What Pentecostal denomination does NOT believe in the initial evidence doctrine?

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Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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South
adelaiderevival.com
This is exactly the attitude of Pentecostal in my area that I have been dealing with for 40 years.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Galatians 3:
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Most Pentecostal denominations have 'classical Pentecostal stance'.
- Speaking in tongues as evidence of baptism of Holy Spirit.
---
As someone already suggested, you need to visit Pentecostal churches. - different denominations.
- Get to know/encounter..
- Beyond theoretical/doctrinal search..
Each denomination has it's distinctives seperating them from the other denominations. The early elders in 212 created the Apostles Creed stating the definition of the beliefs required to be a Christian. Later by 500
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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400
83
Later by 500 the Athanasian Creed and the Nicine creeds were written. The creeds state the beliefs required to be a Christian. Anything outside of them is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to them is heresy!!
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
113
Jesus is in both the Old Testament and New Testaments. That being the case, when the judgement comes, I would not like to be in the shoes of those who say the Old Testament is not divinely inspired when Christ has been with us in Spirit since the creation of the world. To say otherwise is to insult Almighty God.

The theme of the Bible in a nutshell is God's relationship with man, and he is everywhere found.

In Genesis, He is the Creator God.
In Exodus, He is the Redeemer.
In Leviticus, He is your sanctification. (To set apart for sacred use; consecrate. 2. To make holy; purify.)
In Numbers, He is your guide. (Forty years wandering.)
In Deuteronomy, He is your teacher. (Repetition of the laws.)
In Joshua, He is the mighty conqueror. (Conquering Canaan)
In Judges, He gives victory over enemies.
In Ruth, He is your kinsman, your lover, your redeemer.
In I Samuel, he is the root of Jesse;
In 2 Samuel, He is the Son of David.
In 1 Kings and 2 Kings, He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords
In 1st and 2nd Chronicles, He is your intercessor and High Priest.
In Ezra, He is your temple, your house of worship.
In Nehemiah, He is your mighty wall, protecting you from your enemies.
In Esther, He stands in the gap to deliver you from your enemies.
In Job, He is the arbitrator who not only understands your struggles, but has the power to do something about them.
In Psalms, He is your song-and your reason to sing.
In Proverbs, He is your wisdom, helping you make sense of life and live it successfully. WISDOM
In Ecclesiastes, He is your purpose, delivering you from vanity.
In the Song of Solomon, He is your lover, your Rose of Sharon.
In Isaiah, He is the mighty counsellor, the prince of peace, the everlasting father, and more. In short, He's everything you need. Warnings to the sinful.
In Jeremiah, He is your balm of Gilead, the soothing salve for your sin-sick soul. Backsliding, bondage and restoration.
In Lamentations, He is the ever-faithful one upon whom you can depend.
In Ezekiel, He is your wheel in the middle of a wheel-the one who assures that dry, dead bones will come alive again. Portrays the sad condition of Gods people and the pathway to future exaltation and glory.
In Daniel, He is the ancient of days, the everlasting God who never runs out of time.
In Hosea, He is your faithful lover, always beckoning you to come back-even when you have abandoned Him. The apostasy of Israel which is characterised as spiritual adultery.
In Joel, He is your refuge, keeping you safe in times of trouble. Divine judgments may be transformed into a season of blessing.
In Amos, He is the husbandman, the one you can depend on to stay by your side.
In Obadiah, He is Lord of the Kingdom. The doom of Edom and the final deliverance of Israel.
In Jonah, He is your salvation, bringing you back within His will. The lesson of obedience and the depth of divine mercy.
In Micah, He is judge of the nation. Dark picture of of Israel and the foretelling of the Messianic kingdom in which righteousness shall prevail.
In Nahum, He is the jealous God. The destruction of Nineveh and the promised deliverance from Assyria.
In Habakkuk, He is the Holy One. The mysteries of providence. How can a Just God allow wicked nations to oppress Israel.
In Zephaniah, He is the witness. Ends in a vision of the future glory of Israel.
In Haggai, He overthrows the enemies. He reproves the people for slackness in building the second temple but promises a return of God's glory when the building is completed.
In Zechariah, He is Lord of Hosts.
