Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

so, thanks for sharing your love by calling me wicked. same thing as saying " this place is full of old, bitter retired people "

yep, sprit of love on display.

I take no pleasure in standing up to your and your silly church and it's silly, lying, man-made creed;

I want you and all people to give all glory to God, accept that grace is free, and accept that salvation is all Christ, not you.

that is what I want, for people to swallow their pride, and admit we are sinners in need of a savior.
so, call me a wicked, I do not care.

I tell you the truth about sin and salvation. you reject in, and go with a silly , man-made church creed. bad choice, but we all have free will.

My friend, I have not called you wicked. This is simply not true. Psalm 36 describes a wicked man.
You connected my quote with yourself, why is that?

And you are not standing up to anything, just saying what you are saying adds nothing.
And as the people of God we give glory to Him, accept His grace through Christ and follow and walk
in His footsteps.

And we have no problem saying our life comes from and through Jesus constantly.
We were sinners, but are now saints, walking in His ways.

So it strikes me whatever your intent, it is going astray, God bless you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

why does God say fearful have their place in lake of fire? who can help fear? is fear a sin?

why is it even listed, i dont know of no honest man or woman who says they have never feared. by that list nobody makes it, but then our sins are gone in Jesus. but when they are gone in Jesus, why does that list even exist? does anyone have an answer? is it to scare the non-believers who may be reading the book of revelation?

I think you are thinking of this verse,

8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral,
those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars--their place will be in the
fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
Rev 21

The Lord is calling those who compromise, who are threatened with pain and death, who
just fold and do anothers bidding, are the enemies of God. In other words excuses for
sin do not add up. Evil men dominate by threats and intimidation, but the people of
God do not fear death, and walk in love, whether they are alive or go to be with the
Lord.

The price for love and truth is our lives, and we are called to follow this path. Amen

 

[FollowHisSteps]

What is the difference?

If I quote scripture applied to wicked men and their ways, without linking anyone to it,
as I think it is informative to their attributes and outworking, to then say I am addressing
one individual is their own personal conviction not mine. I do not know the heart of anyone,
or am capable of convicting them. That is the word of God and the Holy Spirit that does this.

Now if I do link an interaction to scripture and it fits the scripture, it is still scripture speaking
into the moment.

If I quote something generally, it is the reader who links it, and cannot accuse me of doing so.

But this is the difference between truth and slander. Unfortunately those with an intention to
do harm look for something coming the other way, because it is what they expect. Sadly if this
is scripture that convicts them, it is not mans work but Gods, Praise the Lord, Amen.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was going (try) to make a funny remark about is this dead horse still kicking, and put $20 on pre, mid, or post, D would have the last word in this thread as he's being raptured; but this was really funnier than anything I could have come up with.

Luv ya D

HAHAH thanks MIGO.....you know....I do not mind heated discussions, I do not mind that some of us disagree.....but there are some things that really PEEVE me off.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Hey everyone...We are saved...Anyone debating that fact , well you not come to Christ...

What a wonderful powerful , almighty God we serve...

I will lay my body down , flat out like a star fish , spread every inch of my body , and for the LORD Jesus Christ died for me , sometimes , I am soooooooooo sad , because He died an awful death for us...

His beard was torn from His face , He was spat on , He was mocked , let us not forget , the clubbing on His head , the spitting on His face , the scourging with bones on the ends of the whip the beat Him , may we ALL come together in our LORD Jesus Christ , who saved all us wretches like us...xox...

AMEN ROSE...........keep preaching it sis

 

[RickyZ]

HAHAH thanks MIGO.....you know....I do not mind heated discussions, I do not mind that some of us disagree.....but there are some things that really PEEVE me off.........

I thought it was funny how one post was all about love and the next ... Listen up pal...!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Listen PAL.....you are about to go bye bye if you keep lying and misrepresenting what I am saying........

Is it possible that they are right and you are wrong?
It is easy to say, "your lying" and then to not mention what about, and therefore actually miss it totally.
I have been told I believe this and that, when I do not.

