Some truth about speaking in tongues, the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and 1 Corinthians 14

[KelbyofGod]

I honestly don’t care if you think peter was out or not,

You posted that in response to my equally distasteful "I honestly don't care if you call it part of salvation or not." (I only quoted yours instead of mine so it would give you the alert that I've posted a reply).

I owe you (and everyone else) an apology for using that wording. It was an inconsiderate wording that I know should be avoided.

Almost every time we use the word "you" in the manner we did, it changes the message to convey a personal attack and detracts greatly from the real issue. (Satan loves it when we attack each other and forget about the important stuff)

I should have used a different wording. I could have said "I honestly don't care if WE call it a part of salvation or not". That would have avoided the personal attack and may have allowed the real point to be more clearly seen. The point being this... How we categorize it doesn't really matter ...because... Peter would have had no part with Jesus if Peter didn't submit to it.

BTW, try replacing the "you" with a "we" in your own statement to see if it changes the tone...or even the meaning and accuracy.
I had to admit that my original statement was not only offensive, it was also false because I actually do care if you, I, or we all consider it a part of salvation(or not).

There's another thing I need to acknowledge about you (As a matter of respect, and to give credit where credit is due) before I highlight several points of disagreement. but I'll do that in the next post...

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You posted that in response to my equally distasteful "I honestly don't care if you call it part of salvation or not." (I only quoted yours instead of mine so it would give you the alert that I've posted a reply).

I owe you (and everyone else) an apology for using that wording. It was an inconsiderate wording that I know should be avoided.

Almost every time we use the word "you" in the manner we did, it changes the message to convey a personal attack and detracts greatly from the real issue. (Satan loves it when we attack each other and forget about the important stuff)

I should have used a different wording. I could have said "I honestly don't care if WE call it a part of salvation or not". That would have avoided the personal attack and may have allowed the real point to be more clearly seen. The point being this... How we categorize it doesn't really matter ...because... Peter would have had no part with Jesus if Peter didn't submit to it.

BTW, try replacing the "you" with a "we" in your own statement to see if it changes the tone...or even the meaning and accuracy.
I had to admit that my original statement was not only offensive, it was also false because I actually do care if you, I, or we all consider it a part of salvation(or not).

There's another thing I need to acknowledge about you (As a matter of respect, and to give credit where credit is due) before I highlight several points of disagreement. but I'll do that in the next post...

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

I apologize as well

 

[Waggles]

It is a real joy to go out and preach the gospel to others knowing that God is calling those who are seeking the truth about God
and salvation.
And through sharing the scriptures (and sharing my own testimony) those whom God is calling in to his Spirit-filled church
will believe and repent; and submit and obey; and undertake full immersion water baptism for the remission of their sins;
and experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues - a new wonderful spiritual
prayer language, that delivers through faith many blessings, healings and miracles.

The Spirit of truth that teaches and convicts; the Spirit of adoption; the Spirit of power; the Spirit of righteousness; the Spirit
of Christ …

 

[notuptome]

It is a real joy to go out and preach the gospel to others knowing that God is calling those who are seeking the truth about God
and salvation.
And through sharing the scriptures (and sharing my own testimony) those whom God is calling in to his Spirit-filled church
will believe and repent; and submit and obey; and undertake full immersion water baptism for the remission of their sins;
and experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tongues - a new wonderful spiritual
prayer language, that delivers through faith many blessings, healings and miracles.

The Spirit of truth that teaches and convicts; the Spirit of adoption; the Spirit of power; the Spirit of righteousness; the Spirit
of Christ …

False gospel is no gospel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Waggles]

False gospel is no gospel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger

I see unbelief is alive and well.

 

[KelbyofGod]

Eternally-gratefull,
The credit I need to give is that you have a much deeper, more detailed doctrine than most and I often forget or fail to understand some important aspect of your viewpoint. Subsequently, I sometimes reach faulty conclusions and have falsely accused you of at least one conflict.

After some prayer, I can see that your belief system doesn't have a conflict in Romans 8:12-17... but that's not the same as saying the belief system is correct. I've been considering how to word it to show the error, but that will have to wait for later. Meanwhile...

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

 

[garee]

I don't, which is why I didn't introduce the term.

What I actually wrote in the last part of post #387 is this:

"Tongues does not equal prophecy" means "tongues is not the same thing as prophecy." They don't equal something else."

You responded by asking what tongues does equal, which is an irrelevant rabbit trail. Despite my efforts to steer you back the whole of my statement, you keep attempting to take the conversation further off the topic. I'm not playing that game.

I am not playing the game to stay away from manners or different approaches God uses to make himself known to mankind..

What does the sign of tongues confirm?

it would seem you are saying there are not different manners by which God brings his thoughts to us? What does tongues equal if not prophecy, the word of God. What would non prophecy confirm?