In Malachi, He is the messenger God. A graphic picture of the closing of OT history and the necessity of reforms before the coming of the Messiah.
In Matthew, He is king of the Jews. Showing the Jews that Jesus was the kingly Messiah of Jewish prophesy.
In Mark, He is the servant. Emphasis the supernatural power of Christ over nature, disease and daemons. All this divine energy exercised for the good of man.
In Luke, He is the Son of Man, feeling what you feel. The most complete biography of Jesus. It portrays him as the Son of man man full of compassion for the sinful and the poor.
In John, He is the Son of God. The narrative unveils Jesus as the Son of God and reveals his deeper teachings and two words echo throughout the book which are faith and eternal life.
In Acts, He is Saviour of the world. A sequel to the Gospel of Luke. Main theme the origin and growth of the early church from the ascension of Christ to the imprisonment of Paul at Rome.
In Romans, He is the righteousness of God. A masterly exposition of the need for, and the nature of, the Plan of Salvation. Part (2) Chs. 12-16. Largely exhortations relating to spiritual, social and civic duties.
In I Corinthians, He is the rock that followed Israel. Addressed to the Corinthian church. Leading topics—The cleansing of the church from various evils, together with doctrinal instructions.
In II Corinthians, He is the triumphant one, giving victory. Leading topics—The char characteristics of an apostolic ministry, and the vindication of Paul's apostleship.
In Galatians, He is your liberty; He sets you free. Addressed to the church in Galatia. Leading topics—A defence of Paul's apostolic authority, and of the doctrine of Justification by Faith, with warnings against false teachers and reversion to Judaism.
In Ephesians, He is head of the Church. Written to the church at Ephesus. An exposition of the glorious Plan of Salvation. Special emphasis is laid upon the fact that all barriers between Jews and gentiles are broken down.
In Philippians, He is your joy. A love letter to the Philippian church. It reveals the apostle's intense devotion to Christ, his joyful experience in prison, his deep concern that the church should be steadfast in sound doctrine.
In Colossians, He is your completeness. Written to the church at Colosse. Leading topic—The transcendent glory of Christ as the Head of the Church. This sublime truth calls for the abandonment of all worldly philosophy and sin.
In I Thessalonians, He is your hope. Written to the church at Thessalonica. It is composed of apostolic commendations, reminiscences, counsels and exhortations. Especial emphasis is laid upon the comforting hope of the future advent, of Christ.
In II Thessalonians, He is your patience and discipline. A sequel to the first epistle. Written to enlighten the church concerning the doctrine of Christ's Second Coming and to warn believers against unrest rest and social disorders.
In I Timothy, He is your faith. Counsels to a young pastor concerning his conduct and ministerial work.
In II Timothy, He is your stability. Paul's last letter, written shortly before his death, giving instructions and counsels to his beloved "son in the gospel."
In Titus, He is the truth. An apostolic letter giving counsels and exhortations to a trusted friend, who was pastor in a hard field. Special emphasis is laid upon the doctrine of good works.
In Philemon, He is your benefactor. A private letter written to Philemon, beseeching him to receive and forgive Onesimus, a runaway slave.
In Hebrews, He is your perfection. The transcendent glory of Christ, and of the blessings of the new dispensation, compared with those of the Old Testament. Key Word, "Better."
In James, He is the power behind your faith. Writer probably James, the Lord's brother. Addressed to Jewish converts of the dispersion. Main theme—Practical Religion, manifest manifesting itself in good works, as contrasted with mere profession of faith.
In I Peter, He is your example. A letter of encouragement written by the apostle Peter to the saints scattered throughout Asia Minor. Leading topic—The privilege of believers following the example of Christ, to have victory in the midst of trials, and to live holy lives in an unfriendly world.
In II Peter, He is your purity. Largely a warning against false teachers and scoffers.
In I John, He is your life. A deep spiritual message addressed by the apostle John to different classes of believers in the church. It lays great,t stress upon the believer's privilege of spiritual knowledge, the duty of fellowship and brotherly love.
In II John, He is your pattern. A brief message of John on divine truth and worldly error. Addressed to "The elect lady and her children." A warning against heresy and false teachers.
In III John, He is your motivation. An apostolic letter of commendation written to Gaius, containing character sketches of certain persons in the church.

