Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

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iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Yes, Zionism is a secular political movement.

Many Jews in the early 1940's disavowed the movement and some still do as being against the teachings of the Torah.

But as I said many don't understand that and the media has done a good job of using those terms as synonyms of the other and so it's embedded into the thinking of them. They do fight with all their might to defend what they do believe it to mean though so I respect their opinion's irregardless.
 
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UnderGrace

Guest
But as I said many don't understand that and the media has done a good job of using those terms as synonyms of the other and so it's embedded into the thinking of them. They do fight with all their might to defend what they do believe it to mean though so I respect their opinion's irregardless.
Hence the constant accusation of anti-semite, which actually makes no sense considering "semite" is a language group.

1847, "a Jew, Arab, Assyrian, or Aramaean" (an apparently isolated use from 1797 refers to the Semitic language group)

They fight because they have been conditioned to do so.
 
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So many people are ignorant of just how horrible Martin Luther was in regard to the Jews. Most don't want to even consider the VERY bad side of him because of the truly heroic effort to preach Salvation by Grace through Faith alone.

Here are his thoughts on the Jews, which echoed even to Adolph Hitler, as he partially used Luther as justification of Jewish persecution.

VERY small wonder Jews are skeptical of Christians:

The Jews, he alleges, look for biblical truth “under the sow’s tail,” that is, their interpretation of the Bible comes from looking in a pig’s anus. . . . They defame Christian belief, “impelled by the Devil, to fall into this like filthy sows fall into the trough.” If they see a Jew, Christians should “throw sow dung at him . . . and chase him away.” Luther calls for the secular authorities to burn down all the synagogues and schools, and “what won’t burn should be covered over with earth, so that not a stone or piece of slag of it should be seen for all eternity.” The Jews’ houses should be destroyed and they should be put under one roof, like the gypsies. The Talmud and prayer books should be destroyed and Jewish teachers banned. They should be prevented from using the roads, usury banned, and the Jews forced to undertake physical labor instead. Assets from moneylending should be confiscated and used to support Jews who converted. This was a program of complete cultural eradication. And Luther meant it. . . .

Luther’s anti-Semitism then reached a crescendo of physical revulsion. He imagined Jews kissing and praying to the Devil’s excrement: “the Devil has emptied . . . his stomach again and again, that is a true relic, which the Jews, and those who want to be a Jew, kiss, eat, drink, and worship.” In a kind of inverted baptismal exorcism, the Devil fills the mouth, nose, and ears of the Jews with filth: “He stuffs and squirts them so full, that it overflows and swims out of every place, pure Devil’s filth, yes, it tastes so good to their hearts, and they guzzle it like sows.” Whipping himself into a frenzy, Luther invokes Judas, the ultimate Jew: “When Judas hanged himself, so that his guts ripped, and as happens to those who are hanged, his bladder burst, then the Jews had their golden cans and silver bowls ready, to catch the Judas piss (as one calls it) with the other relics, and afterwards together they ate the shit and drank, from which they got such sharp sight that they are able to see such complex glosses in Scripture.”

This summary provides only a sampling of Luther’s hate-filled vitriol. Multiple passages in his 1543 writings against the Jews are just as abhorrent.
Mr Luther is dead asleep.

The same pattern or parable ...."All things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura).

It, as it is wriiten reformed the first century church and did its work in the fifteenth century reformation . Both times, restoring to a order of government to when there no men lording it over the un- venerable (worship-able) pew sitters. They must as a law of the fathers veneration the fathers, and kings and see no evil in doing so just as in Jerimiah 44. The reformation has come. Will there be another?

`The word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of Jehovah -- we are not hearkening unto thee; for we certainly do everything that hath gone out of our mouth, to make perfume to the queen of the heavens, and to pour out to her libations, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our heads, in cities of Judah, and in streets of Jerusalem, and -- we are satisfied with bread, and we are well, and evil we have not seen. Jerimiah 44:16-17
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Hence the constant accusation of anti-semite, which actually makes no sense considering "semite" is a language group.