Tongue equals prophecy as one of the manners he did bring it. When he was still adding .

 

[garee]

I see unbelief is alive and well.

Its what the sign of tongues points to. What do you think the law in 1 Corinthian 14 verse 21 and 22 confirms . Believe as prophecy or unbelief, no prophecy? It cannot point to both.

Perhaps check out the foundation in Isaiah 28 as to why God is mocking the faithless Jews

 

[garee]

Yes

For example. If someone would come in speaking panish, That would be an UNKNOWN language to me, and if it was in my church, and no one (including that person) spoke spanish, an interpreter would be required

The language is not unknown to the speaker. The word unknown was added .It just adds confusion.

 

[Dino246]

I am not playing the game to stay away from manners or different approaches God uses to make himself known to mankind..

What does the sign of tongues confirm?

it would seem you are saying there are not different manners by which God brings his thoughts to us? What does tongues equal if not prophecy, the word of God. What would non prophecy confirm?

Tongue equals prophecy as one of the manners he did bring it. When he was still adding .

I don't know how you can read reasonably clear Scripture and come up with a conclusion that is diametrically opposed to what it says.

 

[Dino246]

The language is not unknown to the speaker. The word unknown was added .It just adds confusion.

If the language is "not unknown to the speaker", then it's not a gift of the Holy Spirit.

 

[garee]

If the language is "not unknown to the speaker", then it's not a gift of the Holy Spirit.

I think you meant to say if the language is not known to the speaker then it a cannot be a gift. I would agree with that.

 

[garee]

I don't know how you can read reasonably clear Scripture and come up with a conclusion that is diametrically opposed to what it says.

It represent to the different manners of God bringing prophecy .Is that the kind of confusion you are referring to? More than one manner?

What do you think the sign of tongues confirms? What does tongues = if not prophecy God's word? Non-prophecy ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The language is not unknown to the speaker. The word unknown was added .It just adds confusion.

Then why is an interpreter required?

 

[oyster67]

The Spirit manifests itself in many ways. Tongues manifests in many ways. Can we agree on that?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eternally-gratefull,
The credit I need to give is that you have a much deeper, more detailed doctrine than most and I often forget or fail to understand some important aspect of your viewpoint. Subsequently, I sometimes reach faulty conclusions and have falsely accused you of at least one conflict.

After some prayer, I can see that your belief system doesn't have a conflict in Romans 8:12-17... but that's not the same as saying the belief system is correct. I've been considering how to word it to show the error, but that will have to wait for later. Meanwhile...

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

Look forward to discussing Rom 8

 

[Dino246]

I think you meant to say if the language is not known to the speaker then it a cannot be a gift. I would agree with that.

No, I wrote exactly what I meant. A person speaking a language he or she learned in childhood is not exercising a spiritual gift. A person speaking a language they learned in adulthood is also not exercising a spiritual gift... now or in the first century.

 

[Wansvic]

Yea I was just offering my thoughts on youtube about the theif on the cross. He hadnt yet recieved the Holy Spirit, since not even the apostles recieved it yet. And it seems that Jesus told the theif he would be in paradise.

The theif believed in Jesus. He knew Jesus wasnt some ordinary man, he believed Jesus was who He claimed to be if we consider "Remember me in your kingdom". (Sorry im just paraphrasing from memory.)

So we have the part of believing. Now repentance must have started long ago when he got caught and was imprisoned and sentenced to die by crucifixion! Some will repent having suffered less than this. Trust me ive been in jails and people cant handle a single night at time. Much less crucifixion! Imagine that!

So the theif long repented for his mistake and was on the cross paying for his sin. So the thief believed and had a repented heart. It was counted for him as salvation if we consider what Jesus told him. We are not saved by works. That theif is in Heaven. Jesus is not a liar.

And in Matthew 27 we see the graves were open and those saints that were asleep rose from the grave. Did they all have the Holy Spirit? Their faith was accounted them also it seems. And they rose with Christ. Just bringing my thoughts on the matter.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

The thief would have been under the Old Testament mandates because Jesus had not died and resurrected yet.

 

[Wansvic]

I never asked you that
I asked you if they had the HS

And yes my friend, One must have the HS to do them if they are empowered by God.

Why do you continue to ignore Eph 1: 13 - 14

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

This scripture lines up perfectly with what KelbyofGod is stating:
"After you heard the word of truth the gospel of your salvation,...having believed your were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise...

Notice the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation stated by Peter; repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sin, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. After hearing the message of truth and the gospel a person will act upon it and God will give the Holy Ghost whenever He chooses to do so.

 

[Wansvic]

Im not saying they didnt speak in tounges at the outpouring at Pentecost, im only saying thats not the only way we recieve the Holy Spirit.

Please provide scripture that shows something other than tongues accompanying the infilling of the Holy Ghost.