Did Jesus ever tell us that we no longer need to keep the law of Moses?
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Up to...not before or after. ""UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSES AWAY, not one jot or one tittle will pass away from the Torah"
That speaks of the "perfect" as in 'complete ' as one law is made up of two whole the two became one perfect . The law (jots and titles) kills as it is written and the "law of faith" the work of Christ's faith or labor of His love not seen mixes together .Together they perform the complete or perfect. Separate they do nothing as to creating life.
The wage of sin eternal will not come upon new creatures they will not come into condemnation. That wage was paid in full imputed to us, The letter of the law as to the temporal
"UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSES AWAY, not one jot or one tittle as that seen . Break written law go to jail. It is part of the law that governs the morals on earth .The law of faith governs the unseen eternal Like love and marriage can't have the law of faith that heals unless a person first realizes they are dead in their trespasses without faith needed to believe God
Again perfect .Mixing faith when hearing the Jots and the tittles (letter of the law) with the unseen holy place .The spirit of the law Faith
Psalm 19:6-8 King James Version (KJV) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.The law of the Lord is perfect, "converting the soul": the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The statutes of the Lord are right, "rejoicing the heart": the commandment of the Lord is pure, "enlightening the eyes".
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
That speaks of the "perfect" as in 'complete ' as one law is made up of two whole the two became one perfect . The law (jots and titles) kills as it is written and the "law of faith" the work of Christ's faith or labor of His love not seen mixes together .Together they perform the complete or perfect. Separate they do nothing as to creating life.
The wage of sin eternal will not come upon new creatures they will not come into condemnation. That wage was paid in full imputed to us, The letter of the law as to the temporal
"UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASSES AWAY, not one jot or one tittle as that seen . Break written law go to jail. It is part of the law that governs the morals on earth .The law of faith governs the unseen eternal Like love and marriage can't have the law of faith that heals unless a person first realizes they are dead in their trespasses without faith needed to believe God
Again perfect .Mixing faith when hearing the Jots and the tittles (letter of the law) with the unseen holy place .The spirit of the law Faith
Psalm 19:6-8 King James Version (KJV) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.The law of the Lord is perfect, "converting the soul": the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.The statutes of the Lord are right, "rejoicing the heart": the commandment of the Lord is pure, "enlightening the eyes".
Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
False and unbiblical.
We receive God’s anointing (the indwelling Holy Spirit) by faith in Jesus Christ. At the same time, we are made righteous in God’s sight by faith in Jesus Christ. Obedience to the Law is not part if the equation.
The idea that our own self-achieved righteousness (obedience to the Law) garners God’s anointing is a false gospel.
We receive God’s anointing (the indwelling Holy Spirit) by faith in Jesus Christ. At the same time, we are made righteous in God’s sight by faith in Jesus Christ. Obedience to the Law is not part if the equation.
The idea that our own self-achieved righteousness (obedience to the Law) garners God’s anointing is a false gospel.
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Belief is useless if you do not obey. Why else do you think Paul said, "adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God", if not because they disobey the command "you shall not commit adultery"? Belief must then be accompanied by obedience, for if obedience was not necessary, then adulterers and thieves can remain adulterers and thieves and inherit the kingdom of God no different than those who turned from their evil ways. You err in your understanding of pretty much... everything.
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I think it is helpful to grasp what Romans 2 is covering... (see especially v.12)... which is the section about how the Jews had the Law, and the Gentiles did not have the Law (both being "guilty" before God)... here's a snip of commentary by Gaebelein on Romans 2:
[quoting]
"Romans 2:7-16
"God is righteous and He will render every man according to his deeds. Then two classes are mentioned. The first are those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, and to that class God will give eternal life. (Eternal life is here not, as in John’s Gospel a present possession. but is that to be entered in after death.) How is this to be applied? Does this answer the question how man is to be saved? it does not, but it is the question of God’s moral government. Man in his unconverted state cannot obtain eternal life by patient continuance in well doing, for we read later that God’s Word declares “there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” Man cannot seek for glory for it is written, “there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God” (3:11). On these terms no human being can obtain eternal life. Man is a sinner and all the wages he can earn is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (6:23). If eternal life is received by faith in Jesus Christ then man is able to do right and live the life that pleases God. Then there is the other class; those who obey not the truth, who live in unrighteousness, who reject His Word. Indignation and wrath is in store for such and this is the condition in which Jews and Gentiles are by nature “Among whom also we (Jews) all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath even as others (Gentiles)” (Ephesians 2:3). God states in these verses the principles on which He judges according to man’s works, and as man is a sinner and cannot do good works, man is therefore under condemnation.
