Does James 2:17 Speak for All of the New Testament?

[garee]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?"

I would offer . So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" That faith is representing a faith coming from his own self. It is in reference to the opening commandment of chapter 2 ...not to have the faith of Christ in respect to the work of Christ in respect to what the eyes see.

We are warned in 1 John 2:27-28 that it is the motive of operation for the father of lies, the spirit of the antichrist..... teaching ….A man seen must teach you as the good teacher (infallible) as place reserved for our father not seen (Blasphemy) .Again even Jesus resisted standing in the Holy Place of the father. as a daysman or what we would call today a Pope.

I do agree with the use of "that faith" as a kind but it does not say that, it says; can faith save him. We understand it can.. our Faithful and True Savior demonstrated his labor of love or work of His faith. Pouring out His Holy Spirit on mankind in anticipation of His eternal bride.

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?.James 2:14

Many will claim to have faith .But are they having the faith of God that comes from hearing his voice as he gives the churches, believers, ears to make it possible. Or the many who said they had faith but proved to have none as a sign of unbelief.( faithlessness. )??

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.Mathew 7:22-23

Notice he never said they did not perform the wonderful or faithful works. He is confirming he is not served by human hands, as a will.

He can bring an Ass used to typfy unbelif in mankind to bring his living word it cannot return void of the purpose in which he sends it. it faithfully worked to stop the madness of that false prophet Balaam.

Workers of iniquity are self motivated . Like below. A private interpretation . Unlike the prophets of old moved to do the will of the holy Spirit not seen.

Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

Free will is having the power to do the will of God. Why subject oneself to the god of this world as eye servants ? It is not the kind of food needed to please or father in heaven. His Son finished all the work needed to appease the wrath of God as the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Salvation is by faith alone. Nothing else. Faith is a work of the Holy Spirit effecting regeneration in the person.
Works are the evidence of faith. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin and truth, and then grants the faith to believe and believing causes one to confess and profess. If a person has faith they will their after engage in works, because works is the natural out come of faith. Faith causes works; Not works of the law as we know it but works of believing and faith. Which can be anything that is obedience to God from putting down addictions and habits to wittnessing and testifying literally any outward sign of obedience to God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James is not contradicting the Lord as Paul reports God's ways or Moses reports God's ways. We are told clearly that God does no look at our acts or works when God gives us salvation. So we are told that it was the faith of Abraham that resulted in Abraham's salvation. James did not tell us any differently.

As we study Abraham's ways further, we find that becaise of this faith in the lord Abraham acted in certain ways. We know it must have taken complete faith in God to prompt Abraham to act the way he did. We can learn from that that faith results in actions. But it is still true that it is not the actions of Abraham that led to his salvation but the faith.

No

James does not contridict paul or th elord. Because James is not preaching that works saves. He is preaching that people walking the earth going to churhc who CLAIM to have faith. But are hearers only and not doers. Their faith is dead.

Look at it this way

Pauls arguments were against legalists who taught we had to add works to be saved. And to them, Our salvation was not completed until the works were completed. And even then could be lost.

He also used Abraham as an example. As he was saved BEFORE he did one work.


James audience were licentious. Who thought we could say a prayer with no faith, at all. Meaning there ws no repentance to begin with. and we are saved no matter what.

He also used Abraham as an example. By showing how Abraham still was saved by his faith, But unlike the people he spoke to. Abrahams faith was REAL showed by his works.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to evidence his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine.

In James 2:20, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works (which is like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit) and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith "made perfect" or "complete" by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It doesn't mean that Abraham was finally saved based on the merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

What is it with people thinking any work they do can lead to their salvation? I will never understand it.

 

[newton3003]

No

James does not contridict paul or th elord. Because James is not preaching that works saves. He is preaching that people walking the earth going to churhc who CLAIM to have faith. But are hearers only and not doers. Their faith is dead.

Goes back to the question, can a person's faith save him if he doesn't have the works to show for his faith?

IMHO, faith without works is like a car without a battery. Just like a car without a battery is dead, faith without works is dead. How can a person then be saved by his faith if that faith is dead?

 

[Guojing]

Goes back to the question, can a person's faith save him if he doesn't have the works to show for his faith?

IMHO, faith without works is like a car without a battery. Just like a car without a battery is dead, faith without works is dead. How can a person then be saved by his faith if that faith is dead?

Upon plain reading of James 2, he is saying that you need faith AND works for salvation. Both are necessary conditions, and neither of them alone can be sufficient. That is what the Jews believed in during the Gospel of the Kingdom.