I suggest that taking a position where we sin but it is not resolved in our hearts through repentance
and confession, is not regarding sin properly, staying defeated and under judgement, I am told I am
lying and miss representing others.

But biblically wicked people did not confess their sins and repent and therefore were judged.
It would have happened to Nineveh if they had not repented. In revelations the people are judged
but refuse to repent so the judgement continues. Sodom and Gomorrah were blasted away because
they did not repent. This is one of the most fundamental principles of faith in Jesus.

So to say sinning does not need repentance and confession, whether a believer or non-believer
is simply not biblical. We are called to not do evil but good, to leave wickedness.

So I am confused in this world of miss-representing God, Jesus and scripture. Old testament, gospels,
acts, letters, revelations say the same thing.

19 Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness
2 Timothy 2

14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself
a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.
Titus 2

11 He must turn from evil and do good; he must seek peace and pursue it.
12 For the eyes of the Lord are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their
prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."
13 Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good
1 Peter 3

 

[dcontroversal]

I thought it was funny how one post was all about love and the next ... Listen up pal...!

God whips us because he LOVES US HAH ........and we all rebuke our children out of love.........

 

[dcontroversal]

you do not think grace is free, and you do not accept the Biblical definition of sin. your lecturing is useless.

The very essence of grace indicates that it is freely given as a position one is placed into by faith........like a literal translation of Ephesians....

In the GRACE YOU ARE, having been saved out of faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and NOT of works lest any man should boast....

Or Romans 5

In the GRACE wherein ye NOW STAND.....

Grace is also dynamic in application to a believer....

Where sin abounds, GRACE abounds the MORE...........

It also has other unique applications...such as....

The GRACE of GOD that brings salvation has shined down upon ALL MANKIND........

 

[PS]

The very essence of grace indicates that it is freely given as a position one is placed into by faith........like a literal translation of Ephesians....

In the GRACE YOU ARE, having been saved out of faith, and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the GIFT of GOD and NOT of works lest any man should boast....

Or Romans 5

In the GRACE wherein ye NOW STAND.....

Grace is also dynamic in application to a believer....

Where sin abounds, GRACE abounds the MORE...........

It also has other unique applications...such as....

The GRACE of GOD that brings salvation has shined down upon ALL MANKIND........

I wonder if the grace of God springs from his love for us?

Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
(1Jn 4:7-10 KJV)

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I take no pleasure in standing up to your and your silly church and it's silly, lying, man-made creed;
I want you and all people to give all glory to God, accept that grace is free, and accept that salvation is all Christ, not you.

I am interested in looking at the above idea.
The Nazarene church is part of the Holiness movement. This emphasises the exploration and belief
Jesus through the cross called us to walk like Him. It is summarised by Pauls statement

1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Cor 1

But the exploration is discovering what is Christ's example and then how do we apply it.
This involves a choice of the will, heart, mind and action. All these things are shared about by the
apostles, and we are to have patience, endurance and faith in this pursuit and walk.

At its core is Jesus, the vine, and our dwelling in Him. The fulfilment of the cross is our walk, so this
fruit should neither be denied or boasted about as if it is our own but rather Christ working in us.

10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2

14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which
the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6

3 Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with
sober judgement, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
Rom 12

 

[PS]

I am interested in looking at the above idea.
The Nazarene church is part of the Holiness movement. This emphasises the exploration and belief
Jesus through the cross called us to walk like Him. It is summarised by Pauls statement

1 Follow my example, as I follow the example of Christ.
1 Cor 1

But the exploration is discovering what is Christ's example and then how do we apply it.
This involves a choice of the will, heart, mind and action. All these things are shared about by the
apostles, and we are to have patience, endurance and faith in this pursuit and walk.

At its core is Jesus, the vine, and our dwelling in Him. The fulfilment of the cross is our walk, so this
fruit should neither be denied or boasted about as if it is our own but rather Christ working in us.

10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works,
which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Eph 2

14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which
the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
Gal 6

3 Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with
sober judgement, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.
Rom 12

Follow Jesus, never mind getting it second hand via someone else, however great a teacher they might be. Jesus is the greatest teacher ever.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Follow Jesus, never mind getting it second hand via someone else, however great a teacher they might be. Jesus is the greatest teacher ever.