"And likewise there is no respect of persons with God. The Jew may boast of a higher place than the Gentile, but God deals with all alike. The Gentiles had not the law and therefore sinned without law and they cannot escape the righteous judgment of God. They had the witness in Creation, as seen from the first chapter, and besides this there is conscience and that witnesses of what is sin; they have the knowledge of good and evil and are therefore morally responsible. They turned from God and they will be judged apart from the law; but it is more than that “they shall perish without the law.” That completely answers the teaching that the mercy of God covers in some way the heathen world and that the heathen are not lost. And the Jews had the law and did not keep it. Could the possession of the Law make them just before God? Certainly not, “for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse, for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the law to do them” (Galatians 3:10). And theirs will be the greater judgment, for they knew His will and did not according to His will and shall be beaten with many stripes (Luke 12:47). The entire passage deals with the judgment of a righteous God and that neither the Gentile without the law nor the Jew with the law is righteous before God, but that both classes must fall under the judgment of God. And there is a day appointed when this righteous judgment will be executed by the Son of Man, our Lord. And that none can be just by doing is seen in Paul’s defense of the Gospel."
--Gaebelein, Romans 2 Commentary [source: Bible Hub]
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
[quoting]
"Romans 2:7-16
"God is righteous and He will render every man according to his deeds. Then two classes are mentioned. The first are those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, and to that class God will give eternal life. (Eternal life is here not, as in John’s Gospel a present possession. but is that to be entered in after death.) How is this to be applied? Does this answer the question how man is to be saved? it does not, but it is the question of God’s moral government. Man in his unconverted state cannot obtain eternal life by patient continuance in well doing, for we read later that God’s Word declares “there is none that doeth good, no, not one.” Man cannot seek for glory for it is written, “there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God” (3:11). On these terms no human being can obtain eternal life. Man is a sinner and all the wages he can earn is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (6:23). If eternal life is received by faith in Jesus Christ then man is able to do right and live the life that pleases God. Then there is the other class; those who obey not the truth, who live in unrighteousness, who reject His Word. Indignation and wrath is in store for such and this is the condition in which Jews and Gentiles are by nature “Among whom also we (Jews) all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath even as others (Gentiles)” (Ephesians 2:3). God states in these verses the principles on which He judges according to man’s works, and as man is a sinner and cannot do good works, man is therefore under condemnation.
"And likewise there is no respect of persons with God. The Jew may boast of a higher place than the Gentile, but God deals with all alike. The Gentiles had not the law and therefore sinned without law and they cannot escape the righteous judgment of God. They had the witness in Creation, as seen from the first chapter, and besides this there is conscience and that witnesses of what is sin; they have the knowledge of good and evil and are therefore morally responsible. They turned from God and they will be judged apart from the law; but it is more than that “they shall perish without the law.” That completely answers the teaching that the mercy of God covers in some way the heathen world and that the heathen are not lost. And the Jews had the law and did not keep it. Could the possession of the Law make them just before God? Certainly not, “for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.” “For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse, for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the law to do them” (Galatians 3:10). And theirs will be the greater judgment, for they knew His will and did not according to His will and shall be beaten with many stripes (Luke 12:47). The entire passage deals with the judgment of a righteous God and that neither the Gentile without the law nor the Jew with the law is righteous before God, but that both classes must fall under the judgment of God. And there is a day appointed when this righteous judgment will be executed by the Son of Man, our Lord. And that none can be just by doing is seen in Paul’s defense of the Gospel."
--Gaebelein, Romans 2 Commentary [source: Bible Hub]
[end quoting; bold and underline mine]
Hi Marcelo, all those verses tell us is that the Apostle Paul didn't learn about the Christian faith from the other Apostles. Rather, he spent three years in Arabia after his conversion preparing for the ministry that the Lord had called him to .. Acts 9:15-16, leaning by direct revelation from Jesus.
