Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

[eternally-gratefull]

I do believe there will be a literal fulfillment, in the post you quoted from me it ends "I do believe he will,,,, right after this one runs it's coarse in time"

Now if you consider the differences between what we are speaking of the only major difference is that you and others are pre trib. pre wrath pre mill....(no offense,lol) and so from that point the beast exist and begins to fulfill the things in Scripture "after the Rapture" and so there's no reason for any to look at the events unfolding as if they pertain to to the beast,two horned beast because it is seen as future tense to them being raptured.

Thats illogical reasoning as to use this to prove there is no form of rapture pre wrath. It is like saying to the jews. Your going to reject the messiah when he comes anyway, So why bother following God at all? Just be like the gentile. Because your future is doomed. Eat drink and be merry.

They could no more understand the hidden mystery of future events than we can in reality. So anyone who thinks they do not have to worry because their may be a rapture is foolish. Not to mention. What if you THINK your saved and your not. And this rapture happens and your left behind, But sent a delusion? What hope do you have then?

If is best to live our lives as God said in the first place. Do not worry about tomorrow. Live for today. That should be all peoples mindset.

On the other hand in a post trib. pre wrath pre mill, frame of mind then those who see this will look for the fulfillment of the deception,that beast kingdom, that tribulation,two horned beast,mark ect.and then the rapture and the mill, kingdom(I have gave those models in my prior post).

Same as above, We do not live our lives based on how we think the end will occure. We shoudl live our lives as if the end will be any day, That means our focus is on today and the world. And preaching the gospel more, especially when we see the birth pangs Occur As jesus said we should do.

The preterist don't see any fulfillment in the 1948 Israel,,the Amills see it symbolic ect.

It might not be, who am I to say? That should not be the motivation for anything, there are FAR FAR more other things to look at (the world banking system which is quickly gaining steam, which will allow control of all finances, The ability to wipe out all life on earth (nuclear proliferation) And the birth pangs, which anyone who looks can obviosuly see coming to fruition. (The increase in massive earth catastrophes, earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, which people blame on global warming, which is fine, But the bible prophesied these things would occurs) The disease which increasingly is increasing so that we can not even fight them (all the diseases we thought we eradicated are returning, take this with anibiotic resistent bacteria (like mersa) Then you add the destruction of farmable land, or the selling of it. And using resources which should feed the people to feed their fleshly desires, and not their bodies, add to this population explosion, and you have even modern secular science say that in 50 years the earth will NOT be able to sustain all life, there will be massive hunger just as told by jesus, and this is just a few things,, Even if Israel was not in her land, there would still be enough evidence to see the things mentioned by Jesus in Matt 24 are occuring with exponential severity, so we could understand the signs of the season. Israel in her land is just one of MANY signs we can see.. It is not THE sign, and should never be used as an excuse to not take God at his word.

[/quote]And so in anwsering the OP as to the bad rap some in Christianity will support Israel because they see it one way while other Christians will see it another. So the bad rap if you think about it is that they see some of Christianity in support of them but not all.

Now as I often say I am outside the camps but you see by now that I see post trib, pre wrath, pe mill. but not as many do today but rather more closer to the 2nd and part of 3rd century Church did.[/QUOTE]

The op tried to explain why the jews hate christians, I do nto see what you just stated as havig anythign to do with the op.

And I am sorry you are post trib.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think God is the only one who is suppose set up nations and that mankind took it upon there own selves to do this but should have been patient and waited for God to do it and that's why he said they would say "let us make an image of the beast that was..." and took the one that received a deadly wound in ad70 and healed it in 1948.

Look at the OT.

God gave Isreal the land, But man had to take it.

God uses men to do his will.God will use man to spread his wrath in the last days. Who is to say god did not use man to give Israel its land back?

I think we assume to many things.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, much of the world is turning antisemitic, and I would add the amillennial sectors of the Church to your list, which at best are indifferent. In any case, sympathy for the plight of the Jews is waning in Christendom with no help from folks like Andy Stanley who pastors the 2nd largest Church in the U.S. and teaches that the OT poses too many problems and is a stumbling block for his Church Growth agenda, so he teaches only the resurrection and love of Jesus is needed...this is covert antisemitism.

Hey bro. Israel has been hated by the world since it was first created, It is all part of satans plan. He attacks it as much as he does the church, Because he KNOWS God has a special place in his heart for them.

I think it is funny when people think they need to intercede on behalf of Isreal. God said he will protect her. And he told here where she should go for that protection.

The church (new) is what will be openly attacked with great success in those days because satan, who can not touch the woman, Goes after her offspring. Thats us man.
I believe Israel is our ally, And will protect her like I would any ally, but not more.. God does not need me to do so. And if he does. We have no worry. Because we will succeed..

 

[crossnote]

I think it is funny when people think they need to intercede on behalf of Isreal. God said he will protect her. And he told here where she should go for that protection.

Maybe it's because God told us to...

