Why Christians get a bad rap amongst the Jews...(an example)

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crossnote

crossnote

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#281
iamsoandso said:
I do not support Zionism because they seek world wide domination.
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That is the first time I ever heard that claim, except from the enemies of Israel (Hamas, PLO, Iran etc). Do you have something to back that up from a reputable source?
I've always understood it as a movement seeking a homeland for the Jews. If they seek worldwide domination, why did they relinquish control of Gaza and give back the Sinai? Why is it their land mass is 600 less the size of the Arab States yet they are constantly pressured to give up more?
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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crossnote said:
That is the first time I ever heard that claim, except from the enemies of Israel (Hamas, PLO, Iran etc). Do you have something to back that up from a reputable source?
I've always understood it as a movement seeking a homeland for the Jews. If they seek worldwide domination, why did they relinquish control of Gaza and give back the Sinai? Why is it their land mass is 600 less the size of the Arab States yet they are constantly pressured to give up more?
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That is a good question actually but if you noticed in the thread I was scorned for sources and gave no more. I would suppose anyone would be able to Google the names I named,the issue between Roosevelt and Marshall are on the internet also and them being provided by the government reliable? The historical information of who and what Zionism is and it's roots state that they are a movement by those involved in it's history. I do love the Israel of God if it makes you curious but paying heed to Scripture will examine those who might pretend to be when not.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#283
iamsoandso said:
I do not support Zionism because they seek world wide domination.
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iamsoandso said:
That is a good question actually but if you noticed in the thread I was scorned for sources and gave no more.
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I hadn't followed all the thread, but even still, your source should be Scripture, no? God had given the Jewish race so much land with boundaries. I can't imagine a Christian, who hopefully is born again with God's nature, can even dream of an idea like you stated above.
Granted, one day a Jewish King will dominate the whole world, but of course that is another matter.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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crossnote said:
I hadn't followed all the thread, but even still, your source should be Scripture, no? God had given the Jewish race so much land with boundaries. I can't imagine a Christian, who hopefully is born again with God's nature, can even dream of an idea like you stated above.
Granted, one day a Jewish King will dominate the whole world, but of course that is another matter.
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In your eschatology do you have a beast who received a deadly wound and then the earth said let us make an image of and it was set back up and spoke as a man while those who refused to worship it were slain? One did you see in ad70 and was in the pit in Revelation 17:8,,,the earth did say let us make an image of it and did set it back up in 1948. Now so who soever aligns their support with it is on it's side and will pay the fiddler when our Lord returns.

We know the Scriptures say that it would be a strong delusion ,one so strong that even the elect might fall if it were possible. You know that that man will come and claim to be God and sit in a temple and many will see him that way. If that gathering of those scattered were instead made the state of Israel but their land was in Argentina would you see it as such? So If he says he is God and that temple is polluted then no one on earth would see it that way unless it was in the same land and with the same name.

What would it hurt to look in a place where you've never thought to look for a thing that none have been able to find? Do I harm someone If I say prove the ones who stand in front of you and say they are of God? The Lord's advice is to be ready and the apostle to prove every word, how is it wrong if I suggest to examine it? You look for it elsewhere but never find it. if I were of the devil would I not leave you alone looking elsewhere and not finding it,or suggest you look in a place you never thought to look? Even then you see you could rule it out as a possability and not be confused when it comes.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#285
iamsoandso said:
In your eschatology do you have a beast who received a deadly wound and then the earth said let us make an image of and it was set back up and spoke as a man while those who refused to worship it were slain? One did you see in ad70 and was in the pit in Revelation 17:8,,,the earth did say let us make an image of it and did set it back up in 1948. Now so who soever aligns their support with it is on it's side and will pay the fiddler when our Lord returns.

We know the Scriptures say that it would be a strong delusion ,one so strong that even the elect might fall if it were possible. You know that that man will come and claim to be God and sit in a temple and many will see him that way. If that gathering of those scattered were instead made the state of Israel but their land was in Argentina would you see it as such? So If he says he is God and that temple is polluted then no one on earth would see it that way unless it was in the same land and with the same name.

