Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[eternally-gratefull]

This scripture lines up perfectly with what KelbyofGod is stating:
"After you heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation,...having believed your were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise...

Notice the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation stated by Peter; repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sin, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. After hearing the message of truth and the gospel a person will act upon it and God will give the Holy Ghost whenever He chooses to do so.

Your whole concept is wrong

1. Peter never said to be water baptized to receive anything. He said to be baptised BECAUSE you have received something already.
2. There is only one way to act on it, That is to do as the tax collector did, and get on your knees and call out to God in FAITH for mercy. Remember, this is the one to whom Jesus said would go home justified.

 

[Wansvic]

I am not talking about acts, That was the BEGINING of the going forth of the church, Thangs hppened differently because it was a new thing, and God used many signs to ensure that people understood this new movement was from God.

You can not relate the whole church based on a few examples

Acts records the instructions for being spiritually born into the NT church. The birthing process into the church family continued after Pentecost and continues to do so until this day.

Where is it recorded that the NT spiritual birthing process changed?

We see the birthing process in at least 4 specific cases. We are told that a concept must include at least 2 or 3 witnesses to be a proven/established concept:
"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." 2 Cor 13:1

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Acts records the instructions for being spiritually born into the NT church. The birthing process into the church family continued after Pentecost and continues to do so until this day.

Where is it recorded that the NT spiritual birthing process changed?

We see the birthing process in at least 4 specific cases. We are told that a concept must include at least 2 or 3 witnesses to be a proven/established concept:
"...In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." 2 Cor 13:1

The birthing process has always been the same, Believe in the name of the lord jesus christ and you will be saved,

What happened AFTER one is born again varied in the very beginning as a sign to the world it was from God and not just some made up thing from the followers of a convicted criminal

 

[Wansvic]

Your whole concept is wrong

1. Peter never said to be water baptized to receive anything. He said to be baptised BECAUSE you have received something already.

Ananias comment re: remission to Paul:
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

John's comment re: remission:
Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

After Jesus' resurrection those who were initially water baptized by John were rebaptized into the name of Jesus' for remission of sin.

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
KJV

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ananias comment re: remission to Paul:
Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

John's comment re: remission:
Mark 1:4
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

After Jesus' resurrection those who were initially water baptized by John were rebaptized into the name of Jesus' for remission of sin.

Acts 2:38
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost
KJV

Dude, Water baptism has never saved one soul. Spirit baptism is what saves.

Your trying to credit some man, who himself is a sinner in need of salvation, With washing your sins away by immersing you in water

That will make you no more clean than a man who needed saved circumcising a child in Israel. Or making a sacrifice of atonement in the temple.

You need to be carefu, Your attributing to whoever baptised you in water the work of God. Who himeself and only him can wash you by baptizing you into christ.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Your whole concept is wrong

1. Peter never said to be water baptized to receive anything. He said to be baptised BECAUSE you have received something already.
2. There is only one way to act on it, That is to do as the tax collector did, and get on your knees and call out to God in FAITH for mercy. Remember, this is the one to whom Jesus said would go home justified.

Just to be make a few observation

Your whole concept is wrong - Not exactly beating about the bush or being polite

What follows is definitive statements, as if they are spoken by God.
And this is all stated without scripture or reference and as such is merely an opinion, and
even the details are so absolute as to be laughable. "get on your knees"

7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4

Now scripture is quite different to what is being stated, so who should we listen to, scripture
or EG? And why take such an approach? Is scripture not clear enough?

 

[Wansvic]

The birthing process has always been the same, Believe in the name of the lord jesus christ and you will be saved,

What happened AFTER one is born again varied in the very beginning as a sign to the world it was from God and not just some made up thing from the followers of a convicted criminal

Curious why people present on the Day of Pentecost, who asked what they must do, were not just told to believe in Jesus to be saved from the perverse generation.

Acts 2:38-42
When Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..."

 

[Wansvic]

Dude, Water baptism has never saved one soul. Spirit baptism is what saves.

Your trying to credit some man, who himself is a sinner in need of salvation, With washing your sins away by immersing you in water

That will make you no more clean than a man who needed saved circumcising a child in Israel. Or making a sacrifice of atonement in the temple.

You need to be carefu, Your attributing to whoever baptised you in water the work of God. Who himeself and only him can wash you by baptizing you into christ.

God developed the plan, not I. Being obedient to God's command to be water baptized is what makes it significant. It has nothing to do with the person administering; they are only there to help submerge and lift one from the "spiritual" womb of water. And, of course one must also receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost at some point.

