Born Again Speaking in Tongues

Wansvic · May 23, 2019

The speaking in tongues spoken of here refers to the tongues that accompany the bodily infilling of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost IS the gift given by God to the new believer. (Acts 2:38, Acts 2:1, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:2-6)

"...ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." Acts 2:38

Paul's comment pertains to the Spiritual gift given BY the Holy Ghost, in this case tongues for the edification of the church. Not everyone in the church will operate in all gifts. (1 Cor. 12:28-31)

The biblical record makes a clear distinction between the two types of tongues. This concept is also implied by the cloven tongues of fire that appeared on the Day of Pentecost. Cloven tongues. (divided into two)

Rightly dividing the word is crucial to understand how one is born again as well as how we are to conduct ourselves as Christians.

Noose · May 23, 2019

Locoponydirtman said:

Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love.
1 CORINTHIANS 13:8‭-‬13 NASB

I know that this is the passage this secessionist stand on, but it in no way implies that the canonization of the Bible is "the perfect". Which is probably better translated when "the completion comes". Which just the very fact that we have to have translations and that there are some translation difficulties is evidence in itself that this passage isn't speak of canonization. Because that fact alone tells us that knowledge is still required. This passage has to be about personal transformation, when we are face to face, and know as we are known. Perfected in Christ seeing Christ in our new perfected and glorified form. Then the tools of ministry that are required will no longer be required but faith, hope, and love will remain, so the rhetorical point is how much more important the three that will remain are that the temporal ministry tools.
We will see in a glass dimly until we reach out final perfection. And these debates among those who sincerely love the Lord are the empirical evidence.

1.There's no moment, past or future, when knowledge won't be required.

2.The perfect that makes the temporary to cease is love - it's written right there (1 Cor 13) and it is explained in 1 John 4. The perfect that was to come is loving one another and loving one another is knowing God.
So if the gifts did not cease, it means until now, we do not know God therefore don't love one another.

3. Please stay close to your bible.

Noose · May 23, 2019

Footprint said:

Sorry but your ideas are misguiding.
In emergency situations like this, one is required to pack a few essentials and move in the opposite direction as fast as possible; not babble.

RickyZ · May 23, 2019

oyster67 said:

Unless your Bible is the MRV

RickyZ · May 23, 2019

wolfwint said:

I could tell you a story about this, but then you'd just call me a liar

Wansvic · May 23, 2019

We all agree that there is but one truth. Since it is obvious that we see different things it should be, and mostly is, the desire of all to help one another. So with this in mind why not share thoughts in a respectable way rather than slam someone with differing beliefs. We are told numerous times what God expects of as seen in the fruit of the Spirit. For God says if we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit." Gal 5:22-25

RickyZ · May 23, 2019

Jimbone said:

I don't know, you seek it less, pray for it less, are more hardened to accepting certain things. I mean maybe they are more draw to other ministries, for God to use in other capacities. There is not a mold God has that we all fit into, this is one of the most amazing things to me is that God is sovereign over all our choices, to me it's incomprehensible, but I wouldn't worship a God that was completely understandable. Having said that, I do have to admit I say that from this side, with opened eyes, before God opened them I couldn't care less about these kinds of things. Jesus told us that people will know us by our love for each other, if I believe different than you, on matters like this, I can share in love how I see it and how God has brought me to understand this, then I sit back and listen to you and how God has walked you to your understandings, you know what? He can use you to grow him a bit, and even maybe him to grow you. Or you go your own way thinking you wasted your time at reflect on the conversation, maybe you were a bit harsh here, or "bing, understand what he meant when he said that now" and God grows you that way. In ALL things He grows us. God is amazing and EVERYTHING is in His hands.

So I'm not trying to really debate you on this issue. I go to a church at affirms these things, I don't practice tongues in this way because #1 I tend to understand them to be a actual language, for people who can't communicate to communicate. How ever I do honestly think there is enough language in the text to leave room for this practice. That aside I believe that if they do it for His glory, if they are doing it in Him then praise the Lord for it. I truly believe this falls under Rom 14:1-12,

1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall confess to God.”

