Not By Works
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Oh, DC agrees with Bud's "Christians are slaves to sin" argument? Is that why he put a thumbs up? I was waiting to see who would agree with that abomination of an argument.
Bud tried to prove that if you are not sinless, you are a slave to sin. That is in direct contradiction to 1 John 1:8 on one hand and Romans 6:17 on the other
Shows how pernicious and unbiblical a doctrine can be when it picks some scriptures and ignores others.
Bud tried to prove that if you are not sinless, you are a slave to sin. That is in direct contradiction to 1 John 1:8 on one hand and Romans 6:17 on the other
Shows how pernicious and unbiblical a doctrine can be when it picks some scriptures and ignores others.
This is the argument you gave a thumbs up to....
Post 481- Bud- Nice evasion. If you sin every day as a choice, how are you not a "willing slave" to it, Mac?
Post 501- Mac- You don't have to make any choice at all to sin. Sin includes any missing of the mark of God's perfect standard. We commit sins of omission as well as commision. There are sins of imperfect motive, imperfect intent, even our good works are imperfect.
Post 504-Bud- ALL sin is a choice, Mac. That won't fly in a human court, let alone God's court. "Missing the mark" is simply sinning. Sin, plain and simple. Violating God's Law. You're not going to fool the judge with that logic, Mac.
Do you sin every day, in thought, word, deed, motive, intent, or omission? Then according to Bud, you are a servant of sin.
...and according to the Bible, you are supposed to be free from sin, and you WERE a servant of sin, but now you are free if you are a Christian
Post 481- Bud- Nice evasion. If you sin every day as a choice, how are you not a "willing slave" to it, Mac?
Post 501- Mac- You don't have to make any choice at all to sin. Sin includes any missing of the mark of God's perfect standard. We commit sins of omission as well as commision. There are sins of imperfect motive, imperfect intent, even our good works are imperfect.
Post 504-Bud- ALL sin is a choice, Mac. That won't fly in a human court, let alone God's court. "Missing the mark" is simply sinning. Sin, plain and simple. Violating God's Law. You're not going to fool the judge with that logic, Mac.
Do you sin every day, in thought, word, deed, motive, intent, or omission? Then according to Bud, you are a servant of sin.
...and according to the Bible, you are supposed to be free from sin, and you WERE a servant of sin, but now you are free if you are a Christian
edit...
a. (Post 481 Bud)- Nice evasion. If you sin every day as a choice, how are you not a "willing slave" to it, Mac?
In other words, Bud said if you sin by choice every day you are a willing slave of sin.
(Post 501- Mac)- You don't have to make any choice at all to sin. Sin includes any missing of the mark of God's perfect standard. We commit sins of omission as well as commision. There are sins of imperfect motive, imperfect intent, even our good works are imperfect.
I said any imperfection, whether in thought, deed, motive, intent, or omission is sin.
(Post 504-Bud-) ALL sin is a choice, Mac. That won't fly in a human court, let alone God's court. "Missing the mark" is simply sinning. Sin, plain and simple. Violating God's Law. You're not going to fool the judge with that logic, Mac.
Bud said all sin is a choice, therefore if you sin in word, thought, deed, intent, or omission or any other thing every day, you are a slave to sin
How does this line up with your theology? Can one be a slave to sin and to righteousness.
If not, then no one who sins every day in any way, whether omission, thought, word, deed, motive, intent, or imperfection is free from sin. They would be slaves to sin, according to Budman.
a. (Post 481 Bud)- Nice evasion. If you sin every day as a choice, how are you not a "willing slave" to it, Mac?
In other words, Bud said if you sin by choice every day you are a willing slave of sin.
(Post 501- Mac)- You don't have to make any choice at all to sin. Sin includes any missing of the mark of God's perfect standard. We commit sins of omission as well as commision. There are sins of imperfect motive, imperfect intent, even our good works are imperfect.
I said any imperfection, whether in thought, deed, motive, intent, or omission is sin.
(Post 504-Bud-) ALL sin is a choice, Mac. That won't fly in a human court, let alone God's court. "Missing the mark" is simply sinning. Sin, plain and simple. Violating God's Law. You're not going to fool the judge with that logic, Mac.
Bud said all sin is a choice, therefore if you sin in word, thought, deed, intent, or omission or any other thing every day, you are a slave to sin
How does this line up with your theology? Can one be a slave to sin and to righteousness.
If not, then no one who sins every day in any way, whether omission, thought, word, deed, motive, intent, or imperfection is free from sin. They would be slaves to sin, according to Budman.