 

[garee]

It doesn't matter if we don't understand how it will benefit us prior to doing it. Just like Jesus told Peter "You won't understand what this is before you experience it, but you'll understand afterwards" when Jesus was about to wash Peter's feet. Peter's struggled intellectually with this concept and Jesus did not indulge his desire to understand it. Peter had to submit himself (by faith) to what didn't make sense to him... before he would understand its purpose/benefit.

Yes I would consider that walking by faith in respect to Christ who worked in Peter to create a desire in Peter in order to teach us the importance of washing each others feet. It is a picture of Christ washing away our sin pouring out His Spirit on corrupted flesh . He said to Peter who resisted .If I do not wash your feet then you have no part with me. Then it made sense when Christ interpreted the parable to Peter as with us.. Feet represent the work of the word of messengers. We should continue to wash each others. This message board provides that place .

That's also how it is with tongues. Yes, indeed it edifies the speaker, but No, you won't understand how that works until you receive it and experience it yourself.

That's if it was in the same way. I don't think also how it is with tongues. That would assume the sign confirms the same thing a blessing as with Peter.

If it is a sign that confirms unbelief why would we desire to seek after a experience? Is that not how mankind fell ?.God did not desire mankind to know good and evil by experience.

I would think we should be careful of making experience the law of the unseen spiritual things. Experience can be true but experience of itself has no boundaries the imagination is the limit.Just believe. . Spiritual things not seen can get turned upside down easily. . Jesus proved it in Mathew 4. Every time the father of lies would bring in a lying wonder that Jesus did experience . (All the kingdoms of the world and all the glory). he would rather than believe in a fleshly image in his mind. He did the will of the father not seen and would reply over and over three times as it is written. It is the one source of faith given by God by which we can believe Him .

Remember signs confirm either a blessing or a curse. The tongues doctrine which has it foundation in Isaiah 28. It speaks of God mocking those who have no faith by which they could believe God, and set a sign against them. But they still would not put their trust in a unseen they stopped up their ears and refused to hear God. Ultimately a sign to the whole world he is a God to the Gentile as well as to a Jew . One bride the church .

Tongues is simply one of the many manners God brought prophecy before the book of prophecy the Bible was sealed up with seven seals till the end of time.

The warning not to add or subtract from the perfect law written in the law book ,the Bible applies for today. No new prophecy after any manner . Not dreams, drawing of straws, tongues.... like the prophecy spoken of by Peter where many nations heard the interpretation of God and believed God. Or new prophecy in a language or manner known to both, the hearer and the speaker. The greatest or most widely used manner. The one we communicate by even here or at least myself. I am not bi-lingo .

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Just to be make a few observation

Your whole concept is wrong - Not exactly beating about the bush or being polite

What follows is definitive statements, as if they are spoken by God.
And this is all stated without scripture or reference and as such is merely an opinion, and
even the details are so absolute as to be laughable. "get on your knees"

7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4

Now scripture is quite different to what is being stated, so who should we listen to, scripture
or EG? And why take such an approach? Is scripture not clear enough?

well exactly

we see this often in the forum when it comes to tongues or related subjects

remarks are made, as you say as definitive statements as if spoken by God, and all of it without scripture or reference

in another thread, I Corinthians 14 is being quoted from by a couple of posters and they are conveniently leaving out every single verse that proves them wrong in what they say regarding interpretation

good points! I know I will listen to scripture...meaning all of it and not pick and choose what parts support my opinion or attempt to spin what is being said

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Curious why people present on the Day of Pentecost, who asked what they must do, were not just told to believe in Jesus to be saved from the perverse generation.

Acts 2:38-42
When Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..."

ONCE AGAIN

The origional language does not say this

In the origional text

Peter tells EVERYONE to repent

He only tells a select group to be baptized.

So your WRONG

If youy want to base your WHOLE eternity on a passage and nto see what that passge ACTUALLY says as originally written, FEEL FREE.

But to me, eternity is far to long to risk making the mistake of not understanding what was actually sad

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God developed the plan, not I. Being obedient to God's command to be water baptized is what makes it significant. It has nothing to do with the person administering; they are only there to help submerge and lift one from the "spiritual" womb of water. And, of course one must also receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost at some point.

Yes he did

And water baptism is not part of that plan. (Funny how the jews thought the work of Circumcision was part of gods plan also)

As Paul said to titus,

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE (water baptism is one of many many works of righteousness which we can do, and many have done) But by Gods MERCY, HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL of the HOLY SPIRIT

Your water baptism did not wash one sin away, And if you have not been washed by the HS, Your still dead in your sin no matter how many times you get water baptized.

 

[obedienttogod]

God is not Mocked!!

Paul specified there was a Spoken Tongue that no man could understand (ONLY God could understand). Paul even clarifies it by stating that no man can hear it (personally, I believe man can hear something being audible, but they cannot hear in the sense of being able to understand what is being said, they cannot comprehend it).