Following the three years of preparation, he hardly remained isolated from the other Apostles, as we learn from Galatians 1:18 (as well passages like the ones I posited from Acts and 2 Peter in my last post and others).
~Deut
Following the three years of preparation, he hardly remained isolated from the other Apostles, as we learn from Galatians 1:18 (as well passages like the ones I posited from Acts and 2 Peter in my last post and others).
~Deut
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Adam received that "knowledge of sin". Fear of that knowledge has plagued mankind ever since until Jesus provided the escape route. You are still held bound by a "sin consciousness" that is devastating, a powerful inhibition towards service of God's kingdom.
What you are missing is the New Covenant links back to Abraham, not to Moses. Abraham was the man of faith, not Moses. God gave the eternal promises to Abraham, and left Moses with the curses. So by choosing Moses, you are cursed with all who do that.
I am of the faith children according to inheritance of the children of Abraham. His children were not all of the Law 430 years later, but his bridge over Moses to Jesus. Moses was but a holding point, an intermediator unto Christ. All he could do was keep Israel aware of sin without a remedy, except a year to year covering of sins by the blood of animals. It was all finished in Jesus' blood.
Jesus jumped the Abrahamic Covenant past the Mosaic over to His New Covenant. You are caught in the middle.
The Torah, being delivered from God, to the Hebrew slaves, through Moses was for those Hebrews. No Gentiles should have to comprehend all that to fast-forward to Jesus. The whole of scriptures beyond the Torah (Pentateuch, books Gen-Deu) deal with the balance of God's glorious plan of salvation incrementally, ending in Christ Jesus. You are still way back there.
I realize now this is probably anathema to you, but I will advocate for the rest of God's world with repetition of His word.
Galatians 3:1-29 (KJV)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Christians are not the seed of anything Moses. Abraham was before and now after Moses, unto Christ.
What you are missing is the New Covenant links back to Abraham, not to Moses. Abraham was the man of faith, not Moses. God gave the eternal promises to Abraham, and left Moses with the curses. So by choosing Moses, you are cursed with all who do that.
I am of the faith children according to inheritance of the children of Abraham. His children were not all of the Law 430 years later, but his bridge over Moses to Jesus. Moses was but a holding point, an intermediator unto Christ. All he could do was keep Israel aware of sin without a remedy, except a year to year covering of sins by the blood of animals. It was all finished in Jesus' blood.
Jesus jumped the Abrahamic Covenant past the Mosaic over to His New Covenant. You are caught in the middle.
The Torah, being delivered from God, to the Hebrew slaves, through Moses was for those Hebrews. No Gentiles should have to comprehend all that to fast-forward to Jesus. The whole of scriptures beyond the Torah (Pentateuch, books Gen-Deu) deal with the balance of God's glorious plan of salvation incrementally, ending in Christ Jesus. You are still way back there.
I realize now this is probably anathema to you, but I will advocate for the rest of God's world with repetition of His word.
Galatians 3:1-29 (KJV)
1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Christians are not the seed of anything Moses. Abraham was before and now after Moses, unto Christ.
All the tribes of Israel went into 70 years of slavery in Babylon for disobeying God. The ultimate result was rejection of God's Son and destruction of everything "Jew" in AD70. It happened again and again along with the German Holocaust, and continued antisemitism. They of the Law continued to exist under the curse of God. I choose to live under the blessings of Christ Jesus, who died to the curses, and arose to the blessings.
I do realize you are bound under a great and powerful curse administered by Satan, so will try to be a little sympathetic.
I do realize you are bound under a great and powerful curse administered by Satan, so will try to be a little sympathetic.
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Righteousness IS obedience to the commands of God, hence, "and if we are careful to obey these commandments of God this will be our righteousness". Even Abraham, whose righteousness was based on belief, was commended for obeying the commandments and TORAH of God even before it was given through Moses, "because Abraham obeyed my voice and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my Torah". Belief must yield obedience to the commandments of God, otherwise it is null. You err in your understanding of the truth, and think you do not need to obey what God has instructed, which is the very definition of lawlessness.
