Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14
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Sigh ....
All this endless debate ....
1 Cor 14 ...
Paul says put a leash on it but do not forbid it ....
Very clearly, do not forbid ....
Discern, test, but do not forbid ...
Time and place, but do not forbid ....
Not all will but do not forbid ...
Better silence than error but do not forbid ...
So many things up for interpretation ...
apparently also the meaning of do not forbid.
All this endless debate ....
1 Cor 14 ...
Paul says put a leash on it but do not forbid it ....
Very clearly, do not forbid ....
Discern, test, but do not forbid ...
Time and place, but do not forbid ....
Not all will but do not forbid ...
Better silence than error but do not forbid ...
So many things up for interpretation ...
apparently also the meaning of do not forbid.
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Here is truth and nothing but truth from him who is truth ...
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,
and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
The gospel of Mark 16:
If you will not believe Jesus you certainly won't believe anyone here on Christian Chat.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,
and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
The gospel of Mark 16:
If you will not believe Jesus you certainly won't believe anyone here on Christian Chat.
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Strong's states differently.
Also, I have seen no response to my follow up concerning your comment that baptism referred to in Acts 2:38 was not water baptism:
Please respond to what we were discussing. It was whether Acts 2:38 reference to baptism in Jesus name is water baptism. Notice that the name of Jesus was used during water baptisms not Holy Ghost baptisms:
It is recorded that some were water baptized PRIOR to receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)
Also, I have seen no response to my follow up concerning your comment that baptism referred to in Acts 2:38 was not water baptism:
Please respond to what we were discussing. It was whether Acts 2:38 reference to baptism in Jesus name is water baptism. Notice that the name of Jesus was used during water baptisms not Holy Ghost baptisms:
It is recorded that some were water baptized PRIOR to receiving the infilling of the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)
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Acts 2:38 is not water baptism. Water baptism does not remit sin. The only baptism that has the power to remit sin is Holy Spirit baptism.
If you make water baptism essential for salvation you diminish the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
Best example of water baptism is seen in Acts 8:36
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you make water baptism essential for salvation you diminish the grace of God and the blood of Christ.
Best example of water baptism is seen in Acts 8:36
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Hi Dino thanks for the reply
Prophecy, as it is written (God's word) are not the only words God ever spoke. Every God inspired conversation was not written down .But that which is written is adequate for God to be heard on high. Its like John 22 account. This is when Peter again made a attempt in his pride to add to the scriptures through a oral tradition of the fathers. that do make the word of God without effect. And is why Jesus called him a liar when starting a Rumor .
Christ told the disciples if every time he rebuked the father of lies as he did with Peter again and again and it was written down the whole world would not be able to contain the books that could be written .One example is a enough for a believer.
I don't think it matters what they claim. Its what they do.
Tongues is a manner of prophecy as one of the many used. Balaam's Ass another manner used to represent a unbeliever is another to show us God is not served with human hands in any way shape or form .A unbeliever can bring the gospel and Christ can apply the seed. . or drawing straws like with Matthias, or men who bow down to drink compared to those who do not. Divers manners and in the these last day he has spoken through His Son .
Tongues is simply one of the many manner God did bring new prophecy when it was possible .That possibility is sealed up with 7 seals to the end. If men are making sounds without meaning . They are establishing new revelations (false prophets ) . The Bible informs us he will send them a strong delusion so they can believe the lie.
Nothing changes nothing. What does the sign confirm ? Unbelief, no faith or faith, belief ? It cannot represent both?
I would offer of course sign seekers do not claim outwardly they are brining new prophecy. The word they do bring have no meaning. And a private interpretation must be sought after. Which we are warned not to seek after the will of men as the approval of men !
What they are looking for as it seems is something, even a peep, to confirm something outwardly as a "sign gift".
The scriptures informs us those who walk after the things seen, the temporal have received their reward . No such thing as a "sign gift" Gift of faith not of ourselves..... yes.
They say a person must have something outwardly to confirm something outwardly or they have no evidence of the Holy Spirit. .
And the idea that unbelievers , along with Cornelius and his companions must be must be there or the sign does not exist. I have answered before.
It's like if a tree falls in the forest and no human hear it. Did it make a noise?
Prophecy, as it is written (God's word) are not the only words God ever spoke. Every God inspired conversation was not written down .But that which is written is adequate for God to be heard on high. Its like John 22 account. This is when Peter again made a attempt in his pride to add to the scriptures through a oral tradition of the fathers. that do make the word of God without effect. And is why Jesus called him a liar when starting a Rumor .
Christ told the disciples if every time he rebuked the father of lies as he did with Peter again and again and it was written down the whole world would not be able to contain the books that could be written .One example is a enough for a believer.
I don't think it matters what they claim. Its what they do.
Tongues is a manner of prophecy as one of the many used. Balaam's Ass another manner used to represent a unbeliever is another to show us God is not served with human hands in any way shape or form .A unbeliever can bring the gospel and Christ can apply the seed. . or drawing straws like with Matthias, or men who bow down to drink compared to those who do not. Divers manners and in the these last day he has spoken through His Son .
Tongues is simply one of the many manner God did bring new prophecy when it was possible .That possibility is sealed up with 7 seals to the end. If men are making sounds without meaning . They are establishing new revelations (false prophets ) . The Bible informs us he will send them a strong delusion so they can believe the lie.