1847, "a Jew, Arab, Assyrian, or Aramaean" (an apparently isolated use from 1797 refers to the Semitic language group)

They fight because they have been conditioned to do so.

lol, my avatar is Adolf Arthur Marx he willed his harp to Israel and was Jewish/Hebrew. It's the only avatar I've ever had on CC. They do say it backwards but like we agreed they don't realize they do...
 
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UnderGrace

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lol, my avatar is Adolf Arthur Marx he willed his harp to Israel and was Jewish/Hebrew. It's the only avatar I've ever had on CC. They do say it backwards but like we agreed they don't realize they do...
Interesting, I did not know this.:)
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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lol, Everyone's still confused by the meaning of the words. Zionism is a political movement,party not a religious body teaching a faith and so it is no more possible to speak of it antisemitic than if someone said something about the Republican party in the US.

On the other hand Orthodox Judaism(and the different flavors) are a religious body that does teach a faith(Judaism) and a race of people and if I spoke ill of them then it would be antisemitic but I'm defending them if you notice by clarafying the difference.
Yet they are seeking worldwide dominance? You must believe the antichrist is Jewish, is that it?
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
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Why do people always talk about anti-semitism when christians ought to be more concerned with people who are antichrist. So many christians have been persecuted and still are for their faith, more so, and that would include hebrew believers. Yes jews/israel are Gods chosen people but dont forget the gentile believers whove been grafted in too also bear the brunt of this hatred.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Yet they are seeking worldwide dominance? You must believe the antichrist is Jewish, is that it?

I don't see a Gentile(think Jewish) sitting in the temple of God and doing the things in Scripture without the Jews themselves considering it an abomination. So if you consider how the Jews themselves would see it the only one they would let in the temple and fulfill the things in the Christian(our) Scriptures that he does is an Jewish person. So if his name is discerned as the equivalent meaning of chi,xi, stigma then he it seems spells his name(or it contains) in Greek but would also be Jewish and not be seen as offensive to the Jewish beliefs and so would not be seen as an pagan,gentile ect.

This is one of the reasons why I think that this occurs after a gathering of those who were scattered to the different nations and think he migrates from a Greek speaking nation to Israel. If this occurs before the Jews realize that Jesus was/is the Messiah then they cannot fulfill the Scripture John 5:43. So they believe as they do now then and see him as their awaited Messiah,receives the one who comes in his own name, permits him into the temple and then realize they were wrong and then accept Jesus as Lord. I'm open minded though so if you know of a way that the Jews could be persuaded to break what they consider to be mandatory in the Jewish law and permit a gentile to enter the temple I'll listen,lol.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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Why do people always talk about anti-semitism when christians ought to be more concerned with people who are antichrist. So many christians have been persecuted and still are for their faith, more so, and that would include hebrew believers. Yes jews/israel are Gods chosen people but dont forget the gentile believers whove been grafted in too also bear the brunt of this hatred.

lol, This is a touchy subject,especially things I have said so I would expect some to become angry and admire those who would fight for the things they believe in. I am not offended in any way nor hold any bitterness towards anyone who differed with me on the subject.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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I don't see a Gentile(think Jewish) sitting in the temple of God and doing the things in Scripture without the Jews themselves considering it an abomination. So if you consider how the Jews themselves would see it the only one they would let in the temple and fulfill the things in the Christian(our) Scriptures that he does is an Jewish person. So if his name is discerned as the equivalent meaning of chi,xi, stigma then he it seems spells his name(or it contains) in Greek but would also be Jewish and not be seen as offensive to the Jewish beliefs and so would not be seen as an pagan,gentile ect.

This is one of the reasons why I think that this occurs after a gathering of those who were scattered to the different nations and think he migrates from a Greek speaking nation to Israel. If this occurs before the Jews realize that Jesus was/is the Messiah then they cannot fulfill the Scripture John 5:43. So they believe as they do now then and see him as their awaited Messiah,receives the one who comes in his own name, permits him into the temple and then realize they were wrong and then accept Jesus as Lord. I'm open minded though so if you know of a way that the Jews could be persuaded to break what they consider to be mandatory in the Jewish law and permit a gentile to enter the temple I'll listen,lol.
John 5:43 has no specificities to it and may be generally speaking.