What would it hurt to look in a place where you've never thought to look for a thing that none have been able to find? Do I harm someone If I say prove the ones who stand in front of you and say they are of God? The Lord's advice is to be ready and the apostle to prove every word, how is it wrong if I suggest to examine it? You look for it elsewhere but never find it. if I were of the devil would I not leave you alone looking elsewhere and not finding it,or suggest you look in a place you never thought to look? Even then you see you could rule it out as a possability and not be confused when it comes.
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In my eschatology, I have read where God will scatter the Jews as a people group over the whole earth due to their rejection of Him, and there they would be mistreated from land to land.
In my eschatology, I read yet despite their persistent hardness of heart, God, in the latter days bring them back from the sword in unbelief to their Land.
In my eschatology, I read that God would send them through 3 1/2 years of Jacobs Trouble, ending with their near extinction except for the fact that they cry out to the Lord which triggers His return.
In my eschatology, I read all nations are assembled at Megiddo to come against Jerusalem.

What I don't read (and it's not in my eschatology-because it's not in the Bible), is that those who believe in a homeland for the Jews (Zionists) also seek worldwide domination.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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crossnote said:
In my eschatology, I have read where God will scatter the Jews as a people group over the whole earth due to their rejection of Him, and there they would be mistreated from land to land.
In my eschatology, I read yet despite their persistent hardness of heart, God, in the latter days bring them back from the sword in unbelief to their Land.
In my eschatology, I read that God would send them through 3 1/2 years of Jacobs Trouble, ending with their near extinction except for the fact that they cry out to the Lord which triggers His return.
In my eschatology, I read all nations are assembled at Megiddo to come against Jerusalem.

What I don't read (and it's not in my eschatology-because it's not in the Bible), is that those who believe in a homeland for the Jews (Zionists) also seek worldwide domination.
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Oh then the Small and great free and bond rich and poor or every nation will not fall victom to the mark of the beast,nor will every nation bow to the Lord in his Kingdom when he comes,,,,In mine there are both.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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iamsoandso said:
Oh then the Small and great free and bond rich and poor or every nation will not fall victom to the mark of the beast,nor will every nation bow to the Lord in his Kingdom when he comes,,,,In mine there are both.
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I never said that, that may be a fig newton of your imagination.
What you can't seem to back up is your wild accusation back in post #278.
"I do not support Zionism because they seek world wide domination."

That has to be one of the most antisemitic-conspiratorial remarks I have read on a Christian Forum. I had to double check and make sure this wasn't CaliphChat.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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#290
crossnote said:
I never said that, that may be a fig newton of your imagination.
What you can't seem to back up is your wild accusation back in post #278.
"I do not support Zionism because they seek world wide domination."

That has to be one of the most antisemitic-conspiratorial remarks I have read on a Christian Forum. I had to double check and make sure this wasn't CaliphChat.
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Yep how dare them think they might even declare economic war on a nation makes you think they thought they could right?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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iamsoandso said:
Ok thank you for speaking with me on this. It may be how I worded things in the questions I ask. You had commented at the beginning of the thread that the news paper headline seemed odd to say "Judea delares war on...ect." (cant remember your exact wording i apologize), but you were correct in there not being a "Judea" at that time and is why your comments interested me.

I am though baffled as to you saying "BOTH" are enemy's and also is why I ask If anyone knew the difference between Zionism and Orthodox Judaism(this was based on comments made by many posters). Why I say this is Zionism is an "Political Movement" that began in the mid 1700's by protestants but was referred to as "friends of Israel" but with the goal of creating a state and the original name was to be called "Judea". Then by the mid 1800's the term "Christian Zionist" began to be applied to the Christian supporters of the movement.

In the 1890"s Nathan Birnbaum and Theodor Herzi are who helped to bring about the term Zionism to the. The Zionist movement is a political movement no different than the "Tea party", liberal party",,"Democratic party" "Republican party" "Baath party",,"Nazi party" ,,,"Labor party" ect. in politics in every nation and is (not) a "religious Denomination" as many think. There are as many Christians who support the movement as Jews,Atheist ect.

The news media uses the term Zionism in many of the news stories to draw interest to their news stations in relation to the stories on antisemitism which has in the modern day led to the usage of Zionism and Jew as if interchangeable but to any Orthodox Jew an insult. Other terms are viewed in the same manner,, Denomination,sect ect. But I understand that many do not know this so expected most to use the same terms as the media.