 

[mailmandan]

James does not contridict paul or the Lord. Because James is not preaching that works saves. He is preaching that people walking the earth going to church who CLAIM to have faith. But are hearers only and not doers. Their faith is dead.

Amen! SAYS-CLAIMS to have faith is the key word in James 2:14. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption “alone” and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[Guojing]

Amen! SAYS-CLAIMS to have faith is the key word in James 2:14. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption “alone” and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

When James wrote his letter to the 12 tribes of Israel, it was actually before the event in Acts 15.

Even after that, James continue to believe that the Jews need to obey the Law to be considered saved, only the Gentiles are excluded (Acts 21).

So when we read James, we should just take the plain interpretation of the words, instead of assuming that James have read Paul's letters and understood everything about the gospel of grace, before he wrote his letter.

 

[Placid]

Hi Garee,

Quote from Post 18: The faith by which we are quickened as new creatures is the work of God as his labor of Love. We are not saved by a work of our faith previously having none zero nothing. The new faith we have received has quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.

Romans 10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. --- The Lord may in His love brings us into the proximity of hearing the Gospel (even many times), but it is our response that builds our faith and brings us to accepting Jesus as our Savior, is it not? --- We are saved by faith, but after comes Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

--- So after we are saved by faith, which has come from hearing the Gospel and accepting it, --- and in submitting ourselves to the Lord, He has a 'work schedule' all ready for us, to 'do His good works.'
--- If our faith doesn't produce 'good works' for the Lord, then it is dormant, dead, unfruitful, is it not?

 

[dcontroversal]

As long as Cainologists and workers for FAIL to acknowledge CONTEXT and who is being addressed, they will ride James straight to the pit.........

This BOOK does NOT TEACH a faith/works blend for salvation.....never has, never will and ALL that twist it into such are deceived and peddling a false gospel.....end of story!

 

[crossnote]

The answer may well be, it depends on where you are. If you’re walking around, some may assert that James 2:17, which says “So…faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead,” applies to you. If you were a condemned criminal on the cross next to Jesus, and you accept Jesus as your savior and Jesus tells you that you will be in Heaven with him, as it says in Luke 23:39-43, that passage may not speak for you. Why? Because you would enter Heaven without having performed any works that would be a testament to your faith.

So there is no misunderstanding, the preceding passages, namely 14-16, say as follows: “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?”

And after James 2:17, James 2:18…20-23 says as follows: “But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works... Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness’—and he was called a friend of God.”

Both the condemned man on the cross and Abraham were rewarded for their faith. It seems the condemned man didn’t have to do anything except to show his faith in Jesus, and he gets a ticket to Heaven, whereas it wasn’t until Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac that God conferred His Grace on him in answer to his faith. At first glance it is ironic that the condemned man was devoted to evil and he gets an easy pass, whereas Abraham, who was devoted to doing good, was put through the mill before his faith in God was answered favorably.

As there may be no inconsistencies in the Bible, what do the condemned man and Abraham have in common in God’s eyes? By accepting the condemned man into Heaven, has God decreed, perhaps after Abraham, that you need not perform any good works to be accepted into Heaven? Has he decreed that you need not worry about what works constitute evil and what constitute goodness?

Perhaps it would help to add some perspective by taking the Old Testament into consideration. God in the Old Testament was harsh to His chosen people. For instance, a person in David’s time who transports an ark using oxen, sees the oxen stumble and the man holds the ark to steady it. For his efforts, God strikes him dead. Earlier than that, in Numbers, one of Moses people gathers sticks on the Sabbath. God tells Moses to put the man to death. What a difference between that, and the Pharisees who allowed gambling and trade to take place in God’s house of worship, an on the Sabbath no less! Did God have them put to death? No.

Considering the two events, had God become lax in conferring His Grace in New Testament times compared to Old Testament times? And it should be noted, as an aside, that the person who was put to death for gathering sticks may otherwise have had faith in God, but at that moment, perhaps because of the evil which prevailed on the world, he was given in to temptation. Here the man’s works, of gathering sticks, apparently destroyed whatever faith he otherwise may have shown in God.

Did God decide, in sending Jesus down to save the world, to put aside the harshness He levied upon His Chosen in the Old Testament? In sending Jesus down, did He try another tack, offering to confer his love if we accept Him, instead of His Wrath if we don’t? And if so, as with the condemned man, does God now assert that you need not do anything to obtain His Grace, so long as you express your faith in Him?

