Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,661
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#98,661
gb9 said:
I am telling you what you are. I can prove it to you by the comparing the definition of the words " inspector " and " legalist " to your posts.

disagreeing with a man-made teaching does not make one wicked.
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love is a fruit, GB

and biblical love is not in word and tongue only, but also in deed and truth.

Everyone who is born of God loves

Biblical love is not only in word and tongue, but also in deed in truth

Therefore, everyone who is born of God loves in deed and in truth. IS this not being fruitful?

See Matthew 25: 31-46

So what was that man-made doctrine again?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,662
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
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#98,662
dcontroversal said:
Sure it does based upon your question....

Macabeus said:


Otherwise, you have justification based on how much you love, which I don't think is Jesus' intent.

Why? Do you?

dcontroversal said:
Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.

If one is saved by faith, justified by faith and LOVE is OF/FROM GOD .....it stands to reason that until one has BEEN justified by FAITH, SAVED BY FAITH that NO ONE can LOVE (biblically) unless BORN from above.....

1st Corinthians 13 is clear....FAITH then HOPE and then LOVE.............

LOVE MUST be PERFECTED IN US.............
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The question about "justification based on our love" was rhetorical, and the intended answer was NO.

You asked for a scripture that shows that justification produces love. I gave you the passage in luke 7, where Jesus said "whoever is forgiven much, loves much."

There are two ways you can take that statement. One is correct, the other is incorrect.

1. We are forgiven much because we love much. (incorrect)

2. We love much because we are forgiven much (correct)

if you would read carefully enough to comprehend, you would have known that that was one of my scriptures supporting the premise that "justification produces love"
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,663
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,663
dcontroversal said:
Sure it does based upon your question....

Macabeus said:


Otherwise, you have justification based on how much you love, which I don't think is Jesus' intent.

Why? Do you?

dcontroversal said:
Therefore we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds/works of the law.

If one is saved by faith, justified by faith and LOVE is OF/FROM GOD .....it stands to reason that until one has BEEN justified by FAITH, SAVED BY FAITH that NO ONE can LOVE (biblically) unless BORN from above.....

1st Corinthians 13 is clear....FAITH then HOPE and then LOVE.............

LOVE MUST be PERFECTED IN US.............
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Please read post 98.662 VERY CAREFULLY
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,664
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#98,664
dcontroversal said:
God whips us because he LOVES US ;) HAH ........and we all rebuke our children out of love.........
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But according to you, I am not a child of God nor your brother. You repeatedly called me a deceiver and a liar. and Deceivers, liars, etc are not children of God.

Revelation 21:8- But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 22:15- Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,665
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
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#98,665
gb9 said:
what commands are John referring to?

chapter 3, same letter- the commands - " believe in the name of Son, and love one another,".

and, John means any who claim to be a Christ follower, yet live a lifestyle of sin, has not been born of God.

so, there is that. this is not fruit inspecting.

this is a man who walked with Jesus telling believers things.
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1 John 3:18- My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

What kind of deeds demonstrate love of God and brethren, and what kind of deeds demonstrate failure to love?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#98,666
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
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#98,666
Macabeus said:
love is a fruit, GB

and biblical love is not in word and tongue only, but also in deed and truth.

Everyone who is born of God loves

Biblical love is not only in word and tongue, but also in deed in truth

Therefore, everyone who is born of God loves in deed and in truth. IS this not being fruitful?

See Matthew 25: 31-46

So what was that man-made doctrine again?
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I never said love was not a fruit, I never said we are not to bear fruit , I never said we are not to obey, that sin is not a big deal. never said any of these things.

what I do say is this- these things are a RESULT of salvation, not a cause, not a maintainer of salvation.

followingpeterjensteps teaches that when one comes to Christ, then the sins of that person are forgiven, then when that person walks just as Jesus walks, then they are saved, as long as they continue the walk just like Him.

this is a wicked lie about salvation. and followingpeterjensteps is now calling some of us wicked.

as you are fond of saying, go read his posts. you will see just what I am talking about.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,667
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,667
gb9 said:
what commands are John referring to?

chapter 3, same letter- the commands - " believe in the name of Son, and love one another,".

and, John means any who claim to be a Christ follower, yet live a lifestyle of sin, has not been born of God.

so, there is that. this is not fruit inspecting.

this is a man who walked with Jesus telling believers things.
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Romans 13: 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,668
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,668
gb9 said:
I never said love was not a fruit, I never said we are not to bear fruit , I never said we are not to obey, that sin is not a big deal. never said any of these things.

what I do say is this- these things are a RESULT of salvation, not a cause, not a maintainer of salvation.
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I have been saying the same thing, and have been called a legalist, a judge, and a fruit inspecter.

followingpeterjensteps teaches that when one comes to Christ, then the sins of that person are forgiven, then when that person walks just as Jesus walks, then they are saved, as long as they continue the walk just like Him.

this is a wicked lie about salvation. and followingpeterjensteps is now calling some of us wicked.

as you are fond of saying, go read his posts. you will see just what I am talking about.
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You were replying to me, not following. And you called me a legalist and a fruit inspector. Yet what I said was biblical, wasn't it?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#98,669
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
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#98,669
Macabeus said:
Romans 13: 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
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John did not write Romans. do not wrongly connect Scripture.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,670
Dec 27, 2018
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#98,670
gb9 said:
John did not write Romans. do not wrongly connect Scripture.
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SO because John didn't write Romans, are we to discard and exclude it from the discussion? :ROFL:

Where did I say that John wrote Romans?
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#98,671
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
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#98,671
Macabeus said:
I have been saying the same thing, and have been called a legalist, a judge, and a fruit inspecter.