Rather...

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(Dan 9:26-27)

Seems to me that 'the people of the prince to come that destroyed the city and the sanctuary were the Romans in 70AD, giving indication that the 'prince' himself, would be a Roman. No where do I see the Jews inviting him into the Temple but he first enters into a pact with Israel, then breaks it after 3 1/2 years and forcibly enters declaring himself to be god.

This may also come in handy...

And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
(Dan 11:36-39)

Just doesn't sound Jewish at all to me.
 

yellowcanary

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May 22, 2018
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You might want to check the listed allotment of land to be given unto Israel.....especially the part that mentions from the sea to the Euphrates........fairly confident that has not been fulfilled yet.......but hey...if you guys want to keep bloviating that it has all been fulfilled.....Check a MAP......Israel does not own or control the LAND all the way to the river Euphrates........!!!!!
I am very aware of todays Israel not lining up geographically with what God had promised the Israelites long ago. Matter of fact, this is precisely my point. Today's nation of Israel is not a fulfillment of biblical prophecy as is touted by dispensationalists everywhere. Conversations concerning Israel the nation today is fodder for the political arenas ... not biblical prophecy. That said, I have long believed that this matter will play a large role in the great deception to come.

The 21st chapter of Joshua makes very clear what God had fulfilled to Israel in regards to land according to His promise. Either you believe what God's Word in the Book of Joshua tells us ... or you don't. I'll go back two more verses if this helps. Your argument is not with me.

Joshua 21

43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. 44 The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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I am very aware of todays Israel not lining up geographically with what God had promised the Israelites long ago. Matter of fact, this is precisely my point. Today's nation of Israel is not a fulfillment of biblical prophecy as is touted by dispensationalists everywhere. Conversations concerning Israel the nation today is fodder for the political arenas ... not biblical prophecy. That said, I have long believed that this matter will play a large role in the great deception to come.

The 21st chapter of Joshua makes very clear what God had fulfilled to Israel in regards to land according to His promise. Either you believe what God's Word in the Book of Joshua tells us ... or you don't. I'll go back two more verses if this helps. Your argument is not with me.

Joshua 21

43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there. 44 The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
Sure it is.....the full possession of the land has never been fully realized....so...either God got it wrong or it is yet to be fulfilled......when did they conquer all the way to the Euphrates.....show me in scripture
 

yellowcanary

Junior Member
May 22, 2018
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Sure it is.....the full possession of the land has never been fully realized....so...either God got it wrong or it is yet to be fulfilled......
How then do you yourself reconcile Joshua 21:43-45 ? *** note the underlined portions.

Joshua 21

43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there.44 The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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How then do you yourself reconcile Joshua 21:43-45 ? *** note the underlined portions.

Joshua 21

43 So the Lord gave Israel all the land he had sworn to give their ancestors, and they took possession of it and settled there.44 The Lord gave them rest on every side, just as he had sworn to their ancestors. Not one of their enemies withstood them; the Lord gave all their enemies into their hands. 45 Not one of all the Lord’s good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
The burden of proof is on you....how do you jive the following promise with the fact that this has yet to be REALIZED........

In Joshua 1:4 God promised Joshua that the land of Israel would include territory extending “from the desert to Lebanon, and from the great river, the Euphrates—all the Hittite country—to the Mediterranean Sea in the west.” This territory would include the land from the southern tip of Israel along the Red Sea to the Euphrates River on the east, the border of Syria on the north (land of the Hittites), and the Mediterranean Sea (Great Sea) to the west. As of yet, Israel has not controlled this entire land area.

In the time of Joshua, much of the land of Canaan was brought under Israelite control. In the time of David and his son Solomon (approximately 1000 BC, or 400 years after Joshua), a wide area of land was under Israel’s control or influence. Yet the entire territory promised to Israel in Scripture, both in Joshua 1:4 and elsewhere, has yet to be fulfilled.

