Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14
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Now you're lying. That is not in Scripture... anywhere. Amazingly, you are so concerned about people adding to Scripture, but that is what you are doing here.
That's ridiculous and contrary to sound reasoning.
No it isn't; they are clearly distinguished in Scripture.
No it doesn't. You are mixing up bits of several unrelated verses.
Refuted... repeatedly.
Quote the person or people who claim this, or drop it. Your repeated use of this unidentified "they" is dishonest.
You may have responded, but you have not defended your position. You also misrepresent the whole discussion here.
That's ridiculous and contrary to sound reasoning.
No it isn't; they are clearly distinguished in Scripture.
No it doesn't. You are mixing up bits of several unrelated verses.
Refuted... repeatedly.
Quote the person or people who claim this, or drop it. Your repeated use of this unidentified "they" is dishonest.
You may have responded, but you have not defended your position. You also misrepresent the whole discussion here.
I am glad to see you finally are getting acuate on my comments. Secondly, Montanist was not a cult when it started. Also, the term glossolalia was not mentioned because it was a Greek word. Martin Luther and others of the reformed did use the term "Spiritual utterances". That is in context to the Gift of Tongues And prophesying. The Church fathers and reformed founders did not use the word "glossolalia" as you tried here. FYI Luther spoke German.
AD - Apostolic Doctrine, AIS File Library
With the birth of Reformation, the Catholic Church no longer asserts iron rule among the Church world. The instances of tongues becomes more and more frequent, beginning with Matin Luther. In a German work, Sourer’s History of the Christian Church” it is stated that, Dr. Martin Luther was a prophet, evangelist, speaker in tongues, and interpreter, in one person, endowed with all the gifts of the Holy Spirit.”
“Soon following Luther came the French sect known as the Jansenists. This group arose in the Roman Catholic Church after the Council of Trent and was subjected to persecution following the issuance in 1705 of a bill condemning them. After persecution began, speaking in tongues was reported among this group.[/QUOTE]
There is no Single evidence in the churchhistory that it was taught that speaking in tongues is the Proof that somebody is filled ore baptised with the Holy Spirit.
A man namend Greg Loren Durand wrote a Position Papier in which he quotet the Institution from Calvin, the Westminster confession, Dr. Martin Luther( Commentarys to psalm119) Spuergeon, and B.B. Warfield who all taught that the Special gifts like speaking in tongues, and prophecies was for a Special purpose in the Early Church. And they finished when the purpose was fulfilled.
You mentioned Theodor Sauer who said in his book that Luther had all gifts.( He gave no Source for his claiming.)
Why then in German ( i speak a little bit german)I cant find any Hint that Martin Luther has the Gift of healings. Ore the gift of speaking in tongues? Nowhere he taught that speaking in tongues is the proof to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. I grew up as protestant and was taught in their doctrine.
You know that Luther taught Baby baptism? He persecutet believers who taught that First believe and then baptising (anabaptists). Maby you should research more detailed.
The same with Montanus the founder of montanism. He was an false Prophet and claimed forhimself to be the paraklet.
So if you can find some more detailed facts that this was taught i would be thankful.
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interesting
so you believe that you are ok because someone is going to get it more than you?
how about lying? do you ever feel convicted of that?
Waggles has said none of the things you attribute to him
your gospel is no gospel at all. in fact, I don't think most of you cessationists know what the actual gospel is or how it is to be delivered to those God sends it to
4 For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. I Thess. 1
see the above? the gospel is not just words but also power and the conviction of the Holy Spirit
when the true biblical gospel is preached, God will bless it with the moving of the Holy Spirit among those gathered
this powerless, Holy Spirit-less, conviction-less and sit on the pew and I am saved lie that is preached by some here is not the gospel at all
a one hour gotta break it up at noon for lunch meeting is not what God intended
so you believe that you are ok because someone is going to get it more than you?
how about lying? do you ever feel convicted of that?
Waggles has said none of the things you attribute to him
your gospel is no gospel at all. in fact, I don't think most of you cessationists know what the actual gospel is or how it is to be delivered to those God sends it to
4 For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5 because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. I Thess. 1
see the above? the gospel is not just words but also power and the conviction of the Holy Spirit
when the true biblical gospel is preached, God will bless it with the moving of the Holy Spirit among those gathered
this powerless, Holy Spirit-less, conviction-less and sit on the pew and I am saved lie that is preached by some here is not the gospel at all
a one hour gotta break it up at noon for lunch meeting is not what God intended
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this is a grave error. this is false teaching and not biblical
the woman you are addressing has never said and NO ONE here has EVER said that water baptism saves...not in this thread
you contradict scripture at every turn and now you are speaking things that are not true and attributing them to a member here who has posted scripture at every turn
and you are not concerned in the least. God may hold you to that one day. whatever answer you dream up for Him, will be dismissed as easily as the words you speak that are not true. lies originate from the heart
are you actually a believer? your words seem to suggest you might not be but I don't want to form that judgement
I simply question how you think you can lie with liberty and the rest of us should believe you are saved
liars do no enter heaven
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water baptism is a work of men?
