Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

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John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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It's still the same Gospel to both. The terms used reflect the different target groups.
Sounds good, but there would not be the two terms pointed to specifically one to Jews and one to Gentiles. There was a difference.
 

John146

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If you take the Bible literally where it is intended, and see that God often deals with Israel separate from the Church, then that to me is the core of the dispensational approach. Personally I see that James applies to both the Jewish and Gentile believers.
Obviously, part of the audience had not received the word and their souls not saved. James 1:21.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
You didn’t even realised there was a gospel of the kingdom for the Jews.

But that is expected. As I said it takes a dispensationalist to accept that.
Um no

I have no idea what your talking about

The gospel of the kingdom was for all people. John the baptist preached it long before James and or paul. .
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Are the sick healed when elders pray over them? Every time, no ifs or buts? Are sins forgiven through the prayers of others? During the 2000 years of the Church, has the Lord’s coming been nigh?

Does the following literally describe you? The body of Christ? Or do you privately interpret it other than what it literally says?

2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Yes those things pertain to the church. I know this, They did not happen in the OT every time either.. I think you just make this stuff up;

dude, I do not know where you come up with this stuff. But it is not according to the word.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Sounds good, but there would not be the two terms pointed to specifically one to Jews and one to Gentiles. There was a difference.
The difference was that Peter was to give the Gospel mainly to the Jews and Paul was mainly to the Gentiles, otherwise...

Romans 3:9 (KJV) What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Romans 3:20-25 (KJV) Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

and especially...

Galatians 1:8-9 (KJV) But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Yes those things pertain to the church. I know this, They did not happen in the OT every time either.. I think you just make this stuff up;

dude, I do not know where you come up with this stuff. But it is not according to the word.
Every time elders pray in faith over the sick, the sick are healed in the Church? Really? Signs and miracles will be part of the message to the Jews to confirm the message.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Um no

I have no idea what your talking about

The gospel of the kingdom was for all people. John the baptist preached it long before James and or paul. .
Who did John preach it to? Gentiles? Jews? Why did Jesus tell His disciples not to preach the kingdom gospel to samaritans or Gentiles?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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Obviously, part of the audience had not received the word and their souls not saved. James 1:21.
James 1:21 (KJV) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Obviously they had already the implanted Word which couples with v18..James 1:18 (KJV) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

You do remember salvation is in three senses? We have been saved, we are being saved, and one day we shall be saved.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
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James 1:21 (KJV) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Obviously they had already the implanted Word which couples with v18..James 1:18 (KJV) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

You do remember salvation is in three senses? We have been saved, we are being saved, and one day we shall be saved.
I am saved. Period. At the moment of belief in the gospel of Christ. My soul is completely saved for eternity.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
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James 1:21 (KJV) Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

Obviously they had already the implanted Word which couples with v18..James 1:18 (KJV) Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

You do remember salvation is in three senses? We have been saved, we are being saved, and one day we shall be saved.
V18 is a perfect representation of Israel, a kind of fitstfruits.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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I am saved. Period. At the moment of belief in the gospel of Christ. My soul is completely saved for eternity.
Also our soul is being further sanctified (unless you are now perfect) and one day we will be saved from the wrath to come. (Rom 5:9-10). Or do you just like arguing?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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V18 is a perfect representation of Israel, a kind of fitstfruits.
V18 Israel? I don't see Israel in that passage. Weren't you born again through His Word in the Gospel?

or...

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Every time elders pray in faith over the sick, the sick are healed in the Church? Really? Signs and miracles will be part of the message to the Jews to confirm the message.
Now who is adding to the word.

It does not say EVERY TIME

And did that happen in the OT

NO

So either way YOUR WRONG!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Who did John preach it to? Gentiles? Jews? Why did Jesus tell His disciples not to preach the kingdom gospel to samaritans or Gentiles?
FIRST to the JEW, Then to Sameria Then to the ends of the earth

You keep looking-for excuses, and they keep failing

It was the SAME GOSPEL
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
V18 Israel? I don't see Israel in that passage. Weren't you born again through His Word in the Gospel?

or...

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Amen

As jesus told peter and the 11, Your completely clean because of the word I gave you. Even in John 6. The word, which one can EAT and never die

The gospel was already being preached
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
FIRST to the JEW, Then to Sameria Then to the ends of the earth

You keep looking-for excuses, and they keep failing

It was the SAME GOSPEL
Matthew 28: 18) Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” (NIV)
 

Melach

Well-known member
Mar 28, 2019
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If you take the Bible literally where it is intended, and see that God often deals with Israel separate from the Church, then that to me is the core of the dispensational approach. Personally I see that James applies to both the Jewish and Gentile believers.
can you show me where He deals with them separately?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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can you show me where He deals with them separately?
Sure, here is an example. When did Jesus promise His Church land?

Genesis 45:18 (KJV) And take your father and your households, and come unto me: and I will give you the good of the land of Egypt, and ye shall eat the fat of the land.

Exodus 6:8 (KJV) And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

Leviticus 20:24 (KJV) But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the LORD your God, which have separated you from other people.


Leviticus 26:6 (KJV) And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.


Ezekiel 11:17 (KJV) Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Now who is adding to the word.

It does not say EVERY TIME

And did that happen in the OT

NO

So either way YOUR WRONG!
You see the word “shall”? That means it’s a done deal. No maybe, shall save the sick. Kind of like whosoever calls upon the name of the Lord SHALL be saved. Every time. And to boot, the faith of others forgives sins. This is not Church doctrine, unless you’re in the RCC.

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,177
3,700
113
FIRST to the JEW, Then to Sameria Then to the ends of the earth

You keep looking-for excuses, and they keep failing

It was the SAME GOSPEL
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.