In Jude, He is the foundation of your faith. Writer, probably the brother of James. Leading topics—Historical examples of apostasy and divine judgments upon sinners, together with warnings against immoral teachers.

In the Revelation, He is your coming King. Leading topics—Mainly a series of apoc alyptic visions dealing with events in re religious history. A great moral conflict is portrayed, between the divine and satanic powers, ending in the victory of the Lamb.
From the beginning of the world to its end, there is no place you can look and not see Jesus. He is everywhere. He is everything.
"He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."-- Colossians 1:17

Author Unknown
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
Each denomination has it's distinctives seperating them from the other denominations. The early elders in 212 created the Apostles Creed stating the definition of the beliefs required to be a Christian. Later by 500
Later by 500 the Athanasian Creed and the Nicine creeds were written. The creeds state the beliefs required to be a Christian. Anything outside of them is to agree to disagree. Anything contrary to them is heresy!!
And this is the problem------
People put more value on CREEDS and the teaching of men than on the Word.
From what I have read of CREEDS, they are the chief source of heresy.

I will just stick with my Bible.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
And this is the problem------
People put more value on CREEDS and the teaching of men than on the Word.
From what I have read of CREEDS, they are the chief source of heresy.

I will just stick with my Bible.
Same thing I have been saying for years now............!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
Jesus is in both the Old Testament and New Testaments. That being the case, when the judgement comes, I would not like to be in the shoes of those who say the Old Testament is not divinely inspired when Christ has been with us in Spirit since the creation of the world. To say otherwise is to insult Almighty God.

The theme of the Bible in a nutshell is God's relationship with man, and he is everywhere found.