In the days after the second world war Theodore Roosevelt and George C. Marshall were bitterly divided on the issue of the creation of an state/nation for the Jews and it's name .The name originally was to be Judea(hence the NP title) but then because of meetings with both Jews,Arabs,the UN,US ect. was decided as the "State of Israel"

I am a Christian, I always have been, It was not aware until one of my family members researched my families genealogy that I knew of the Hebrew side. The Orthodox Jews are a religious group who follow Judaism ,,,Zionist are a political movement whose members/supporters are Jewish,Christian,atheist ect.... I do not support Zionism because they seek world wide domination.
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World wide domination?

Where do you get this from?
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#293
yellowcanary said:
Joshua 21:45

Not one of all the LORD's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
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They are still ongoing

ETERNAL promises are that, ETERNAL

When he said he gave them that LAND as an eternal inheritance, he means it. If he renigs on that promise, then he is not God.

If God said that the nation will be punished for sin, by being scattered throughout the world. And having their land left desolate. Yet if they repent, he PROMISES to return them to that land, and AGAIN be their God. Then his must still fulfill that promise.
 
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eternally-gratefull

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#294
iamsoandso said:
Yep how dare them think they might even declare economic war on a nation makes you think they thought they could right?
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What do you mean? As a nation do they not have a right to do what every other nation does?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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yellowcanary said:
Joshua 21:45

Not one of all the LORD's good promises to Israel failed; every one was fulfilled.
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You might want to check the listed allotment of land to be given unto Israel.....especially the part that mentions from the sea to the Euphrates........fairly confident that has not been fulfilled yet.......but hey...if you guys want to keep bloviating that it has all been fulfilled.....Check a MAP......Israel does not own or control the LAND all the way to the river Euphrates........!!!!!


"From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory.
 
Melach

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dcontroversal said:
You might want to check the listed allotment of land to be given unto Israel.....especially the part that mentions from the sea to the Euphrates........fairly confident that has not been fulfilled yet.......but hey...if you guys want to keep bloviating that it has all been fulfilled.....Check a MAP......Israel does not own or control the LAND all the way to the river Euphrates........!!!!!


"From the wilderness and this Lebanon, even as far as the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and as far as the Great Sea toward the setting of the sun will be your territory.
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the argument he uses is bad. i used that argument too in past i feel sad now and bad for using it

this is why its terrible. it doesnt matter if they control the land that area or not. because even if they did promise still not fulfilled. promises include animals being peaceful, no wars, living in peace, messiah ruling from jerusalem, david present. and this big one: abraham and his sons need to be there. when did abraham himself ever see the land promise? or isaac? or jacob? never. thats why its future in the millennium its already closed case.

its just not possible to be fulfilled yet.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Melach said:
the argument he uses is bad. i used that argument too in past i feel sad now and bad for using it

this is why its terrible. it doesnt matter if they control the land that area or not. because even if they did promise still not fulfilled. promises include animals being peaceful, no wars, living in peace, messiah ruling from jerusalem, david present. and this big one: abraham and his sons need to be there. when did abraham himself ever see the land promise? or isaac? or jacob? never. thats why its future in the millennium its already closed case.

its just not possible to be fulfilled yet.
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Oh, I agree.......The battles that take place over false dogma and doctrines is incessant...sometimes I feel like Leonidas at Thermopylae...........with Persians streaming through the "Hot Gates"
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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lol, Everyone's still confused by the meaning of the words. Zionism is a political movement,party not a religious body teaching a faith and so it is no more possible to speak of it antisemitic than if someone said something about the Republican party in the US.

On the other hand Orthodox Judaism(and the different flavors) are a religious body that does teach a faith(Judaism) and a race of people and if I spoke ill of them then it would be antisemitic but I'm defending them if you notice by clarafying the difference.
 
U

UnderGrace

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#299
iamsoandso said:
lol, Everyone's still confused by the meaning of the words. Zionism is a political movement,party not a religious body teaching a faith and so it is no more possible to speak of it antisemitic than if someone said something about the Republican party in the US.

On the other hand Orthodox Judaism(and the different flavors) are a religious body that does teach a faith(Judaism) and a race of people and if I spoke ill of them then it would be antisemitic but I'm defending them if you notice by clarafying the difference.
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Yes, Zionism is a secular political movement.

Many Jews in the early 1940's disavowed the movement and some still do as being against the teachings of the Torah.
 
iamsoandso

iamsoandso

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eternally-gratefull said:
Thats funny, Since judea was not a nation.

Lolololol!!

It also shows Hitler in power. So his war against jews had already begun.
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"that's funny since (JUDEA) was not a (NATION)" yet that political movement had the power to crumble nations long before they did.
 
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