why didn't god have angels guarding the tree of knowledge before adam sinned?

[dcontroversal]

No we don't, we breathe in air and there's a way Oxygen defuses into the blood.

HAHAHAHHAHHAHA wow man.....have another glass......

The air you breathe is made up of lots of other things besides oxygen! Oxygen only makes up about 21% of air. About 78% of the air you breathe is made up of another gas called nitrogen. There are also tiny amounts of other gases like argon, carbon dioxide and methane.

 

[stonesoffire]

I would think the reason would be more simple. He gave Adam the authority to rule the garden.

 

[Noose]

There must be a way to the garden
Maybe the east gate controlled the gates somehow.

The garden being a human heart, has no paths leading it. The way God fashioned the human heart is a mystery:

Ecc 3:9What do workers gain from their toil? 10I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet a no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

I believe Eden is symbolic of Heaven and is a real place.

Heaven as used in the NT is also not a place but the human heart.
One theme that occurs throughout the bible is in the form a question: Will God dwell in a house built by human hands? The answer to this is a resounding NO because God has fashioned the human heart to be His dwelling place forever and this is what we call heaven. The end result:

Rev 21:2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. Theywill be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.

Or they're symbolic of God's heart. Here's something weird,

Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same. Eze.44:1-3

I'm not sure about all these things, but I do believe this creation God made is an image of heavenly things. Have any thoughts on that?

East means judgement. It is a common theme in Ezekiel. And judgement is of the heart.

 

[Noose]

HAHAHAHHAHHAHA wow man.....have another glass......

The air you breathe is made up of lots of other things besides oxygen! Oxygen only makes up about 21% of air. About 78% of the air you breathe is made up of another gas called nitrogen. There are also tiny amounts of other gases like argon, carbon dioxide and methane.

Now you have started talking, after all, we don't breathe in Oxygen but air (the one you refer to as mixture of gases). Did you know pure Oxygen is toxic to life?

 

[Noose]

He was there to protect the way to the tree of life.

The garden is paradise. Life and fruit come from God. One human showed us the way that's guarded.

Isa 51:
1Listen to Me, you who pursue righteousness,
you who seek the LORD:
Look to the rock from which you were cut,
and to the quarry from which you were hewn.

2Look to Abraham your father,
and to Sarah who bore you.
When I called him, he was but one;
then I blessed him and multiplied him.

3For the LORD will comfort Zion
and look with compassion on all her ruins;
He will make her wilderness like Eden
and her desert like the garden of the LORD.
Joy and gladness will be found in her,
thanksgiving and melodious song.

4Pay attention to Me, My people,
and listen to Me, My nation;
for a law will go out from Me,
and My justice will become a light to the nations;
I will bring it about quickly.

.....
16I have put My words in your mouth,
and covered you in the shadow of My hand,
to establisha the heavens, to found the earth,
and to say to Zion, “You are My people.”



This is very telling. God compares righteousness to the garden of Eden because He puts His law in the hearts of the righteous.

 

[stonesoffire]

I see this a bit differently Noose.

The law that goes out from God would be Jesus wouldn't it? He was the Word (law) walking and did come out from Father. Justice with mercy came from Him. And He is the Light to the nations. We carry His light.

Plus, is the angel now keeping others out? Or is the angel now welcoming us home? Who is this angel with the flaming sword?

Do we go back to Paradise upon death? I've heard this but I haven't seen it in scripture.

 

[Noose]

I see this a bit differently Noose.

The law that goes out from God would be Jesus wouldn't it? He was the Word (law) walking and did come out from Father. Justice with mercy came from Him. And He is the Light to the nations. We carry His light.

Plus, is the angel now keeping others out? Or is the angel now welcoming us home? Who is this angel with the flaming sword?

Do we go back to Paradise upon death? I've heard this but I haven't seen it in scripture.

That's right. Jesus is the law, the word, the light- He is God. He is also the tree of life:

Rev 22:1Then the angel showed me a river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2down the middle of the main street of the city. On either side of the river stood a tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit and yielding a fresh crop for each month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

IMO, the whole story about the garden of Eden is symbolic of a human heart. There's no place where truth resides apart from the heart(mind). Truth can not reside in a physical garden.

There's no angel physically guarding a garden and a tree and there's no way any human would have known the truth until Jesus came and died on the cross to give up His spirit for us. That spirit, the spirit of truth is what we need to keep and guard in our hearts. Even the saints of the old were only promised.

Soon upon death of a saint, their spirit transitions and joins others in a joyous assembly found in the hearts of living believers.

 

[dcontroversal]

Now you have started talking, after all, we don't breathe in Oxygen but air (the one you refer to as mixture of gases). Did you know pure Oxygen is toxic to life?

Too much is for sure.......and even an adult can only handle 100% pure oxygen for a short period of time......

 

[posthuman]

The garden being a human heart, has no paths leading it.

Have you tried food...?

 

[Noose]

Have you tried food...?

Yes, why?!