In Genesis, He is the Creator God.
In Exodus, He is the Redeemer.
In Leviticus, He is your sanctification. (To set apart for sacred use; consecrate. 2. To make holy; purify.)
In Numbers, He is your guide. (Forty years wandering.)
In Deuteronomy, He is your teacher. (Repetition of the laws.)
In Joshua, He is the mighty conqueror. (Conquering Canaan)
In Judges, He gives victory over enemies.
In Ruth, He is your kinsman, your lover, your redeemer.
In I Samuel, he is the root of Jesse;
In 2 Samuel, He is the Son of David.
In 1 Kings and 2 Kings, He is King of Kings and Lord of Lords
In 1st and 2nd Chronicles, He is your intercessor and High Priest.
In Ezra, He is your temple, your house of worship.
In Nehemiah, He is your mighty wall, protecting you from your enemies.
In Esther, He stands in the gap to deliver you from your enemies.
In Job, He is the arbitrator who not only understands your struggles, but has the power to do something about them.
In Psalms, He is your song-and your reason to sing.
In Proverbs, He is your wisdom, helping you make sense of life and live it successfully. WISDOM
In Ecclesiastes, He is your purpose, delivering you from vanity.
In the Song of Solomon, He is your lover, your Rose of Sharon.
In Isaiah, He is the mighty counsellor, the prince of peace, the everlasting father, and more. In short, He's everything you need. Warnings to the sinful.
In Jeremiah, He is your balm of Gilead, the soothing salve for your sin-sick soul. Backsliding, bondage and restoration.
In Lamentations, He is the ever-faithful one upon whom you can depend.
In Ezekiel, He is your wheel in the middle of a wheel-the one who assures that dry, dead bones will come alive again. Portrays the sad condition of Gods people and the pathway to future exaltation and glory.
In Daniel, He is the ancient of days, the everlasting God who never runs out of time.
In Hosea, He is your faithful lover, always beckoning you to come back-even when you have abandoned Him. The apostasy of Israel which is characterised as spiritual adultery.
In Joel, He is your refuge, keeping you safe in times of trouble. Divine judgments may be transformed into a season of blessing.
In Amos, He is the husbandman, the one you can depend on to stay by your side.
In Obadiah, He is Lord of the Kingdom. The doom of Edom and the final deliverance of Israel.
In Jonah, He is your salvation, bringing you back within His will. The lesson of obedience and the depth of divine mercy.
In Micah, He is judge of the nation. Dark picture of of Israel and the foretelling of the Messianic kingdom in which righteousness shall prevail.
In Nahum, He is the jealous God. The destruction of Nineveh and the promised deliverance from Assyria.
In Habakkuk, He is the Holy One. The mysteries of providence. How can a Just God allow wicked nations to oppress Israel.
In Zephaniah, He is the witness. Ends in a vision of the future glory of Israel.
In Haggai, He overthrows the enemies. He reproves the people for slackness in building the second temple but promises a return of God's glory when the building is completed.
In Zechariah, He is Lord of Hosts.
In Malachi, He is the messenger God. A graphic picture of the closing of OT history and the necessity of reforms before the coming of the Messiah.
In Matthew, He is king of the Jews. Showing the Jews that Jesus was the kingly Messiah of Jewish prophesy.
In Mark, He is the servant. Emphasis the supernatural power of Christ over nature, disease and daemons. All this divine energy exercised for the good of man.
In Luke, He is the Son of Man, feeling what you feel. The most complete biography of Jesus. It portrays him as the Son of man man full of compassion for the sinful and the poor.
In John, He is the Son of God. The narrative unveils Jesus as the Son of God and reveals his deeper teachings and two words echo throughout the book which are faith and eternal life.
In Acts, He is Saviour of the world. A sequel to the Gospel of Luke. Main theme the origin and growth of the early church from the ascension of Christ to the imprisonment of Paul at Rome.
In Romans, He is the righteousness of God. A masterly exposition of the need for, and the nature of, the Plan of Salvation. Part (2) Chs. 12-16. Largely exhortations relating to spiritual, social and civic duties.
In I Corinthians, He is the rock that followed Israel. Addressed to the Corinthian church. Leading topics—The cleansing of the church from various evils, together with doctrinal instructions.
In II Corinthians, He is the triumphant one, giving victory. Leading topics—The char characteristics of an apostolic ministry, and the vindication of Paul's apostleship.
In Galatians, He is your liberty; He sets you free. Addressed to the church in Galatia. Leading topics—A defence of Paul's apostolic authority, and of the doctrine of Justification by Faith, with warnings against false teachers and reversion to Judaism.
In Ephesians, He is head of the Church. Written to the church at Ephesus. An exposition of the glorious Plan of Salvation. Special emphasis is laid upon the fact that all barriers between Jews and gentiles are broken down.
In Philippians, He is your joy. A love letter to the Philippian church. It reveals the apostle's intense devotion to Christ, his joyful experience in prison, his deep concern that the church should be steadfast in sound doctrine.
In Colossians, He is your completeness. Written to the church at Colosse. Leading topic—The transcendent glory of Christ as the Head of the Church. This sublime truth calls for the abandonment of all worldly philosophy and sin.
In I Thessalonians, He is your hope. Written to the church at Thessalonica. It is composed of apostolic commendations, reminiscences, counsels and exhortations. Especial emphasis is laid upon the comforting hope of the future advent, of Christ.
In II Thessalonians, He is your patience and discipline. A sequel to the first epistle. Written to enlighten the church concerning the doctrine of Christ's Second Coming and to warn believers against unrest rest and social disorders.
In I Timothy, He is your faith. Counsels to a young pastor concerning his conduct and ministerial work.
In II Timothy, He is your stability. Paul's last letter, written shortly before his death, giving instructions and counsels to his beloved "son in the gospel."
In Titus, He is the truth. An apostolic letter giving counsels and exhortations to a trusted friend, who was pastor in a hard field. Special emphasis is laid upon the doctrine of good works.
In Philemon, He is your benefactor. A private letter written to Philemon, beseeching him to receive and forgive Onesimus, a runaway slave.
In Hebrews, He is your perfection. The transcendent glory of Christ, and of the blessings of the new dispensation, compared with those of the Old Testament. Key Word, "Better."
In James, He is the power behind your faith. Writer probably James, the Lord's brother. Addressed to Jewish converts of the dispersion. Main theme—Practical Religion, manifest manifesting itself in good works, as contrasted with mere profession of faith.
In I Peter, He is your example. A letter of encouragement written by the apostle Peter to the saints scattered throughout Asia Minor. Leading topic—The privilege of believers following the example of Christ, to have victory in the midst of trials, and to live holy lives in an unfriendly world.
In II Peter, He is your purity. Largely a warning against false teachers and scoffers.
In I John, He is your life. A deep spiritual message addressed by the apostle John to different classes of believers in the church. It lays great,t stress upon the believer's privilege of spiritual knowledge, the duty of fellowship and brotherly love.
In II John, He is your pattern. A brief message of John on divine truth and worldly error. Addressed to "The elect lady and her children." A warning against heresy and false teachers.
In III John, He is your motivation. An apostolic letter of commendation written to Gaius, containing character sketches of certain persons in the church.

