning, when it is clear from scripture we can, and that we must.
That is NOT what Scripture says. YOU twist the plain words.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Scripture says, Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am cleansed from my sin"? While you claim to have none! Scripture says, there is no one who does not sin. It also says, As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one."
 
Jun 4, 2019
183
12
18
That is NOT what Scripture says. YOU twist the plain words.

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

It is the blood of Jesus that cleanses us from sin.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Scripture says, Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am cleansed from my sin"? While you claim to have none! Scripture says, there is no one who does not sin. It also says, As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one."
Saying we have stopped sinning is not the same as saying that I have never sinned. Why is this distinction so difficult for you to understand? I know why, because you do not want to entertain the possibility that you can stop sinning, because ultimately you do not want to stop sinning, so you would rather believe a lie that you cannot stop sinning, rather than believe the truth that you can stop sinning and that we are required to stop sinning.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
Saying we have stopped sinning is not the same as saying that I have never sinned. Why is this distinction so difficult for you to understand? I know why, because you do not want to entertain the possibility that you can stop sinning, because ultimately you do not want to stop sinning, so you would rather believe a lie that you cannot stop sinning, rather than believe the truth that you can stop sinning and that we are required to stop sinning.
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh?

Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”
 

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
Jun 11, 2018
3,344
3,720
113
68
And I will give you a new heart, and a new airflow I will put within you.
Which translation uses "airflow" instead of "spirit" in Ezekiel 36:26?

Thanks!

~Deut
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,296
113
Saying we have stopped sinning is not the same as saying that I have never sinned. Why is this distinction so difficult for you to understand?
Your lies notwithstanding, I do understand the distinction.

I know why, because you do not want to entertain the possibility that you can stop sinning, because ultimately you do not want to stop sinning, so you would rather believe a lie that you cannot stop sinning, rather than believe the truth that you can stop sinning and that we are required to stop sinning.
I notice you like to throw slanderous statements around. Is that what you classify as being perfect/not sinning? How odd.