12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

So that's how He's has lead me to see it thus far.

When we talk about the gifts of the Holy Spirit we fall under a new set of rules. If I tell a vegetable-eater that eating vegetables is no longer valid and of the devil, I'm just being a fool and will suffer a fool's fate. But when someone attributes a bonafide act of the Holy Spirit to demons, they have now become ensnared in a trap the Bible says they cannot get out of. That's why cessationists MUST be careful what they say. Believe they've ceased, whatever. Call a legitimate act as being of satan and scripture is CLEAR about your fate. That is why this one subject, out of all the others, is critically different.

Expose the falsehoods, expose the fakes, but DO NOT cast that net over the entire kit and caboodle. Because that is a far far more serious crime than calling a veggie muncher wrong.

7seasrekeyed · May 23, 2019

garee said:

All saints die not receiving the sign of His promise a new incorruptible body. (Hebrews 11:39 ) Some try and replace it by adding to that one sign.... with things they perform and then use that to confirm something?

I would think those who seek after signs and wonders have a verse that could defend your idea in respect to tongues one of the many manner of prophecy .This is when God was still adding to it. Revelation remains the last book it contains the 7 seals to make sure those who seek after wonderment cannot blame it on God. . Isaiah 28 a good place to start looking at the doctrine of tongues.

Why is those who are seeking after wonderment, amazement to bring excitement to their hearts rather than a contrite heart avoid looking to the foundation of the law of God's mocking those who mock Him and the expansion and therefore conclusion in 1 Corinthians 14:22-23???? It would seem they avoid looking to the law as if it was a plague?

Non sense of sense according to the word of God? It should be not that hard to confirm either way. Are you receiving new revelations that could be added to the Bible? Need more that he has given .

What do you think the "sign" confirms according to the law??

please see my post # 189

this is the bottom line

I do not want to have this conversation with you. I'm not lonely enough.

7seasrekeyed · May 23, 2019

Wansvic said:

LOL! that is just you sniping at me because I disagree with your POV on baptism and tongues

your ideas need correction, not my post

Ricky does have genuine concern, but you need affirmation which I am not going to give with your extra biblical interpretations

otherwise, we prob do agree on most things. I'm not your enemy and it is telling you take what you see as an opportunity to have a shot at me

CS1 · May 23, 2019

Wansvic said:

the context of my comment "legalistic" was not about water baptism. Are your oneness? If you are then you should why I said that. Oneness hold to " you MUST be baptized in Jesus Name only" to be saved. That is a legalistic method for baptism which I do not agree with.

Footprint · May 23, 2019

CS1 said:

Thank you for your kind words.

Actually, I don't like to use a denominational tag because Paul warned against any divisions in the church...

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
[12] Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

Regardless of Paul's concern, we now have thousands of divisions. Some are of the Pope (Catholic), some are of Martin Luther (the German monk who began the Protestant Reformation) and the list goes on.

However, divisions or not, I do read in God's Word the need for water baptism.
Do you hold it as legalistic because of the Pattern in the O.T.? ...

Hebrews 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

Exodus 30:18 Thou shalt also make a laver of brass, and his foot also of brass, to wash withal: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein.
[19] For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat:
[20] When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not; or when they come near to the altar to minister, to burn offering made by fire unto the LORD:

That was a shadow of things to come. When they entered the tabernacle, the first stop was the Alter (death - repentance), then comes the Laver (water - burial), then they could enter into Holy Place where everything was gold.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

-Thanks again.

Wansvic · May 23, 2019

7seasrekeyed said:

I do not consider you an enemy. My post to you had nothing to do with retaliation because our beliefs differ. Your walk is between you and God. And mine between He and me. So a need for affirmation from you is the furthest thing from my mind. Your comments to others are visible to everyone. And as such, your personal affront is obvious. And whether you accept it or not that is what I find sad.