Psalm 122:6 (KJV) Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

After all, God often uses means...us.

 

[iamsoandso]

Thats illogical reasoning as to use this to prove there is no form of rapture pre wrath. It is like saying to the jews. Your going to reject the messiah when he comes anyway, So why bother following God at all? Just be like the gentile. Because your future is doomed. Eat drink and be merry.

They could no more understand the hidden mystery of future events than we can in reality. So anyone who thinks they do not have to worry because their may be a rapture is foolish. Not to mention. What if you THINK your saved and your not. And this rapture happens and your left behind, But sent a delusion? What hope do you have then?

If is best to live our lives as God said in the first place. Do not worry about tomorrow. Live for today. That should be all peoples mindset.




Same as above, We do not live our lives based on how we think the end will occure. We shoudl live our lives as if the end will be any day, That means our focus is on today and the world. And preaching the gospel more, especially when we see the birth pangs Occur As jesus said we should do.



It might not be, who am I to say? That should not be the motivation for anything, there are FAR FAR more other things to look at (the world banking system which is quickly gaining steam, which will allow control of all finances, The ability to wipe out all life on earth (nuclear proliferation) And the birth pangs, which anyone who looks can obviosuly see coming to fruition. (The increase in massive earth catastrophes, earthquakes, volcanoes, hurricanes, which people blame on global warming, which is fine, But the bible prophesied these things would occurs) The disease which increasingly is increasing so that we can not even fight them (all the diseases we thought we eradicated are returning, take this with anibiotic resistent bacteria (like mersa) Then you add the destruction of farmable land, or the selling of it. And using resources which should feed the people to feed their fleshly desires, and not their bodies, add to this population explosion, and you have even modern secular science say that in 50 years the earth will NOT be able to sustain all life, there will be massive hunger just as told by jesus, and this is just a few things,, Even if Israel was not in her land, there would still be enough evidence to see the things mentioned by Jesus in Matt 24 are occuring with exponential severity, so we could understand the signs of the season. Israel in her land is just one of MANY signs we can see.. It is not THE sign, and should never be used as an excuse to not take God at his word.

And so in anwsering the OP as to the bad rap some in Christianity will support Israel because they see it one way while other Christians will see it another. So the bad rap if you think about it is that they see some of Christianity in support of them but not all.

Now as I often say I am outside the camps but you see by now that I see post trib, pre wrath, pe mill. but not as many do today but rather more closer to the 2nd and part of 3rd century Church did.[/QUOTE]

The op tried to explain why the jews hate christians, I do nto see what you just stated as havig anythign to do with the op.

And I am sorry you are post trib. [/QUOTE]



One thing is for sure I think when the Lord returns anyone who supported the beast will face his full wrath and suffer from their name not being in the book of life and so whoever we support we should examine very close.

 

[crossnote]

One thing is for sure I think when the Lord returns anyone who supported the beast will face his full wrath and suffer from their name not being in the book of life and so whoever we support we should examine very close.

That's for sure...

Genesis 12:3 (KJV) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Maybe it's because God told us to...

Psalm 122:6 (KJV) Pray for the peace of Jerusalem: they shall prosper that love thee.

After all, God often uses means...us.

This is true

But God also said because Isreal did not obey him, and kill all when they went into the land, there would not be peace in the land. There will not be peace in Israel until Jesus returns.

Those who think there will be peace in that land, are hoping beyond hope. Especially since Israel is still in the state of rebellion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And so in anwsering the OP as to the bad rap some in Christianity will support Israel because they see it one way while other Christians will see it another. So the bad rap if you think about it is that they see some of Christianity in support of them but not all.

I do not see how the two relate. The jews hate us because we follow a false messiah, And because for a few thousand years we have attacked them in the name of the christian God.

Plain and simple.
The op tried to explain why the jews hate christians, I do nto see what you just stated as havig anythign to

One thing is for sure I think when the Lord returns anyone who supported the beast will face his full wrath and suffer from their name not being in the book of life and so whoever we support we should examine very close.

We should pray for our enemy,

So if they ask for our help. We should do as God did for us, when we were his enemy and we asked for his help.

Should we not?

 

[crossnote]

This is true

But God also said because Isreal did not obey him, and kill all when they went into the land, there would not be peace in the land. There will not be peace in Israel until Jesus returns.

Those who think there will be peace in that land, are hoping beyond hope. Especially since Israel is still in the state of rebellion.

Some say when we pray for the peace of Jerusalem, in actuality we are praying for the return of Messiah

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some say when we pray for the peace of Jerusalem, in actuality we are praying for the return of Messiah

Thats one of the things they have against us.

There will be peace in jerusalem 3.5 years after the abomination of desolation (maybe and most likely a few months after) After they great war. Thats why I do not understand why christian groups think there will be peace in the middle east. They should know by scripture there will nto be peace until certain events take place.

Until then. We can pray for peace all we want. We will not see an answer to our prayer.

