Not By Works
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The issue is Bud's interpretation of 1 John 3:9
Would you please read 1 John 3:9 and then read the words below slowly and carefully.
Bud says it is referring to the New Nature. That is not the correct interpretation of 1 John 3:9
1 John 3:9, the verb "sins" is in the present tense. It is, if I am not mistaken either a continual or ititerative sinning. Now compare that to Romans 6:1, shall we continue in sin? God forbid.
Also compare to what Jesus said in John 5 to the man He healed. He said "go and sin no more"
We know that Jesus was not telling him to be sinless, right? But He told him to sin no more
There is a sense where "sins not" and "sin no more" does not mean be absolutely sinless, but do not CONTINUE in the sinful path that you were on.
Would you please read 1 John 3:9 and then read the words below slowly and carefully.
Bud says it is referring to the New Nature. That is not the correct interpretation of 1 John 3:9
1 John 3:9, the verb "sins" is in the present tense. It is, if I am not mistaken either a continual or ititerative sinning. Now compare that to Romans 6:1, shall we continue in sin? God forbid.
Also compare to what Jesus said in John 5 to the man He healed. He said "go and sin no more"
We know that Jesus was not telling him to be sinless, right? But He told him to sin no more
There is a sense where "sins not" and "sin no more" does not mean be absolutely sinless, but do not CONTINUE in the sinful path that you were on.
I am OSAS but totally disagree with that we can sin all we want and still be saved.
I believe we will still sin, when we do it's a conscious decision to do so.
I also believe we can sin but do not want to.
Either way we will come before God and ask for forgiveness (relationship) and ask for help.
We should never ever write off a genuine beliver who struggles with sin.
Not saying you do.
But my friend it does happen. It happened to me. Been there and got many a T-shirt.
And I thank God because he is now using me to walk with people who struggle like I have.
To me if someone seeks you out for help then that is a good sign.
I believe we will still sin, when we do it's a conscious decision to do so.
I also believe we can sin but do not want to.
Either way we will come before God and ask for forgiveness (relationship) and ask for help.
We should never ever write off a genuine beliver who struggles with sin.
Not saying you do.
But my friend it does happen. It happened to me. Been there and got many a T-shirt.
And I thank God because he is now using me to walk with people who struggle like I have.
To me if someone seeks you out for help then that is a good sign.
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The above contradicts itself BILL............either one is 100% secure in Christ and regardless of sin will make the kingdom or they were never saved to begin with.....
There is a reason that GOD WHIPS his children, YANKS reward and inheritance and POSSIBLY even takes their life from them early <---and the ONLY REASON is sin or rebellion......!!
There is a reason that GOD WHIPS his children, YANKS reward and inheritance and POSSIBLY even takes their life from them early <---and the ONLY REASON is sin or rebellion......!!
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To be honest mate I have read it and don't get it.
I don't get Romans 7 where Paul talks about sin residing in the flesh and it's not him sinning.
I don't get the new nature.
I know in Romans that the nature in one Bible is translated as flesh (sarx) but in another its nature.
I think when Jesus said go sin no more then I agree with you.
Every genuine beliver will not want to sin.
And when they do they hold their hands up before God. Confess it.
As you have said, it's relational.
I don't get Romans 7 where Paul talks about sin residing in the flesh and it's not him sinning.
I don't get the new nature.
I know in Romans that the nature in one Bible is translated as flesh (sarx) but in another its nature.
I think when Jesus said go sin no more then I agree with you.
Every genuine beliver will not want to sin.
And when they do they hold their hands up before God. Confess it.
As you have said, it's relational.
Perserverance of the saints does not teach that you can lose your salvation. That is where your argument is fallacious.
After all these posts, YOU can't tell the difference between a descriptive and a prescriptive statement when you read.
That is why you cannot understand what I am saying. Not knowing the difference between a descriptive and a prescriptive statement creates misunderstandings, both in what others are saying and what the Bible says. And clearly you do not know the difference, because you and your friends keep confusing my DESCRIPTIVE Statements and interpreting them as if they prescriptive statements.
After all these posts, YOU can't tell the difference between a descriptive and a prescriptive statement when you read.
That is why you cannot understand what I am saying. Not knowing the difference between a descriptive and a prescriptive statement creates misunderstandings, both in what others are saying and what the Bible says. And clearly you do not know the difference, because you and your friends keep confusing my DESCRIPTIVE Statements and interpreting them as if they prescriptive statements.
What I'm conveying is that if someone thinks they can sin all they want and still be saved with no regards then I would question whether they were saved to begin with.
However a child of God will not want to walk like this.
And if they do God will deal with them.
Those who are not his kids will be left to their own devices.
However a child of God will not want to walk like this.
And if they do God will deal with them.
Those who are not his kids will be left to their own devices.