Wansvic · May 23, 2019

CS1 said:

Are there scriptures where those administering water baptisms did so without the use of Jesus' name? If so, would you please provide them?

Absolutely · May 23, 2019

wolfwint said:

Pardon? I am wrong? And the Apostels did not all this?
When do you cast out the last Demons?

Why you treat me as an unbeliever? Because I do not Support your view?
Imagine you live in the Year 430 ad. And you Meat People from the montanism movement, which Practice prophecie, forbit Marriage, and said that martyrium directly lead to God, had a high Moral.
Sounds good and right in an wordly christianity as it was found in those Time, too.
But if you Go back to the beginning with the founder Montanus, you found that he was a false Prophet. This was he prophecies became not True and he claimed that the paraklet(Holy Spirit) direct speak through Him. Would you trust then this movement?

Never implied you were an unbeliever.
Re read my post.

CS1 · May 23, 2019

Wansvic said:

I can do better Jesus said to "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, " Matthew 28: 19. Are you saying they did not do that when they baptized? was Jesus wrong in His instructions?

Absolutely · May 23, 2019

wolfwint said:

Pardon? I am wrong? And the Apostels did not all this?
When do you cast out the last Demons?

Why you treat me as an unbeliever? Because I do not Support your view?
Imagine you live in the Year 430 ad. And you Meat People from the montanism movement, which Practice prophecie, forbit Marriage, and said that martyrium directly lead to God, had a high Moral.
Sounds good and right in an wordly christianity as it was found in those Time, too.
But if you Go back to the beginning with the founder Montanus, you found that he was a false Prophet. This was he prophecies became not True and he claimed that the paraklet(Holy Spirit) direct speak through Him. Would you trust then this movement?

Wolfwint,go to this site and read,read,read.
Make that doubt leave you.
http://www.smithwigglesworth.com

Wansvic · May 23, 2019

CS1 said:

The apostles did what Jesus told them to do. They consistently used the name of Jesus when they administered water baptisms as revealed in the word. We see this in Peter's and Paul's actions and comments. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16, 1 Cor 1:13-16, Rom 6:3-5)

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:12
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

Acts 8:15-16
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 19:5
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

1 Cor 1:2
Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1 Cor 1:13-16
… were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

1 Cor 6:11
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Eph 3:14-15
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

Wansvic · May 23, 2019

CS1 said:

Please provide the records where people administered water baptism using the words in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. You can not there are none.

If Jesus meant to use the titles the apostles would have done so. They did not as witnessed by the word. This is just fact.

7seasrekeyed · May 23, 2019

Wansvic said:

oh yes I know

you just thought you would correct me since you consider anyone wrong who does not agree with you as you have illustrated over and over

your comments are also visible. please get over yourself. this is not a hill to die on and it would help if you see how you have sniped at me because of your beliefs

I asked you to stop the discussion on baptism with me because not only do you hold the belief that baptism is a part of salvation...which I certainly do not..but you also say there is a comparison with OT circumcision which is something I never heard of before

so, since I never heard of such a thing before, I did some research and I found certain denominations do hold to that opinion and it seems nothing and no one is going to show them different. that is basically how you post here while saying you are polite but must keep doing what you do. I don't care but some people find that obnoxious as you just won't quit and think you have God's direction in what you do even if other people try hard to point out the errors of your stance on these matters

I guess you do not see that in telling me you find me sad and saying everyone sees my posts (like only my posts stand out) you are actually putting yourself in what you consider a superior position

it's more than a little transparent and there are people here that whose posts are far far worse than anything I post but they didn't tell you to leave them alone like I did

And whether you accept it or not that is what I find sad. (see how hypocritical that sounds when someone else says it?)

now please be an adult and move along. the discussion is over as far as I am concerned

wolfwint · May 23, 2019

Wansvic said:

Thats right, but they went, as they was comandet. And if you Read missionhistoy

RickyZ said:

Why? I believe this is possible today, too.

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