All very true for those who do not, later in life, turn around 180 degrees and reject the Saviour, thereby causing their name to be removed from the Lambs Book of Life.
Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
In Rev it even tells us our name can be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in before it can be REMOVED.
Romans 11:20-22 - But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.
Hebrews 6:4-6 - It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
Hebrews 10:26-31 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God
2 Peter 2:20-22 - If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.
2 Peter 3:17 - Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Revelation 22:19 - And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
In Rev it even tells us our name can be blotted out of the Lambs book of Life, which means it had to be written in before it can be REMOVED.
Me thinks you miss the point entirely. Ho hum. Hypocrites like to pretend they do not sin, that it is only others who sin. They push this delusion of their perfection onto others until they are forced against the wall and into a corner when they have to admit, OOPS, yes, they actually do still sin. Budman exposes such hypocrites, and turns their rhetoric against them. Has he per chance done this to you? You seem to have a personal vendetta against him.
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No, I was at lunch and had to go back to work. .Your posts were a trainwreck. Go back. I found time to answer your posts.
Bud did the best he could trying to prove that Christians are all slaves to sin.
Never mind Romans 6:17. Bud knows more than Paul
One true sign of someone who has not been cleansed, forgiven, made whole is this
cynicism. The goal is to condemn others and bring them down, to claim there is no
hope in forgiveness and working through ones struggles and aspirations, because there
is no benefit.
Jesus says I love you. And honouring this love is why we cleanse and purify ourselves,
why we work at love and being a light, why our whole focus is on reaching out and
sharing the wonderous gift we have been given. A wedding guest who honours the
groom.
[addressing "the Church which is His body"] "For I am jealous as to you [corporate 'you' (plural)] with the jealousy of God. For I [Paul] have betrothed you [corporate 'you' (plural)] to one husband, to present A PURE VIRGIN [SINGULAR] to Christ."
(this is not the "10 Virgins/bridesmaids [plural; nor the 5 (plural)]" nor the "guests [plural]"<---He is not coming to "MARRY" either of these... these pertain to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the EARTHLY MK age] not the "MARRIAGE" itself)
(this is not the "10 Virgins/bridesmaids [plural; nor the 5 (plural)]" nor the "guests [plural]"<---He is not coming to "MARRY" either of these... these pertain to "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [the EARTHLY MK age] not the "MARRIAGE" itself)
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- seven rofl, for complete lunacy in a post.When did I ever say I am perfect or I never sin?
Post number please.
I was very careful to say the opposite.
What Budman and you and DC fail to realize, because you have a warped and incomplete understanding of scripture, is that the definition of slave is "one who is owned by another and is bound and obligated to do the other's will. A christian is not owned by sin, is no obligated to sin, is not bound by sin.
A Christian is owned by Jesus, therefore a Christian is NEVER a slave to sin, even though he or she is not sinless.
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Yep, and a Christian is never a slave to sin. A slave is someone who belongs to another. Christians are bought with a price, therefore they can never be a slave to sin, though they are not sinless. BIBLE 101
I guess you can act like a slave to sin, but then if you are a Christian, that just means that you forgot who owns you.
People with bad doctrine teach that failure to be sinless and slave to sin are synonomous. And that is basically what Bud's argument ammounted to.
I guess you can act like a slave to sin, but then if you are a Christian, that just means that you forgot who owns you.
People with bad doctrine teach that failure to be sinless and slave to sin are synonomous. And that is basically what Bud's argument ammounted to.
There is a serious problem here. People talk about sin, like it is inevitable.
So I walk down the street and inevitably murder someone. No.
I steal for them. No. I covert their car. No. I commit adultery. No. I bare false testimony. No.
I dishonour my parents. No.
So where is the sin.
God asks us to be specific, to talk about what sin is and how it comes about.
Once people never start this, or stop, they stay caught in their cycle of behaviour, guilt, and
failure to identify needs and resolve issues. This is how darkness overcomes us, and we slip
deep into self destruction and death. The point of walking in the light, is to resolve these
issues, to see them in the proper light of God and His love and truth and come to real resolutions
and ways that honour Him and others around us.
It is almost like I am saying this for the first time to people who claim to know Jesus and desire
change and to walk like Him. No wonder people are defeated and trapped in the cycle of failure,
lack of recognition, and lack of resolution. God bless you.
So I walk down the street and inevitably murder someone. No.
I steal for them. No. I covert their car. No. I commit adultery. No. I bare false testimony. No.
I dishonour my parents. No.
So where is the sin.
God asks us to be specific, to talk about what sin is and how it comes about.