please show us in scripture where that portion of the word confirms what you purpose as part of your lie against a believer who has never said what you say they said
confused? of course because you have confused being baptized in the Holy Spirit and being baptized in water as a confession of your belief in Christ and is symbolic of His death and resurrection...you would have it be something else
please show us in scripture where that portion of the word confirms what you purpose as part of your lie against a believer who has never said what you say they said
confused? of course because you have confused being baptized in the Holy Spirit and being baptized in water as a confession of your belief in Christ and is symbolic of His death and resurrection...you would have it be something else
Listen up there is the implication that water baptism is essential as the time and place when Holy Spirit baptism occurs. That is what is unbiblical and a false message concerning salvation.
I give you biblical truth and you call me a liar.
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I give you biblical truth and you call me a liar.
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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listen up? most believers did seem to be baptized at conversion...WATER baptized and not the confusing and erroneous teaching that you are baptized in the Holy Spirit at conversion
who has changed this down through the centuries?
I have not called you a liar but honestly, you do lie ...so if the shoe fits....you have just called yourself one
Isaiah would cringe at your deceptive and false use of his words
He didn't say them so you could benefit because you are past benefiting from them or you would judge yourself first
flinging verses like rapid fire machine gun bursts seems to be your emotional release
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men are allowed to put their hands on people and pray they receive the infilling of the Holy Spirit. scripture allows for that
God does work through people but He does not limit Himself to putting hands on others and praying as the events on the day of Pentecost attest
water baptism is an ordinance and not a demand made by people
at least that is what scripture tells us. I know you prefer to argue over it though
God does work through people but He does not limit Himself to putting hands on others and praying as the events on the day of Pentecost attest
water baptism is an ordinance and not a demand made by people
at least that is what scripture tells us. I know you prefer to argue over it though
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Ya have to wonder what people are reading. To say no one here thinks we are saved by water baptism is just not true.
If they can not see this, it just shows they probably are missing other stuff too.
well I didn't say that
I said IN THIS THREAD
take it to the top or scrape it at the bottom
I really don't care
you are dishonest in your representations of others as well
a person cannot have an honest conversation with you because you will misrepresent what it is they have said or twist their intentions
only you know if you do that on purpose or just honestly do not understand
either way I don't care. not going to answer you whatever you say...I just wanted to set the record straight that you are twisting my words and mocking
If they can not see this, it just shows they probably are missing other stuff too.
well I didn't say that
I said IN THIS THREAD
take it to the top or scrape it at the bottom
I really don't care
you are dishonest in your representations of others as well
a person cannot have an honest conversation with you because you will misrepresent what it is they have said or twist their intentions
only you know if you do that on purpose or just honestly do not understand
either way I don't care. not going to answer you whatever you say...I just wanted to set the record straight that you are twisting my words and mocking
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when the scoffing, word twisting and false accusations begin, we can know that it's like the big bad wolf saying he will huff and puff and blow your house down
God is a mighty fortress and no one is going to blow that away with empty words and accusations
this is supposed to be a Bible discussion forum but we cannot ever actually discuss the Bible because of this gang of thugs who bully and mock and scoff and tell us that what the Bible says is not what the Bible says
they are a Bible unto themselves and demand we believe them rather than the Holy Spirit inspired Bibles we have
so we all choose day after day after day
this thread and others like it are grievous and the Holy Spirit is grieved. I cannot read most of the cessationist responses without feeling it deep inside and how evil the attacks are
God knows I am not lying nor exaggerating. I grieve over this mess you have created and have the nerve to call the truth
the Holy Spirit is not a tool at your disposal
God is merciful and long suffering and longs for you to repent of your words and accusations against those who testify to you that the Holy Spirit is still out-poured and God is still calling
I will leave you to it. every day you choose. day after day after day
God is a mighty fortress and no one is going to blow that away with empty words and accusations
this is supposed to be a Bible discussion forum but we cannot ever actually discuss the Bible because of this gang of thugs who bully and mock and scoff and tell us that what the Bible says is not what the Bible says
they are a Bible unto themselves and demand we believe them rather than the Holy Spirit inspired Bibles we have
so we all choose day after day after day
this thread and others like it are grievous and the Holy Spirit is grieved. I cannot read most of the cessationist responses without feeling it deep inside and how evil the attacks are
