Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Amen! Believers are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. 
We are saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE -- "saved by grace through faith, not works" (Ephesians 2:8,9) which does not take away the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, which was His part and faith is our part. (Romans 3:24-28; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Jesus Christ walked/lived on this earth and was in all points tempted as we are, yet He was without sin. (Hebrews 4:15) Believers ought to walk in the same manner as Jesus walked, in truth and in love, (1 John 2:6) which is what believers strive to do because we are saved and we love the Lord and not to become saved. Works of service are what we are saved FOR and NOT BY. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
We are saved through faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE -- "saved by grace through faith, not works" (Ephesians 2:8,9) which does not take away the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, which was His part and faith is our part. (Romans 3:24-28; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) Jesus Christ walked/lived on this earth and was in all points tempted as we are, yet He was without sin. (Hebrews 4:15) Believers ought to walk in the same manner as Jesus walked, in truth and in love, (1 John 2:6) which is what believers strive to do because we are saved and we love the Lord and not to become saved. Works of service are what we are saved FOR and NOT BY. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
Titus 2:11-15 and Ephesians 2:8-10
-
1
- Show all
Yes, believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments because we have come to know Him/already know Him/are already saved (1 John 2:3) and not in order to become saved.
Here is a statement below from a SDA who I was previously in a discussion with that teaches you need to obey the commandments to be saved, which is salvation by works -- namely, salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
That statement above is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
Here is a statement below from a SDA who I was previously in a discussion with that teaches you need to obey the commandments to be saved, which is salvation by works -- namely, salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
That statement above is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
-
2
- Show all
Agreed.
Titus 2 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
a. The grace of God brings salvation.
b. It has appeared to all men
c. It teaches us
1. to deny ungodliness and worldy lusts
2. to live soberly and righteously
d. While we are looking for the Blessed Hope and appearing of Jesus.
e. Who is our Great God and Saviour.
f. Who gave Himself for us, in order to (hina of purpose)
1. redeem us from all lawlessness.
2. Purify us unto Himself
3. zealous of good works.
g. We are to speak and exhort these things.
h. Let no one despise the one who speaks these things.
Titus 2 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
a. The grace of God brings salvation.
b. It has appeared to all men
c. It teaches us
1. to deny ungodliness and worldy lusts
2. to live soberly and righteously
d. While we are looking for the Blessed Hope and appearing of Jesus.
e. Who is our Great God and Saviour.
f. Who gave Himself for us, in order to (hina of purpose)
1. redeem us from all lawlessness.
2. Purify us unto Himself
3. zealous of good works.
g. We are to speak and exhort these things.
h. Let no one despise the one who speaks these things.
Yes, believers "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments because we have come to know Him/already know Him/are already saved (1 John 2:3) and not in order to become saved.
Here is a statement below from a SDA who I was previously in a discussion with that teaches you need to obey the commandments to be saved, which is salvation by works -- namely, salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
That statement above is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
Here is a statement below from a SDA who I was previously in a discussion with that teaches you need to obey the commandments to be saved, which is salvation by works -- namely, salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."
The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.
That statement above is more than a subtle mixture of law and grace which is a perversion of the gospel. (Galatians 1:6-9)
The Law diagnoses our condition, and grace is the cure.
The Law cannot save, in part or in whole. It can only convince us of our need for salvation.
-
3
-
1
- Show all
Here is a song "mirror of souls", by a Christian band called Theocracy. It is only part of the song, but I wanted to share this little portion, because it makes a great point.
As I step inside
I can see another mirror
A mirror so bright
That my eyes must turn away
A mirror so high
I start to question all the others
And as I stand there in the Hall of Truth
my heart can only say:
"Show me the truth, I don't know what to believe
For the mirrors all showed something different to me
And my pride has given way to misery
I've spent so long in the dark and the rain
That the sight of the light made my heart sing again
And the stranger built a bridge across for me"
"BEHOLD THYSELF" a voice rings out
in paralyzing thunder
It echoes all throughout the hall
and sends me to my knees
When the voice calls my name
I'm overcome with fear and wonder
As I slowly start to rise
and face the great mirror in front of me
When I open my eyes, I have to close them again
But still the image is burned into my mind...
A face with eyes as black as night
A terrifying sight
The flesh rotting away in sickness and decay
It's mangled by disease
I'm unable to breathe
Tell me what manner of creature this could be
'Cause it's not me
I run away as fast as my feet will carry me
Back to the door leading into the night
Even the storm that almost claimed my life
was better than this
And so I throw open the door and see a man
(The figure of a man)
The stranger from the storm returns again
I see understanding in his eyes
(He's seen this all before)
Maybe he can tell me what I saw behind that door
"Tell me what I saw in the mirror
Before I ran away
Tell me what I saw in the mirror
That face of sickness and decay
Tell me what I saw in the mirror
That left me terrorized
With the lifeless, blackened eyes?
Was it a demon
From the fiery waves?
Was it the undead
From beyond the grave?
Oh the face that I beheld in the mirror
left me paralyzed
Won't you tell me what I saw
in the mirror on this night?"