Once people never start this, or stop, they stay caught in their cycle of behaviour, guilt, and
failure to identify needs and resolve issues. This is how darkness overcomes us, and we slip
deep into self destruction and death. The point of walking in the light, is to resolve these
issues, to see them in the proper light of God and His love and truth and come to real resolutions
and ways that honour Him and others around us.
It is almost like I am saying this for the first time to people who claim to know Jesus and desire
change and to walk like Him. No wonder people are defeated and trapped in the cycle of failure,
lack of recognition, and lack of resolution. God bless you.
No, I think YOU did.
Back to personal attacks I see.
Well that wouldn't be me. I never claimed to not sin.
Budman did not have to push me against the wall to make me admit I do still sin. I admitted that numerous times, freely and without reservation. You haven't been reading.
No, because NOTHING you said applies to me.
[QUOTE You seem to have a personal vendetta against him. ][/QUOTE]
He initiated the conversation yesterday
Back to personal attacks I see.
Well that wouldn't be me. I never claimed to not sin.
Budman did not have to push me against the wall to make me admit I do still sin. I admitted that numerous times, freely and without reservation. You haven't been reading.
No, because NOTHING you said applies to me.
[QUOTE You seem to have a personal vendetta against him. ][/QUOTE]
He initiated the conversation yesterday
Sadly the unbelievers sit watching the event saying, yes, go for the hypocrites, show them how
they fail and how useless they are in Christ. What has Christ ever changed in them or made them
capable of living a different life than anyone else in the world? Hypocrites. Who do they think
they are, believing Christ makes them new creations, believing His words and following His ways,
how dare they talk about good deeds and that we should show anything about the creator living
in our hearts or dwelling with the Most High........ And how dare they talk about sins we are commiting,
so judgemental and condemning, and why do they desire to read the law, it is just death and
failure, much better to read the promises and how peaceful and nice everything will be, ahhhhhhhh
they fail and how useless they are in Christ. What has Christ ever changed in them or made them
capable of living a different life than anyone else in the world? Hypocrites. Who do they think
they are, believing Christ makes them new creations, believing His words and following His ways,
how dare they talk about good deeds and that we should show anything about the creator living
in our hearts or dwelling with the Most High........ And how dare they talk about sins we are commiting,
so judgemental and condemning, and why do they desire to read the law, it is just death and
failure, much better to read the promises and how peaceful and nice everything will be, ahhhhhhhh
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what sprit? a sprit of truth and honesty?
you see, you think a believer has to instantly manifest fruit, followingpeterjensteps thinks we can be sinless while still in the flesh. there are outright lies.
of course, you 2 do not directly say these things, so when others call you out you can pull out plausible denial , and deflect.
I and many others see what you are doing. so, you have free will, do what ever, but both of you need to check your massive egos at the door, trash these wrong beliefs, and accept truth.
so, that's all I have to say, go ahead and attack this, feed your ego, satisfy your pride. I will continue to seek truth above man-made religious teachings .
you see, you think a believer has to instantly manifest fruit, followingpeterjensteps thinks we can be sinless while still in the flesh. there are outright lies.
of course, you 2 do not directly say these things, so when others call you out you can pull out plausible denial , and deflect.
I and many others see what you are doing. so, you have free will, do what ever, but both of you need to check your massive egos at the door, trash these wrong beliefs, and accept truth.
so, that's all I have to say, go ahead and attack this, feed your ego, satisfy your pride. I will continue to seek truth above man-made religious teachings .
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He has watered it down so much that its not even "faith alone" anymore. Its "faith once then later you can become an unbeliever and still be saved". Unbelievable, once you get on that slippery slope thats where you end up.
I find it hard to believe he actually said you dont even need to stay in the faith to be saved, wow. So unbiblical. Every book of the Bible refutes that falsehood.
I am glad you found out his embarrasing games that he likes to play of "do you sin, well that means you live as you please and are a slave to sin" completely throwing away the verses you mentioned. But you have to realize bro, its all about intellectual gymnastics with these people. I suggest you ignore him, there is absolutely nothing that can come out of a discussion, he already admitted he is just doing it to pull your leg. Just trolling.
I find it hard to believe he actually said you dont even need to stay in the faith to be saved, wow. So unbiblical. Every book of the Bible refutes that falsehood.
I am glad you found out his embarrasing games that he likes to play of "do you sin, well that means you live as you please and are a slave to sin" completely throwing away the verses you mentioned. But you have to realize bro, its all about intellectual gymnastics with these people. I suggest you ignore him, there is absolutely nothing that can come out of a discussion, he already admitted he is just doing it to pull your leg. Just trolling.
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