God knows I am not lying nor exaggerating. I grieve over this mess you have created and have the nerve to call the truth
the Holy Spirit is not a tool at your disposal
God is merciful and long suffering and longs for you to repent of your words and accusations against those who testify to you that the Holy Spirit is still out-poured and God is still calling
I will leave you to it. every day you choose. day after day after day
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when the scoffing, word twisting and false accusations begin, we can know that it's like the big bad wolf saying he will huff and puff and blow your house down
God is a mighty fortress and no one is going to blow that away with empty words and accusations
this is supposed to be a Bible discussion forum but we cannot ever actually discuss the Bible because of this gang of thugs who bully and mock and scoff and tell us that what the Bible says is not what the Bible says
they are a Bible unto themselves and demand we believe them rather than the Holy Spirit inspired Bibles we have
so we all choose day after day after day
this thread and others like it are grievous and the Holy Spirit is grieved. I cannot read most of the cessationist responses without feeling it deep inside and how evil the attacks are
God knows I am not lying nor exaggerating. I grieve over this mess you have created and have the nerve to call the truth
the Holy Spirit is not a tool at your disposal
God is merciful and long suffering and longs for you to repent of your words and accusations against those who testify to you that the Holy Spirit is still out-poured and God is still calling
I will leave you to it. every day you choose. day after day after day
God is a mighty fortress and no one is going to blow that away with empty words and accusations
this is supposed to be a Bible discussion forum but we cannot ever actually discuss the Bible because of this gang of thugs who bully and mock and scoff and tell us that what the Bible says is not what the Bible says
they are a Bible unto themselves and demand we believe them rather than the Holy Spirit inspired Bibles we have
so we all choose day after day after day
this thread and others like it are grievous and the Holy Spirit is grieved. I cannot read most of the cessationist responses without feeling it deep inside and how evil the attacks are
God knows I am not lying nor exaggerating. I grieve over this mess you have created and have the nerve to call the truth
the Holy Spirit is not a tool at your disposal
God is merciful and long suffering and longs for you to repent of your words and accusations against those who testify to you that the Holy Spirit is still out-poured and God is still calling
I will leave you to it. every day you choose. day after day after day
There is hope for you as long as the Holy Spirit continues to convict your heart. God is still calling those who have strayed from Him.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Just for the record. My response was to what was said about no one saying we are baptized by water for salvation in this thread.
She has a habit of claiming I misrepresent people. When in fact is is her doing the misrepresenting.
Sadly, Because she had to respond back, and try to attack my character. I was forced to PROVE her a liar. By going back to prove that people IN THIS THREAD have done the very thing she insists NO ONE IN ThiS THREAD has done.
Anyway here goes
As you can see, This poster believes our washing, our remmision of sin, Our spiritual circumcision or spiritual cleansing, which saves us (col 2) is accomplish by water baptism. This post is on page 7 of this thread.
Here is another person, who thinks we recieve remissions via water baptism, WHich essentially says, Our sins are washed away and we are saved at water baptism.
The third one is found on page 21 of this thread. (And these are not the only three that these and others have insisted our remission of sin is not accomplished UNTIL we are water baptised!)
And here is number 3 (actually the only one I remembered. This user is always preaching water baptismal regeneration (remission of sin)
And news flash. If one teaches our sins are remitted at water baptism, they are in FACT teaching that we can not be saved APART from water baptism. Thus replacing baptism of the spirit (the baptism of God) with baptism in water by some man,
I would ask for an apology from said user, But I would be asking to much, She will somehow still try to wiggle out of it and say they are not saying what they CLEARLY are saying.
She has a habit of claiming I misrepresent people. When in fact is is her doing the misrepresenting.
Sadly, Because she had to respond back, and try to attack my character. I was forced to PROVE her a liar. By going back to prove that people IN THIS THREAD have done the very thing she insists NO ONE IN ThiS THREAD has done.
Anyway here goes
As you can see, This poster believes our washing, our remmision of sin, Our spiritual circumcision or spiritual cleansing, which saves us (col 2) is accomplish by water baptism. This post is on page 7 of this thread.
Here is another person, who thinks we recieve remissions via water baptism, WHich essentially says, Our sins are washed away and we are saved at water baptism.
The third one is found on page 21 of this thread. (And these are not the only three that these and others have insisted our remission of sin is not accomplished UNTIL we are water baptised!)
And here is number 3 (actually the only one I remembered. This user is always preaching water baptismal regeneration (remission of sin)
And news flash. If one teaches our sins are remitted at water baptism, they are in FACT teaching that we can not be saved APART from water baptism. Thus replacing baptism of the spirit (the baptism of God) with baptism in water by some man,
I would ask for an apology from said user, But I would be asking to much, She will somehow still try to wiggle out of it and say they are not saying what they CLEARLY are saying.