In Jude, He is the foundation of your faith. Writer, probably the brother of James. Leading topics—Historical examples of apostasy and divine judgments upon sinners, together with warnings against immoral teachers.

In the Revelation, He is your coming King. Leading topics—Mainly a series of apoc alyptic visions dealing with events in re religious history. A great moral conflict is portrayed, between the divine and satanic powers, ending in the victory of the Lamb.
From the beginning of the world to its end, there is no place you can look and not see Jesus. He is everywhere. He is everything.
"He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together."-- Colossians 1:17

Author Unknown
Search the scriptures, for they are they which testify of me <---stated before the N.T. was written by JESUS

Abraham to the rich man burning in hell (concerning his 5 brothers) <----They have the Law and the Prophets....let them hear them......

I agree....JESUS is found in every book of the bible........and even though it is partially hidden...GRACE is found woven through the O.T.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
im sure none.

sadly many pentecostals teach works based salvation.

Nope,not true. Grew up Pentecostal, have preachers in my family, was in ministry 20yrs and traveled in hundreds of Pentecostal churches. None of the mainstream church teach work based salvation.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
I am 73 years old and live on the property my grandfather bought in 1901. So been here my entire life.
When I was younger, the local Pentecostal churches taught and practiced "speaking in tongues" but it was never their dominant thing and it was seldom talked about outside the local congregation.

Perhaps because they were mocked as "Holy rollers" and demonic.


Even thought there were other doctrinal differences, there seemed to be a friendly fellowship between all local churches.
As those older pastors died off and a new generation took their place, things began to change. Not just Pentecostal, but with all local churches.
But, the younger Pentecostal pastors began to more and more emphasize Tongues and began to teach that it was evidence of the Holy Spirit indwelling a believer. They taught, and still teach that no "speaking in tongues". no Holly Spirit, thus no salvation.

No Pentecostal church I have ever ministered in or attended teaches speaking in tongues is connected to salvation. Only holiness preaches that.


This is my personal dealing with Pentecostal. It is impossible to have any fellowship with them because of this attitude.

Not true in the least. I have friends from all denominations and we fellowship together often. I traveled and ministered in all denominations with no issues. Even the Catholics had us in a few times.



I must admit that this has made a very negative impression on me and cause me to have a very strong dislike for them.

Is that Christlike? You need to move beyond your circle and meet some people. It's 2019 out there. :)



While some on this forum have changed my mind to a degree, seems the loudest are just like my neighbors.
I am trying very hard to look at each individual and not group you all together.
Hope you will do the same for us Baptist.

I disagree 100% with OSAS and yet some of my dearest friends are Baptist and Calvinist. My husband isn't Calvinist but he was raised Baptist. We attend a non-denominal church with a Pentecostal pastor. Trust me, you can get past it. And that's not being sarcastic. We're all going to the same heaven. Better work it out down here.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

You want to worship the Lord in Spirit and truth? Worship the Lord through the word of God. The Holy Spirit will minister in the heart through the word of God.

Praying in tongues keeps the man from the truth. You cannot be edified if there is no knowledge of what you are praying. Without knowledge there can be no understanding. Without understanding there is no wisdom.

