why didn't god have angels guarding the tree of knowledge before adam sinned?
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Hi @specialtogod, I'm afraid if God had chosen to do that, "free will" may not have happened either 
~Deut
~Deut
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Hi @specialtogod, I'm afraid if God had chosen to do that, "free will" may not have happened either
~Deut
~Deut
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Also, the cherub with the flaming sword doesn't guard the way into Eden, he just guarded/guards the Tree of Life to stop both our first parents and any of their progeny from eating its fruit, PTL (as getting older and older and never dying in this fallen state would be anything but good ).
The other thing is, there's no reason to guard the Tree of Knowledge from us. God commanded our progenitors not to eat from it, not us, and, of course, the bad stuff that God said would happen if they disobeyed Him has already occurred in full measure, both to our first parents, and to us and the rest of Creation through them.
~Deut
).The other thing is, there's no reason to guard the Tree of Knowledge from us. God commanded our progenitors not to eat from it, not us, and, of course, the bad stuff that God said would happen if they disobeyed Him has already occurred in full measure, both to our first parents, and to us and the rest of Creation through them.
~Deut
What I'm trying to get at is, is it true that there is no such thing as ftee will unless one has ability and opportunity to sin and do evil?
If that is the case then I have two other questions:
Does God have free will?
Will we have free will in heaven?
If the definition of free will is being able to do evil, those are, for me, tough things to chew on.
If that is the case then I have two other questions:
Does God have free will?
Will we have free will in heaven?
If the definition of free will is being able to do evil, those are, for me, tough things to chew on.
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There is God's sovereign Will, which encompasses everything in the sense that He is ultimately in control. And there is God's permissive Will. Things that may not be for our good but He allows us to do ultimately fulfilling His sovereign Will. (See Romans 8:28)
As far as "free will " goes, I do NOT believe we have it in the sense that we can choose to NOT sin PRIOR to conversion. It is IMPOSSIBLE to please God without faith. So how could we not sin before becoming born again?
Well, faith in what? Our faith in Him, that He exists, that He sent His Son to die for us and that He rose from the grave.
AFTER conversion, I believe we DO have free will to NOT sin, as we are empowered by the Holy Spirit. But once again, God's permissive Will allows His Children to sin. And there are consequences for His Children disobeying Him.
The question of free will in Heaven is an interesting, albeit kinda fruitless one. We pray NOW "Your Kingdom come, YOUR Will be done as it is in Heaven" How much MORE, in His actual Presence will we desire that?
I recognize that doing ANYTHING that isn't in HIS Will is bad for me, and pray for Him to make my will ALWAYS align with His Will. So I don't even think the free will in heaven will be a question. We will ALL want NOTHING more than to love Him and do His Will.
As far as "free will " goes, I do NOT believe we have it in the sense that we can choose to NOT sin PRIOR to conversion. It is IMPOSSIBLE to please God without faith. So how could we not sin before becoming born again?
Well, faith in what? Our faith in Him, that He exists, that He sent His Son to die for us and that He rose from the grave.
AFTER conversion, I believe we DO have free will to NOT sin, as we are empowered by the Holy Spirit. But once again, God's permissive Will allows His Children to sin. And there are consequences for His Children disobeying Him.
The question of free will in Heaven is an interesting, albeit kinda fruitless one. We pray NOW "Your Kingdom come, YOUR Will be done as it is in Heaven" How much MORE, in His actual Presence will we desire that?
I recognize that doing ANYTHING that isn't in HIS Will is bad for me, and pray for Him to make my will ALWAYS align with His Will. So I don't even think the free will in heaven will be a question. We will ALL want NOTHING more than to love Him and do His Will.
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Adam had free will before he sinned.....He could chose to eat of any tree in the garden so free will is not necessarily tied to a choice between good and evil......