 

[iamsoandso]

That's for sure...
.
Genesis 12:3 (KJV) And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

The thing about it in reverse the MoL does blaspheme and opposes all that is called God and sits in the temple and shows that he is God ,with the working of satan,all power, signs and lying wonders ect. which seems to me as I've said he convinces many that they are on the right track and supporting all the right things.

 

[iamsoandso]

I do not see how the two relate. The jews hate us because we follow a false messiah, And because for a few thousand years we have attacked them in the name of the christian God.

Plain and simple.
The op tried to explain why the jews hate christians, I do nto see what you just stated as havig anythign to


We should pray for our enemy,
So if they ask for our help. We should do as God did for us, when we were his enemy and we asked for his help.

Should we not?

I'm not meaning this to sound as if I see myself as a prophet o'k,,,,I'm just another man in the world trying to understand a very difficult subject,lol but remember that the prophets were killed when they said bad things about Israel and that it says they only listened to the ones who spoke good things instead. Be perfectly sure that is the correct Israel before you put all your eggs in one place.

Haredi Judaism is one example of a flavor(they see being reffered to as sect,denomination ect. as offensive),there are about 2 million of them but they don't believe that the Israel there is the correct one either and that Zionism is against the Torah. There are several other flavors of Judaism who are all Orthodox Jews who don't either who were against an Israel being set up the way it was in 1948. To them we set up someone over them that is as if someone took Jim Jones and and set him up a nation and put him in charge and said all the Christians followed his faith. Wouldnt make it Christianity any more than what we did in Palestine makes it the Israel of God.

 

[jaybird88]

This does not prove a thing man

I am sorry, But I do not understand your line of reasoning or what bearing it has on the discussion.

The bible says it is God who makes and destroys nations. it is god who gives us rulers (which is also why it says we are to obey those rulers and render to them what is theirs0

God uses men to do his will.. Isreal today would not be isreal apart from Gods will period. Zionism did not bring it together. Zionism has no power.

Hosea 8:4
They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction.

these guys appointed kings not by the Most High.

 

[dcontroversal]

You seem to be hung up on the word Dispensational, how about the word Scriptural?...

Genesis 15:18-21 KJV
[18] In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: [19] The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, [20] And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, [21] And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Romans 11:28-29 KJV
[28] As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. [29] For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

Exactly......and this promise has yet to be fulfilled..............PROOF that the prophecies have YET to be fulfilled and were NOT fufilled by 70 A.D.......

 

[dcontroversal]

Why is God's land promise to the ancient people of Israel the only covenant God made with man that stipulates no conditions in the minds of today's dispensationalists ? Who are you and from where comes the audacity to state that either God fulfills this pledge according to your understanding or ... He must be a liar ? Divine privilege carries with it the responsibility of keeping covenant.

In all things Israel today, dispensationalists (and you as well) have the order of God's means backwards.

The truth is the truth PAL.....and GOD made a promise which has yet to be FULFILLED.....and the funny thing.....you actually get a positive check mark.....wow.....proof that the other one is not interested in truth of this particular matter.....

NOW....once again.....SHOW ME where ISRAEL conquered to the river Euphrates from the BIBLE...when YOU can do THAT....then you can argue your point....UNTIL then....ALL of you that hold to this 70 A.D. drivel are wrong!

 

[crossnote]

The thing about it in reverse the MoL does blaspheme and opposes all that is called God and sits in the temple and shows that he is God ,with the working of satan,all power, signs and lying wonders ect. which seems to me as I've said he convinces many that they are on the right track and supporting all the right things.

What does that have to do with Gen 12:3?

 

[crossnote]

Hosea 8:4
They made kings, but not through me. They set up princes, but I knew it not. With their silver and gold they made idols for their own destruction.

these guys appointed kings not by the Most High.

The South made Confederate currency, but....

 

[kaylagrl]

The truth is the truth PAL.....and GOD made a promise which has yet to be FULFILLED.....and the funny thing.....you actually get a positive check mark.....wow.....proof that the other one is not interested in truth of this particular matter.....

NOW....once again.....SHOW ME where ISRAEL conquered to the river Euphrates from the BIBLE...when YOU can do THAT....then you can argue your point....UNTIL then....ALL of you that hold to this 70 A.D. drivel are wrong!

Why is it I love it when you're laying it down on someone and hate it when you do it to me? You're 100% correct on this and I don't know how people can even hold that belief. Never heard of it till I came to CC. Mind boggling. smh

 

[dcontroversal]

Why is it I love it when you're laying it down on someone and hate it when you do it to me? You're 100% correct on this and I don't know how people can even hold that belief. Never heard of it till I came to CC. Mind boggling. smh

HAHAHHAH You should see me when I lay it on myself HAHAHAH I cut myself less slack than I do anyone on here

 

[crossnote]

HAHAHHAH You should see me when I lay it on myself HAHAHAH I cut myself less slack than I do anyone on here

What about when that Aussie matey lays it on ya? LOL