When I was young in the Lord I was taught that if the adversary cannot keep you from learning to pray his next best thing is to distract you from effectual prayer.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Welp, God's a liar. The things you learn on CC.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
What you are saying is very similar to what these local pentecostals are saying, and most on this forum.
You are implying that Your worship and fellowship with God is greater than mine. That my worship and service and prayer is less than yours simply because I do not speak in tongues.
You are in effect saying I am less a Christian and my relationship with my Lord is lacking.
And than you imply it is because I do not seek what is easy to get---I need help.
That is passing judgment that you have no authority to do.

And your statement about laying on of hands is totally wrong.
Read the thread by Vco or VOC whichever. Judgement goes both ways. Both sides are guilty.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
Do you believe that speaking in tongues is a sign of salvation?
No tongues, thus no Holy Spirit, and no salvation?

Nope. Don't know anyone that teaches that other than Holiness.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
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Nope,not true. Grew up Pentecostal, have preachers in my family, was in ministry 20yrs and traveled in hundreds of Pentecostal churches. None of the mainstream church teach work based salvation.
do you believe you can lose your salvation? most pentecostals do
thats works salvation. you have to keep doing something to maintain your salvation.


start in Spirit end in flesh = not good. galatians warns of that
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
do you believe you can lose your salvation? most pentecostals do
thats works salvation. you have to keep doing something to maintain your salvation.


start in Spirit end in flesh = not good. galatians warns of that
Umm anyone who isn't a Calvinist believes that and no that is not works. But that is not the subject of the OP and it's rude to derail. So we'll leave that be.
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
1,524
113
Umm anyone who isn't a Calvinist believes that and no that is not works. But that is not the subject of the OP and it's rude to derail. So we'll leave that be.
wrong dispensationalsts arent calvinists they beleive in eternal security as does dcon and e-g they arent calvinists either.

but ok lets let it be
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
And this is the problem------
People put more value on CREEDS and the teaching of men than on the Word.
From what I have read of CREEDS, they are the chief source of heresy.

I will just stick with my Bible.
I defy you to find error in the creeds. They were created between 212 and 500 by elders to define what a Christian must believe. At that time the elders saw many areas of disagreements. It continues to this day with the many gospel preaching denominations. Anything outside it was to agree to disagree. Thus the denominations. Anything contrary to it is heresy. This was long before the printing press. At that time Bibles were rare and very expensive. You are applying 21st century concepts to the early church. The creeds were memorized along with several sections of scripture. Back then it was common for people to memorize important documents since the cost of written documents was very expensive. Memorized creeds and sections of scripture were used to evangelize others. Think before you rant.
 
S

SpoonJuly

Guest
I defy you to find error in the creeds. They were created between 212 and 500 by elders to define what a Christian must believe. At that time the elders saw many areas of disagreements. It continues to this day with the many gospel preaching denominations. Anything outside it was to agree to disagree. Thus the denominations. Anything contrary to it is heresy. This was long before the printing press. At that time Bibles were rare and very expensive. You are applying 21st century concepts to the early church. The creeds were memorized along with several sections of scripture. Back then it was common for people to memorize important documents since the cost of written documents was very expensive. Memorized creeds and sections of scripture were used to evangelize others. Think before you rant.
I am not the one ranting, just stated my belief.
I also reject "21st century concepts".
If you choose to put the creed of men above the Word of God, that is your choice.
I just study and believe the Word of God. That is sufficient.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
wrong dispensationalsts arent calvinists they beleive in eternal security as does dcon and e-g they arent calvinists either.

but ok lets let it be
Like the early elders stated when they developed the creeds. The creeds define what a Christian must believe and everything outside it is to agree to disagree. They saw the disagreements and created the creeds. Each gospel preaching denomination has distinctives from the other denominations. Those are the agree to disagree areas. Calvinism, Arminianism and other views that are Biblical are allowed in Christianity.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I am not the one ranting, just stated my belief.
I also reject "21st century concepts".
If you choose to put the creed of men above the Word of God, that is your choice.
I just study and believe the Word of God. That is sufficient.
Like I stated. Find the errors before you reject what the early elders created before the printing press. They were used to evangelize and have a simple gospel message. Quit applying 21st century technology to the early church. Memorization was used instead of very expensive Bibles. Keep in mind a Bible was hand copied by scribes.