God for sure has free will HAHA HE IS ACTUALLY A FORCE OF WILL but his Holy nature and character will not allow him to do certain things like LIE and we have already established that free will to choose is not necessarily tied to choosing between good and evil
Why not, but our will to choose will be dictated by our glorified state and fully regenerated mind......and like POINTS one and TWO.....free will is not necessarily the choice between good and evil
NOW...we often forget that the TREE was the tree that contained the KNOWLEDGE of both GOOD and EVIL.....and ADAM made the choice BEFORE he had knowledge of either......just some points to ponder
God for sure has free will HAHA HE IS ACTUALLY A FORCE OF WILL
but his Holy nature and character will not allow him to do certain things like LIE and we have already established that free will to choose is not necessarily tied to choosing between good and evilWhy not, but our will to choose will be dictated by our glorified state and fully regenerated mind......and like POINTS one and TWO.....free will is not necessarily the choice between good and evil
NOW...we often forget that the TREE was the tree that contained the KNOWLEDGE of both GOOD and EVIL.....and ADAM made the choice BEFORE he had knowledge of either......just some points to ponder
I'll certainly concur with:
"The question of free will in Heaven is an interesting, albeit kinda fruitless one. We pray NOW "Your Kingdom come, YOUR Will be done as it is in Heaven" How much MORE, in His actual Presence will we desire that?"
No such "critter" as free will, in a place where there's a "want for nothing!"
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There's no way to the garden.
The angel was placed Eastwards, if Adam wanted to access the tree, he would have easily accessed through the west but because these are symbolic and have a spiritual meaning, it was not possible for Adam to access the tree spiritually speaking.
East has always meant judgement in the spiritual sense.
The garden of Eden is symbolic of human heart, it was never a physical place, it will never be a place.
The ark of the covenant was also designed in a manner that reflects the garden of Eden but generally shows the human heart.
It had the law placed inside it and two Cherubim as its cover to protect the law inside it. Only the high priest had access to it.
All these is symbolic of our own hearts. God placed truth in the human heart and man lost it, God prevented man from getting to know the truth until Jesus came. Jesus is the tree of life and He is the truth we need to put in our hearts.
The angel was placed Eastwards, if Adam wanted to access the tree, he would have easily accessed through the west but because these are symbolic and have a spiritual meaning, it was not possible for Adam to access the tree spiritually speaking.
East has always meant judgement in the spiritual sense.
The garden of Eden is symbolic of human heart, it was never a physical place, it will never be a place.
The ark of the covenant was also designed in a manner that reflects the garden of Eden but generally shows the human heart.
It had the law placed inside it and two Cherubim as its cover to protect the law inside it. Only the high priest had access to it.
All these is symbolic of our own hearts. God placed truth in the human heart and man lost it, God prevented man from getting to know the truth until Jesus came. Jesus is the tree of life and He is the truth we need to put in our hearts.
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If it's not true that you don't really have free self will unless it's exercised then it's not true that Adam wouldn't have had free self will if the tree of knowledge had been somehow fenced off.
'you're not really free unless you go ahead and sin' seems to me to be a lie the serpent may have told. Some people think that way, that you aren't truly free until you disobey. But if this is true will will be truly free in glory? And if we are, what prevents us from falling again, like Satan did?
'you're not really free unless you go ahead and sin' seems to me to be a lie the serpent may have told. Some people think that way, that you aren't truly free until you disobey. But if this is true will will be truly free in glory? And if we are, what prevents us from falling again, like Satan did?
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There must be a way to the garden
Maybe the east gate controlled the gates somehow.
I didn't know that. Thanks.
I believe Eden is symbolic of Heaven and is a real place.
Or they're symbolic of God's heart. Here's something weird,
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same. Eze.44:1-3
I'm not sure about all these things, but I do believe this creation God made is an image of heavenly things. Have any thoughts on that?
Maybe the east gate controlled the gates somehow.
I didn't know that. Thanks.
I believe Eden is symbolic of Heaven and is a real place.
Or they're symbolic of God's heart. Here's something weird,
Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same. Eze.44:1-3
I'm not sure about all these things, but I do believe this creation God made is an image of heavenly things. Have any thoughts on that?