I agree. The reason I quote Paul, is because this demonstrates our objective as believers to follow Jesus's
example. Paul is saying in effect, I am following Christ, so you see my example, which is Christs example,
do likewise.

This shows the problem with the phrase follow Jesus, without the lived out example before us, it is hard
to visualise. Interestingly we do not know if these early churches had the gospels or which ones, so it
was harder to point to specific written examples. Paul saw this problem, and in writing his letters, expected
them to be taken as guidelines for the believers to follow.

 

[Macabeus]

I am telling you what you are. I can prove it to you by the comparing the definition of the words " inspector " and " legalist " to your posts.

disagreeing with a man-made teaching does not make one wicked.

According to you, the following analogy perfectly defines the word "inspect"

Jimmy needed a fruit inspector to inspect his apples. So he called Budman

Jimmy- I need someone to inspect my apples.

Budman- Ok, I charge 10 dollars a bushel. How many bushels do you have?

Jimmy- That sounds fair. I have ten bushels

Budman- OK. Every apple that has maggots on it is bad. That will be 100 dollars. Do you want to pay over the phone?

 

[Macabeus]

I am telling you what you are. I can prove it to you by the comparing the definition of the words " inspector " and " legalist " to your posts.

disagreeing with a man-made teaching does not make one wicked.

I guess you think the apostle John was a legalist too? Because by your definition of "inspect" John was also a fruit inspector.

1 John 2:3- And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

1 John 3:19- And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

1 John 5:18- We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

 

[Macabeus]

Listen PAL.....you are about to go bye bye if you keep lying and misrepresenting what I am saying........

a. Everyone who truly believes is born of God. (John 3)

b. Everyone who has truly been born of God loves. (1 John 3:14)

c. Biblical love is not in word or tongue only, but also in deed and truth. (1 John 3:18)

SO where did this notion of fruitles (loveless) Christianity come from, where a Christian has to wait to bear fruit. If that is true, then one of the premises a, b, or c is false. SO which one is false, DC?

 

[Macabeus]

If we do not love in action, we do not truly love. ( 1 John 3:18- My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. )

 

[Macabeus]

Get some honesty and take your medicine dude or like I said do not address me....YOU SAID the following..and the following states clearly by implication that FAITH and LOVE are BOTH required to be saved....and that is false....LOVE is a process of GROWTH as evidenced by the word PERFECTED......AND JAMES does not say that.....

Macabeus said:
Amen. Faith works by love. (oh by the way, faith is a fruit also)

It does not work properly where love is absent. Because he who does not love does not know God.

Faith without love is faith without works, and it is dead Faith without love is dead and fruitless.

I never said "faith and love are both required to be saved".

When James said "faith without works is dead", was he saying that works are required to be saved?

Of course not.


So if his words do not ammount to what is needed for justification and regeneration, mine do not ammount to that either. More misrepresentation on your part.

 

[gb9]

I guess you think the apostle John was a legalist too? Because by your definition of "inspect" John was also a fruit inspector.

1 John 2:3- And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1 John 3:14- We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not hisbrother abideth in death.

1 John 3:19- And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

1 John 5:18- We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

what commands are John referring to?

chapter 3, same letter- the commands - " believe in the name of Son, and love one another,".

and, John means any who claim to be a Christ follower, yet live a lifestyle of sin, has not been born of God.

so, there is that. this is not fruit inspecting.

this is a man who walked with Jesus telling believers things.

 

[Macabeus]

what commands are John referring to?

chapter 3, same letter- the commands - " believe in the name of Son, and love one another,".

and, John means any who claim to be a Christ follower, yet live a lifestyle of sin, has not been born of God.

so, there is that. this is not fruit inspecting.

this is a man who walked with Jesus telling believers things.

...and love is a fruit, GB

and biblical love is not in word and tongue only, but also in deed and truth.

Welcome to Bible class 101

So why do you guys insist that it takes a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit, when the Bible clearly says otherwise?