If that should be the case, the what is James 2:17 referring to? Some have said that works should be regarded as a “second act” following faith. The inference could well be that if you are in a position to perform ‘second acts’ following your expression of faith, and you do so, then your faith is alive. And if you’re not in a position to perform ‘second acts,’ like the condemned man on the cross, and you’ve run out of time, it is only then that your faith alone may receive God’s good Grace.

Faith in Christ yields the new birth which gives forth good works. They are inseparable. Only God sees our faith and justifies us by that alone although it is attended by the new birth which naturally produces good fruit.

As Jesus said...Matthew 7:17 (KJV) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

 

[JohnRH]

The answer may well be, it depends on where you are. If you’re walking around, some may assert that James 2:17, which says “So…faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead,” applies to you. If you were a condemned criminal on the cross next to Jesus, and you accept Jesus as your savior and Jesus tells you that you will be in Heaven with him, as it says in Luke 23:39-43, that passage may not speak for you. Why? Because you would enter Heaven without having performed any works that would be a testament to your faith.

So there is no misunderstanding, the preceding passages, namely 14-16, say as follows: “What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, ‘Go in peace, be warmed and filled,’ without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?”

And after James 2:17, James 2:18…20-23 says as follows: “But someone will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works... Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, ‘Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness’—and he was called a friend of God.”

Both the condemned man on the cross and Abraham were rewarded for their faith. It seems the condemned man didn’t have to do anything except to show his faith in Jesus, and he gets a ticket to Heaven, whereas it wasn’t until Abraham was willing to sacrifice his son Isaac that God conferred His Grace on him in answer to his faith. At first glance it is ironic that the condemned man was devoted to evil and he gets an easy pass, whereas Abraham, who was devoted to doing good, was put through the mill before his faith in God was answered favorably.

As there may be no inconsistencies in the Bible, what do the condemned man and Abraham have in common in God’s eyes? By accepting the condemned man into Heaven, has God decreed, perhaps after Abraham, that you need not perform any good works to be accepted into Heaven? Has he decreed that you need not worry about what works constitute evil and what constitute goodness?

Perhaps it would help to add some perspective by taking the Old Testament into consideration. God in the Old Testament was harsh to His chosen people. For instance, a person in David’s time who transports an ark using oxen, sees the oxen stumble and the man holds the ark to steady it. For his efforts, God strikes him dead. Earlier than that, in Numbers, one of Moses people gathers sticks on the Sabbath. God tells Moses to put the man to death. What a difference between that, and the Pharisees who allowed gambling and trade to take place in God’s house of worship, an on the Sabbath no less! Did God have them put to death? No.

Considering the two events, had God become lax in conferring His Grace in New Testament times compared to Old Testament times? And it should be noted, as an aside, that the person who was put to death for gathering sticks may otherwise have had faith in God, but at that moment, perhaps because of the evil which prevailed on the world, he was given in to temptation. Here the man’s works, of gathering sticks, apparently destroyed whatever faith he otherwise may have shown in God.

Did God decide, in sending Jesus down to save the world, to put aside the harshness He levied upon His Chosen in the Old Testament? In sending Jesus down, did He try another tack, offering to confer his love if we accept Him, instead of His Wrath if we don’t? And if so, as with the condemned man, does God now assert that you need not do anything to obtain His Grace, so long as you express your faith in Him?

If that should be the case, the what is James 2:17 referring to? Some have said that works should be regarded as a “second act” following faith. The inference could well be that if you are in a position to perform ‘second acts’ following your expression of faith, and you do so, then your faith is alive. And if you’re not in a position to perform ‘second acts,’ like the condemned man on the cross, and you’ve run out of time, it is only then that your faith alone may receive God’s good Grace.

"Showing" your faith or "expressing" your faith doesn't get you to heaven; having faith does.

Abraham was eternally saved and eternally secure years before he put Isaac on the alter.
God justified Abraham (declared him just) in Genesis 15:6. Later Abraham's works justified him (declared him just) in Genesis 22. If God has declared one thing and your works are declaring the opposite, those works need to be abandoned.

God loves the unsaved sinner (Rom. 5:8; 1 John 4:9,10) and His wrath is upon him (John 3:36) at the same time.

"Save" in James 2:14 isn't a reference to eternal salvation; The way of salvation isn't feeding, clothing, offering your son, or helping spies. The way of salvation is, and always has been, through faith alone.

 

[newton3003]

"Save" in James 2:14 isn't a reference to eternal salvation; The way of salvation isn't feeding, clothing, offering your son, or helping spies. The way of salvation is, and always has been, through faith alone.

And faith without works is dead.