You were replying to me, not following. And you called me a legalist and a fruit inspector. Yet what I said was biblical, wasn't it?
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what you say is o.k. until you get to how long it takes to bear fruit. there is no time limit .

when you obsess over this, this makes you a fruit inspector,].
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,672
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,672
gb9 said:
what you say is o.k. until you get to how long it takes to bear fruit. there is no time limit .

when you obsess over this, this makes you a fruit inspector,].
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Bur I never gave a specific time for bearing fruit.

Also,

a. if love is a fruit, and loving produces fruit

b. and everyone who is born of God loves,

c. what does that tell you?

Come on, put the pieces together...
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,673
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,673
gb9 said:
what you say is o.k. until you get to how long it takes to bear fruit. there is no time limit .

when you obsess over this, this makes you a fruit inspector,].
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Are you still OBSESSING about how much time it takes to bear fruit? :p

When did I put a time limit on bearing fruit? :confused:
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#98,674
Jan 18, 2011
12,284
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#98,674
Macabeus said:
No one said "fruit bears instantly". That is a strawman. I never said that. I merely said it does not take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit. Because one can bear fruit in many ways that do not require any level of maturity.

A person that just got saved two minutes ago can tell his friend about what Jesus did for Him, and if the Holy Spirit chooses, he can use that to draw a sinner to Christ.

A person who gets saved today can put an offering into the missionary offerering tommorow, and God can use that gift to save souls, and that is fruit on his or her account.

A person that gets saved five minutes from now can praise and glorify God, which is the fruit of their mouth.

The Samaritan woman didn't need a period of growth and maturity to bring a whole village to Jesus.

Andrew did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Peter to Jesus.

Phillip did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Nathaniel to Jesus

etcetera
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here you go. right here, first paragraph, you obsessing over how long it takes for one to bear fruit.

if the shoe fits....
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#98,675
#98,675
E1EC897E-24A0-47B2-BA0D-6FAE8A9C6B23.jpeg
Just got an email from someone saying he will probably be banned because of he has had it with certain people. WHY DO PEOPLE RESPOND TO THESE PEOPLE??

I think I am done with this room. I just can not with a clear conscience continue to watch this nonsense..
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#98,676
Mar 9, 2014
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#98,676
eternally-gratefull said:
WHY DO PEOPLE RESPOND TO THESE PEOPLE??
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In a sense, we have to. Not only for the strengthening of our own convictions, but to help others who come after us. It's pointless to "preach to the choir" only. It would be nothing but an echo chamber.

And you never know what seeds are being planted. A person with heretical beliefs may actually be reached. Maybe not today, but in the future, remembering some debates here. The Holy Spirit has lots of ways to touch one's soul.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#98,677
#98,677
Budman said:
In a sense, we have to. Not only for the strengthening of our own convictions, but to help others who come after us. It's pointless to "preach to the choir" only. It would be nothing but an echo chamber.

And you never know what seeds are being planted. A person with heretical beliefs may actually be reached. Maybe not today, but in the future, remembering some debates here. The Holy Spirit has lots of ways to touch one's soul.
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I will say again, If some one is actually coming in here to know about God. And sees the way these people are talking, they are not going to listen to them

It is one thing for someone to come in and preach a false gospel. Yes, we should discuss and show how they are wrong

But these people. They make themselves look bad. They do not need us to give them an audience, I believe we FUEL them by responding to them.
 
Melach

Melach

Well-known member
#98,678
Mar 28, 2019
2,055
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#98,678
Budman said:
In a sense, we have to. Not only for the strengthening of our own convictions, but to help others who come after us. It's pointless to "preach to the choir" only. It would be nothing but an echo chamber.

And you never know what seeds are being planted. A person with heretical beliefs may actually be reached. Maybe not today, but in the future, remembering some debates here. The Holy Spirit has lots of ways to touch one's soul.
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seed was planted in me when i came here. thank you God

i switched
 
Budman

Budman

Senior Member
#98,679
Mar 9, 2014
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#98,679
eternally-gratefull said:
I will say again, If some one is actually coming in here to know about God. And sees the way these people are talking, they are not going to listen to them

It is one thing for someone to come in and preach a false gospel. Yes, we should discuss and show how they are wrong

But these people. They make themselves look bad. They do not need us to give them an audience, I believe we FUEL them by responding to them.
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The ones who show themselves to be that way, like "argueless" who doesn't really respond, but only cut and pastes the same things over and over, should be on ignore. Others who just love(d) to cause dissension, like Fran, also should be ignored. Peter is on the edge, simply for his deception after returning from being banned with a new identity.

Remember, we are commanded to contend for the faith. Usually that involves lots of struggle.
 
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