But that still leaves what Paul said, there is a Spoken Tongue that is unknown to humans meant only for God and His understanding!!
That portion of the verse ^ is 100% factual like the rest of the verse.

 

[garee]

Curious why people present on the Day of Pentecost, who asked what they must do, were not just told to believe in Jesus to be saved from the perverse generation.

Acts 2:38-42
When Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine..."

I would think in that case they were told to ask.(moved by the Spirit). . The commandment as the living abiding word and not a suggestion to them is as it is to us today .The call that turn us towards Him ....Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the authority of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. A new born again faith not of ones own self. They that did receive the living word obeying what it said (believe God not seen) confirmed the baptism of the Holy Spirit showing the authority of His name performed its labor of love..

 

[Wansvic]

ONCE AGAIN

The origional language does not say this

In the origional text

Peter tells EVERYONE to repent

He only tells a select group to be baptized.

So your WRONG

If youy want to base your WHOLE eternity on a passage and nto see what that passge ACTUALLY says as originally written, FEEL FREE.

But to me, eternity is far to long to risk making the mistake of not understanding what was actually sad

Peter says repent, and be baptized EVERYONE of you...
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter goes on to say the instructions pertain to their children, those afar off (future) as many as the Lord shall call. I believe the Lord is still calling individuals.

In addition, afterward the exact three things occur for Samaritans (Acts 8), and Gentiles (Acts 10) and individual disciples in Acts 19.

These events witness to one another as an established concept laid out by God.

 

[Noose]

Peter says repent, and be baptized EVERYONE of you...
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter goes on to say the instructions pertain to their children, those afar off (future) as many as the Lord shall call. I believe the Lord is still calling individuals.

In addition, afterward the exact three things occur for Samaritans (Acts 8), and Gentiles (Acts 10) and individual disciples in Acts 19.

These events witness to one another as an established concept laid out by God.

Peter was talking about salvation. No one said salvation ceased.

 

[Wansvic]

As Paul said to titus,

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE (water baptism is one of many many works of righteousness which we can do, and many have done) But by Gods MERCY, HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL of the HOLY SPIRIT

Water baptism is NOT a work of righteousness. Works are things such as being kind to a neighbor, giving money to those in need, etc.

Water baptism for the remission of sin was mandated by God upon its introduction/initiation by John the Baptist and later the apostles stated the name of Jesus was to be invoked because the work of His death, burial and resurrection was complete.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Peter says repent, and be baptized EVERYONE of you...
Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Peter goes on to say the instructions pertain to their children, those afar off (future) as many as the Lord shall call. I believe the Lord is still calling individuals.

In addition, afterward the exact three things occur for Samaritans (Acts 8), and Gentiles (Acts 10) and individual disciples in Acts 19.

These events witness to one another as an established concept laid out by God.

You can post the same verse as written in english 1000 times, It will not make it say what you think it says (only in the english text)

Once again, Repent is 2nd person plural

Be baptized is third person singular’

They are not related.

IF peter was saying what you say, He would have used second person plural in BOTH cases (repent and be baptised) that fact he did not. PROVES that he is not telling everyone to be baptised in water to recieve the gift of the spirit

This is proven also by the fact that the passage says AND THOSE WHO BELIEVED (by repenting) WERE BAPTIZED.

They were saved BEFORE they were baptized. Because they had already BELIEVED IN THE NAME OF JESUS, NOT after!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Water baptism is NOT a work of righteousness.

Yes it is, A work is any act you do in whcih you are physically doing something, and can recieve credit (boast) or earn a wage

Not only is water baptism in your belief a physical act. But you state the WAGE of that physical act is remission of sin thus salvation.

So your twice wrong (see rom 4)

Works are things such as being kind to a neighbor, giving money to those in need, etc.

Water baptism for the remission of sin was mandated by God upon its introduction/initiation by John the Baptist and later the apostles stated the name of Jesus was to be invoked because the work of His death, burial and resurrection was complete.

A work is an obedient act

Loving others is an obedient act, Being baptised is an obedeint act, Going to church is an obedeint act.

Your trying to take one obedient act and make it different from all other ones. Which is wrong..

 

[Wansvic]

NOT by works of righteousness which we HAVE DONE (water baptism is one of many many works of righteousness which we can do, and many have done) But by Gods MERCY, HE SAVED US, by the WASHING and RENEWAL of the HOLY SPIRIT

The scripture you mention in Titus makes a distinction between the washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Ghost and is referring to water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism. This again lines up with what Peter instructed: get water baptized and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Holy Ghost baptism) Each is needed or God would not have included both.
Titus 3:5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;