 

[Lanolin]

Answer to OP I dont know but God did warn them about it and His warning should have been enough, its just that adam and eve didnt listen.

Another interesting thing is the serpent was maybe not doing his job! Instead of telling eve to go away from the tree he was tempting her. Which is why the serpent got punished as well.

 

[oyster67]

Since a cherub stands in the way to Eden now, with a flaming sword, do you have no free will?

Trick question? In the sense of "can we choose to not have sin imputed at birth?" The answer would be 'No'.

 

[posthuman]

Yes, why?!

They say it's the way to a lot of people's heart

 

[oyster67]

What I'm trying to get at is, is it true that there is no such thing as ftee will unless one has ability and opportunity to sin and do evil?

If that is the case then I have two other questions:
Does God have free will?
Will we have free will in heaven?

If the definition of free will is being able to do evil, those are, for me, tough things to chew on.

I think you are right about the chewiness of it.

I like to put a happy face on free will. I think of it as a wonderful opportunity to win battles in the name of the Lord through His power!

 

[oyster67]

what prevents us from falling again, like Satan did?

Lack of temptation.

 

[Journeyman]

The garden being a human heart, has no paths leading it. The way God fashioned the human heart is a mystery:

Ecc 3:9What do workers gain from their toil? 10I have seen the burden God has laid on the human race. 11He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet a no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

Adam was expelled from the garden. He wasn't expelled from his heart.

Heaven as used in the NT is also not a place but the human heart.
One theme that occurs throughout the bible is in the form a question: Will God dwell in a house built by human hands? The answer to this is a resounding NO because God has fashioned the human heart to be His dwelling place forever and this is what we call heaven. The end result:

Rev 21:2I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying: “Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man, and He will live with them. Theywill be His people, and God Himself will be with them as their God.

The Bible also says,

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer.17:9

Does God dwell in everyone's heart? I don't believe he does. So it seems more likely that in some sense, we're the ones being admitted into his presence.

East means judgement. It is a common theme in Ezekiel. And judgement is of the heart.

Then we better see things correctly, so that our hearts are right,

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1Jn.3:20

 

[Noose]

Adam was expelled from the garden. He wasn't expelled from his heart.

The Bible also says,

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jer.17:9

Does God dwell in everyone's heart? I don't believe he does. So it seems more likely that in some sense, we're the ones being admitted into his presence.

Then we better see things correctly, so that our hearts are right,

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 1Jn.3:20

Like i said, the way God created is a mystery. The story about the garden of Eden is all symbolic. IMO, God created a perfect human heart and put all His statutes in there, but man lost it. God prevented man from 'rediscovering' the truth until some generations passed when He in the form of Jesus came as a man to correct the situation.

Please read Ezek 28 and explain what you think it means. It is the story of Eden in another version.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Is eating of the tree the only possible way Adam could have sinned?

Hi Posthuman, as they say of the poisoned apple, "one bite is all it takes". IOW, it wouldn't have mattered if there was another way for our progenitors to sin, the damage was already done.

That said however, their situation was unique. Adam and Eve were given one commandment, and one commandment only to obey (with stated consequences) directly from God. There were no other "commandments/laws" at that time, so while there may have been many other ways for them to sin, "sin is not imputed when there is no law" .. Rom 5:13. This unique situation has not occurred since that time, but of course, their situation, in general, was as unique as it gets, yes (they are the progenitors, we, their progeny .. they were created by God, interestingly in two different ways, we are all begotten of them and the generations of our ancestors, not created directly by God).

The sad thing is, they both had a neutral nature (not a fallen one, like us), so they had true liberty of choice, which is something we all lack. Unfortunately, they made a poor choice (even though they were completely free to do otherwise), perhaps the worst choice anyone has ever made, and the rest is "amazing" history (amazing only because of God's immediate response to redeem both them and us, knowing what the cost would be for Him to do so ).

~Deut

Ecclesiastes 7
29 Behold, I have found only this, that God made men upright, but they have sought out many devices.​

.

 

[Deuteronomy]

If the definition of free will is being able to do evil, those are, for me, tough things to chew on.

Hi again Posthuman, the best definition of "free will" IMHO is this, free will is, "the ability to choose what we desire the most at any given moment in time".

~Deut

 

[Deuteronomy]

Does God have free will?
Will we have free will in heaven?

Yes and yes

God's will is perfectly free, so He will never sin, because 1. His greatest desire at any moment is for holiness and righteousness and purity, and 2. there are no 3rd party, outside forces that can influence His choices.

And as for us in the next age, remember what St. John tells us in His first Epistle,

1 John 3​

2 Beloved, now we are the children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when He appears, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as he is.​

In the age to come, Christians (who will no longer be burdened with our "old self" rearing its ugly head anymore) will be like God in many ways (perfect in holiness and righteousness, for instance), so just like Him, we will ~never~ choose to sin in Heaven/on the New Earth If we did, it would mean that our wills are ~NOT~ free!!

~Deut
.