Nothing changes nothing. What does the sign confirm ? Unbelief, no faith or faith, belief ? It cannot represent both?
I would offer of course sign seekers do not claim outwardly they are brining new prophecy. The word they do bring have no meaning. And a private interpretation must be sought after. Which we are warned not to seek after the will of men as the approval of men !
What they are looking for as it seems is something, even a peep, to confirm something outwardly as a "sign gift".
The scriptures informs us those who walk after the things seen, the temporal have received their reward . No such thing as a "sign gift" Gift of faith not of ourselves..... yes.
They say a person must have something outwardly to confirm something outwardly or they have no evidence of the Holy Spirit. .
And the idea that unbelievers , along with Cornelius and his companions must be must be there or the sign does not exist. I have answered before.
It's like if a tree falls in the forest and no human hear it. Did it make a noise?
It is evident from your comment that you see what Acts 2:38 conveys. Unfortunately, you refuse to accept what you clearly see in scripture.
Those baptized in the name of Jesus Christ were baptized in water.
The established concept of one's need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is indisputable. The following scriptures confirm the meaning of what Peter stated in Acts 2:38; repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)
Those baptized in the name of Jesus Christ were baptized in water.
The established concept of one's need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is indisputable. The following scriptures confirm the meaning of what Peter stated in Acts 2:38; repent, be water baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and receive the Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)
I know you really need water baptism to have some power to save. It does not and it does not matter if it's in Jesus name of the name of God. There simply is not supernatural incantation that must be performed to cleanse souls from their sin.
We place our trust in Jesus to save us because He said He would save us. We do not place our trust in water baptism. We believe in Jesus name because there is no other name under heaven whereby men must be saved. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess but not every soul will be water baptized.
If your soteriology were more biblical you would forsake some of these behaviors that you manifest that are very religious but of no eternal value.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
We place our trust in Jesus to save us because He said He would save us. We do not place our trust in water baptism. We believe in Jesus name because there is no other name under heaven whereby men must be saved. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess but not every soul will be water baptized.
If your soteriology were more biblical you would forsake some of these behaviors that you manifest that are very religious but of no eternal value.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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ALL of God's Word is given for instruction, correction, etc. and will forever stand true. Keep in mind, it alone will be what everyone will be judged upon. And that certainly includes the words recorded in the Book of Mark.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
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I have continued to back up the position that water baptism as well as Holy Ghost baptism is what is being expressed in Acts 2:38. I provided scripture in this exchange whereas you continue to throw your focus on me personally.
Do you see what baptism includes the use of the name of Jesus in the following scriptures? I am sure you do and the scriptures confirm the message Peter gave of the Day of Pentecost:
Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)
Do you see what baptism includes the use of the name of Jesus in the following scriptures? I am sure you do and the scriptures confirm the message Peter gave of the Day of Pentecost:
Acts 8:12-17
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 19:2-6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (water baptism in the name of Jesus as commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38)
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (received the baptism of the Holy Ghost)
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it is my understanding that in order to be released from such a thing, a person has to WANT it
apparently, these folks have chosen their desires and made them evident here
however, I agree with you that those who are being deceived by some of these charlatans would indeed receive freedom in Christ and be released from religious spirits
can you imagine one person even put a laughing head on your post. even the demons know better than to mock but here we have these people who choose to mock and all understanding has been denied them
there was a time I cared but now I am leaning towards set the captive free but let the captors remain
we do choose
S
Not nearly as much as those who when they stand before God and try to convince Him they are worthy to enter Heaven because of their water baptism, speaking in tongues, and all the other wonderful works they did in this lifetime.
Waggles continues to proclaim a false Gospel and all should read his post very carefully before agreeing with him.
Waggles continues to proclaim a false Gospel and all should read his post very carefully before agreeing with him.
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L
Ok I have a serious question. I personally believe in the gifts of the spirit, yes even speaking in tongues as qualified by the text of scripture.
Where are the texts that support "holy laughter", " drunk in the spirit", body convulsions, and running wildly around the church building?
Where are the texts that support "holy laughter", " drunk in the spirit", body convulsions, and running wildly around the church building?
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You continue to labor in error. God is not concerned with water baptism. Only Holy Spirit baptism which is received the moment we believe is efficacious for salvation.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
I am concerned that you do not have a false hope based on water when you need genuine knowledge of the Holy Spirit to be saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
I am concerned that you do not have a false hope based on water when you need genuine knowledge of the Holy Spirit to be saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
haha...I guess wanting to sit beside Jesus on thrones up in heaven was something else then
that cat needs to 'get your tongue'
you are racking up judgement for yourself
that cat needs to 'get your tongue'
you are racking up judgement for yourself
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
How could adhering to the instructions given by Jesus cause one to regret their actions on judgment day? Jesus stated that His word alone will be the judge:
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jesus' own words:
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.
Mark 16:16-20
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
Peter's instructions line up with Jesus' words.
Acts 2:38-42
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
John 12:48
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Jesus' own words:
Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.
Mark 16:16-20
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
And they went forth, and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following.
Peter's instructions line up with Jesus' words.
Acts 2:38-42
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
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