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I did not address you and my argument in not fallacious pal........God is the one that does the KEEPING.....it has NOTHING to do with what WE DO.......!!
It is ALL Christ and he GETS all the glory....your view gives man some glory over Christ....do not address me please....Your divisive blather has broken the straw on the camel's back and I have not use for your input until you can get honest!!!
It is ALL Christ and he GETS all the glory....your view gives man some glory over Christ....do not address me please....Your divisive blather has broken the straw on the camel's back and I have not use for your input until you can get honest!!!
Romans 8 deals with overcoming the power of the Old nature.
God gave us a new nature to walk in, not so that we can walk in the old nature
Let me make my position very clear. I am not teaching sinless perfection. I am not saying that the fact that we sin means we're not saved. What I AM saying is that, and I am going to make a RARE prescriptive statement here, WE ARE TO WALK AFTER THE NEW NATURE, NOT THE OLD NATURE.
Do we fall into the habits of the old nature in Romans 7? Sure. Are we supposed to camp out there and let it rule over us. NO.
If you live after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the deeds of the flesh, you shall live. Romans 8:13
Practicing sin means living, dwelling, walking, abiding in, persisting in, the old nature. We as believers must not do this.
We may for a season, I admit I have more than once. But DO WE REMAIN THERE?
John says NO for a true believer.
God gave us a new nature to walk in, not so that we can walk in the old nature
Let me make my position very clear. I am not teaching sinless perfection. I am not saying that the fact that we sin means we're not saved. What I AM saying is that, and I am going to make a RARE prescriptive statement here, WE ARE TO WALK AFTER THE NEW NATURE, NOT THE OLD NATURE.
Do we fall into the habits of the old nature in Romans 7? Sure. Are we supposed to camp out there and let it rule over us. NO.
If you live after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the deeds of the flesh, you shall live. Romans 8:13
Practicing sin means living, dwelling, walking, abiding in, persisting in, the old nature. We as believers must not do this.
We may for a season, I admit I have more than once. But DO WE REMAIN THERE?
John says NO for a true believer.
The ability to overcome sin is tied directly to the ongoing process of sanctification and transformation as described in Romans 12......and exactly why the bible has very faithful servants and some believers that are carnal and worldly <---Corinthian Assembly........
And with everything in between...............the greater the transformation the less one sins and the exact opposite is equally true..........just like children that get no discipline and or instruction..........
And with everything in between...............the greater the transformation the less one sins and the exact opposite is equally true..........just like children that get no discipline and or instruction..........
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The focus seems to be sin. Our focus in the New Covenant is Him (the Holy Spirit). Sin is no longer an issue between man and God, it was resolved on the cross. Our unrelenting focus on sin is what the other gospel is all about. If we are sitting around focusing on sin, we are not focused on the one that forgave sin. The main problem with the church today is it has become a behavioral modification program, where no one ever is right with God. That's a bunch of fooey. Sin is SOOOO evil, it took the death of God on the cross to resolve it. That was done 2000 years ago, and we had zero choice in that. We do however get to accept the free gift of the Spirit that can dwell within us as a result of that. Paul tells us to live in the Spirit, that is my focus. Sin is not. As I live in relationship with Him I probably sin less, but sin is not my concern, it WAS Gods, and I beleive Him when He said He won victory over it, for us. When I sin, I fully understand and am truly grateful that I am forgiven, and I thank him for his Grace and mercy 😎🙂
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Why don't you read below and find out what the doctrine teaches and then you won't get sick when you hear it.
These are statements of men who believe in the wholesome doctrine of "perserverance of the saints'
The infinite, mysterious, eternal love of God for his people is a guarantee that they can never be lost. Loraine Boettner (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
God hath given this charge to Christ, that whomsoever he elected, Christ should preserve them safe, to bring them to heaven. Christopher Love (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
Did Christ finish his work for us? Then … he will also finish his work in us. John Flavel (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
An inheritance is not only kept for us, but we are kept for it. Richard Sibbes (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
God, by the exercise of his grace . . . infallibly prevents even the weakest saint from final apostasy. Loraine Boettner (beiieved in the doctrine of perserverance. )
Yeah, these guys believe we keep ourselves. .
These are statements of men who believe in the wholesome doctrine of "perserverance of the saints'
The infinite, mysterious, eternal love of God for his people is a guarantee that they can never be lost. Loraine Boettner (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
God hath given this charge to Christ, that whomsoever he elected, Christ should preserve them safe, to bring them to heaven. Christopher Love (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
Did Christ finish his work for us? Then … he will also finish his work in us. John Flavel (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
An inheritance is not only kept for us, but we are kept for it. Richard Sibbes (believed in the doctrine of perserverance)
God, by the exercise of his grace . . . infallibly prevents even the weakest saint from final apostasy. Loraine Boettner (beiieved in the doctrine of perserverance. )
Yeah, these guys believe we keep ourselves. .