There is no contradiction......and it has YET to be fulfilled.....they were given right to the land as God said.....He kept his promise....YET THEY HAVE NOT TAKEN IT YET and it HAS NOT BEEN realized YET....SO.........there is yet a FUTURE fulfillment of JOSHUA 1:4

From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast. "No man will be able to stand before you all the days of your life. Just as I have been with Moses, I will be with you; I will not fail you or forsake you. "Be strong and courageous, for you shall give this people possession of the land which I swore to their fathers to give them. "Only be strong and very courageous; be careful to do according to all the law which Moses My servant commanded you; do not turn from it to the right or to the left, so that you may have success wherever you go.

I say again....SHOW ME from scripture where they CONQUERED the LAND all the way to the Euphrates................you will not find it, why?
BECAUSE it ha NOT BEEN realized YET.................
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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John 5:43 has no specificities to it and may be generally speaking.

Rather...

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
(Dan 9:26-27)

Seems to me that 'the people of the prince to come that destroyed the city and the sanctuary were the Romans in 70AD, giving indication that the 'prince' himself, would be a Roman. No where do I see the Jews inviting him into the Temple but he first enters into a pact with Israel, then breaks it after 3 1/2 years and forcibly enters declaring himself to be god.

This may also come in handy...

(Dan 11:36-39)

Just doesn't sound Jewish at all to me.

So your position on these thing's are preterism?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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So your position on these thing's are preterism?
No. It was the people (Romans) that destroyed the Temple in 70 AD therefore the Prince to come (Dan 9:26) will also be Roman (i.e. not Jewish).
In v.27 it says 'he shall confirm the Covenant for one week. I don't believe that happened in 70AD, and it couldn't be referring to Antiochus Epiphanes as Jesus spoke of that event as future...

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) (Mat 24:15)
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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No. It was the people (Romans) that destroyed the Temple in 70 AD therefore the Prince to come (Dan 9:26) will also be Roman (i.e. not Jewish).
In v.27 it says 'he shall confirm the Covenant for one week. I don't believe that happened in 70AD, and it couldn't be referring to Antiochus Epiphanes as Jesus spoke of that event as future...

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) (Mat 24:15)

Oh,in Acts 21:28-29 the Jews thought that Paul had brought gentiles into the temple and polluted the Holy place. We then I think should see that they were so set in not having gentiles in the temple that also if a Jew raised at the feet of Gamaliel brought an gentile into it he would also suffer death for polluting it. You say that he forces his self into the temple so does he force his self into the temple against the Jews will or do they recieve him in his own name as Jesus said?
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Oh,in Acts 21:28-29 the Jews thought that Paul had brought gentiles into the temple and polluted the Holy place. We then I think should see that they were so set in not having gentiles in the temple that also if a Jew raised at the feet of Gamaliel brought an gentile into it he would also suffer death for polluting it. You say that he forces his self into the temple so does he force his self into the temple against the Jews will or do they recieve him in his own name as Jesus said?
Is it your assumption, that Jesus is referring to the antichrist? I believe it is a statement of general fact. Notice, Jesus doesn't say 'when another shall come, but 'if'.
I think if He was referring to the future Man of Sin, Jesus would have said, 'when' another shall come....'. ...

John 5:43 KJV
[43] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
 

iamsoandso

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Oct 6, 2011
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Is it your assumption, that Jesus is referring to the antichrist? I believe it is a statement of general fact. Notice, Jesus doesn't say 'when another shall come, but 'if'.
I think if He was referring to the future Man of Sin, Jesus would have said, 'when' another shall come....'. ...

John 5:43 KJV
[43] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

John 5:43 https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/5-43.htm the way it was spoken in Greek is how it should be determined as spoken because if we suggest how he would have said this in English we would end up looking at it in the language he did say it in. Then we would remember that Jesus was Hebrew and the Jews he spoke to also and that he might have spoken to them in Hebrew and the Gospel was in Greek.

The Lord is speaking to Jews who did not receive him as the Messiah they were waiting for . And so it would seem to me that if Jesus is speaking of who they were or were not receiving saying they did not receive him as the Messiah then it could only mean that if they did not receive him as the Messiah they obviously would still be looking for one to afterwards come and receive him instead.