"The light from the mirror you saw from afar
The Mirror of Souls shows all men as they are
You entered the hall and you asked for the truth
The man that you saw in the mirror was you"
"No! Don't show me the truth
'cause I don't want to believe
What the Mirror of Souls
has revealed unto me
And the face I saw reflected cannot be me
Dying and lost in the arms of decay
I do not recognize the face I've seen today
And if you say that's my face I must disagree"
The meaning of these things I saw:
The mirror is the holy eyes of God
The truth unveiled before me
with these words of the stranger...
(next four lines excluded, because they refer to things that happened earlier in the song)
I have seen my soul in the mirror
And it has broken me
I have seen myself so much clearer
Than I had ever seen
"Can't you take away all this sickness
from my soul and set me free?
You can save me... I believe"
And then he said, "Arise, my child
your faith has made you reconciled
Now gaze into the Mirror once again"
We walked together through the door
And I looked in the glass once more
But the only one reflected back was him
Somehow the only one in the mirror was him
Gazing in the Mirror of my Soul
Staring at the man who took my place
and made me whole
In the Mirror
The Mirror of my Soul
Read more: Theocracy - Mirror Of Souls Lyrics | MetroLyrics
As I step inside
I can see another mirror
A mirror so bright
That my eyes must turn away
A mirror so high
I start to question all the others
And as I stand there in the Hall of Truth
my heart can only say:
"Show me the truth, I don't know what to believe
For the mirrors all showed something different to me
And my pride has given way to misery
I've spent so long in the dark and the rain
That the sight of the light made my heart sing again
And the stranger built a bridge across for me"
"BEHOLD THYSELF" a voice rings out
in paralyzing thunder
It echoes all throughout the hall
and sends me to my knees
When the voice calls my name
I'm overcome with fear and wonder
As I slowly start to rise
and face the great mirror in front of me
When I open my eyes, I have to close them again
But still the image is burned into my mind...
A face with eyes as black as night
A terrifying sight
The flesh rotting away in sickness and decay
It's mangled by disease
I'm unable to breathe
Tell me what manner of creature this could be
'Cause it's not me
I run away as fast as my feet will carry me
Back to the door leading into the night
Even the storm that almost claimed my life
was better than this
And so I throw open the door and see a man
(The figure of a man)
The stranger from the storm returns again
I see understanding in his eyes
(He's seen this all before)
Maybe he can tell me what I saw behind that door
"Tell me what I saw in the mirror
Before I ran away
Tell me what I saw in the mirror
That face of sickness and decay
Tell me what I saw in the mirror
That left me terrorized
With the lifeless, blackened eyes?
Was it a demon
From the fiery waves?
Was it the undead
From beyond the grave?
Oh the face that I beheld in the mirror
left me paralyzed
Won't you tell me what I saw
in the mirror on this night?"
"The light from the mirror you saw from afar
The Mirror of Souls shows all men as they are
You entered the hall and you asked for the truth
The man that you saw in the mirror was you"
"No! Don't show me the truth
'cause I don't want to believe
What the Mirror of Souls
has revealed unto me
And the face I saw reflected cannot be me
Dying and lost in the arms of decay
I do not recognize the face I've seen today
And if you say that's my face I must disagree"
The meaning of these things I saw:
The mirror is the holy eyes of God
The truth unveiled before me
with these words of the stranger...
(next four lines excluded, because they refer to things that happened earlier in the song)
I have seen my soul in the mirror
And it has broken me
I have seen myself so much clearer
Than I had ever seen
"Can't you take away all this sickness
from my soul and set me free?
You can save me... I believe"
And then he said, "Arise, my child
your faith has made you reconciled
Now gaze into the Mirror once again"
We walked together through the door
And I looked in the glass once more
But the only one reflected back was him
Somehow the only one in the mirror was him
Gazing in the Mirror of my Soul
Staring at the man who took my place
and made me whole
In the Mirror
The Mirror of my Soul
Read more: Theocracy - Mirror Of Souls Lyrics | MetroLyrics
Does not matter....a son is a son by birth whether 1 second old or 100 years old..............there is no such thing as growing into being a son......it is instant at birth......and you should know better than to imply that I do not or have not studied the words........I have only said 1000 times on this site that I study EVERY WORD from the Greek or Hebrew.........
EVEN NOW are we the SONS of GOD, but it doth not yet appear what we shall be.
And sanctification is used in a dual manner......one is INSTANT at the moment of salvation and has positionally designated us IN CHRIST.....and of course you know the second aspect is indicative of our walk and subject to the transformation that takes place as described in Romans 12
Ever since I have taken a stand against the modern charismatic movement that has nothing to do with God you have really changed your attitude toward me........tragic because I am not your enemy!
EVEN NOW are we the SONS of GOD, but it doth not yet appear what we shall be.
And sanctification is used in a dual manner......one is INSTANT at the moment of salvation and has positionally designated us IN CHRIST.....and of course you know the second aspect is indicative of our walk and subject to the transformation that takes place as described in Romans 12
Ever since I have taken a stand against the modern charismatic movement that has nothing to do with God you have really changed your attitude toward me........tragic because I am not your enemy!
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Notice that this alleged "new" member wasted no time going to the "Not By Works" thread upon arrival and did not even bother to introduce himself.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
