Calvinism And Predestination
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I like this portrayal of man. It is one I am familiar with. A whole together person, who has
unfortunately not heard the truth, but does the best, now before God and unfairly going to be thrown into the fire.
Let me put another picture. Man is just a husk making do and chivying things along, with moving loyalties
and certainties. When push comes to shove, shove is all that happens and most of all that God who gave
such a rubbish set of opportunities, who is He to demand so much of me, look at the terrible things they
did, I give back 20x the rubbish they have given me, and even that is not fair.
God is his divine justice can set debts right, but cannot resolve the emptiness and destruction within this lost
soul, they will just fall apart and die. I have met many who live 100% like this and see nothing wrong with
it, literally until the day they die. And this is the problem. A husk is just a husk, with no heart, nothing to save
or that which will stand before the King. Praise you for the cross and your transformation in our lives, dear Lord,
King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Amen.
unfortunately not heard the truth, but does the best, now before God and unfairly going to be thrown into the fire.
Let me put another picture. Man is just a husk making do and chivying things along, with moving loyalties
and certainties. When push comes to shove, shove is all that happens and most of all that God who gave
such a rubbish set of opportunities, who is He to demand so much of me, look at the terrible things they
did, I give back 20x the rubbish they have given me, and even that is not fair.
God is his divine justice can set debts right, but cannot resolve the emptiness and destruction within this lost
soul, they will just fall apart and die. I have met many who live 100% like this and see nothing wrong with
it, literally until the day they die. And this is the problem. A husk is just a husk, with no heart, nothing to save
or that which will stand before the King. Praise you for the cross and your transformation in our lives, dear Lord,
King of Kings and Lord of Lords, Amen.
According to Psalms 53:2-3, we made a mess of our lives by the free choice that God gave us to choose how we want to live our lives here on earth. God has all foreknowledge, the beginning from the end. He also accomplishes all of his will, Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and non e can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
From the point of view of a person with a heart of stone it is better to have that heart of stone. That way it can no longer be hurt. It is strong and cannot be taken advantage of.
Everything in this life tells us we must be strong and not let people or circumstances take advantage of us if we have the power to do so.
From the point of view of a person with a heart of flesh it is better to have that heart of flesh. That way we can begin to respond to what we were always supposed to respond to. God.
But how can those with the heart of flesh ever say that it was their wise choice that caused God to give them that heart of flesh?
How can those with the heart of flesh say that it was their good work that caused them to have that heart of flesh?
If these people with the heart of flesh know that it was God, and God alone, that did the work to give them this heart of flesh, how can they say they WEREN'T predestined by God who is all-knowing?
Everything in this life tells us we must be strong and not let people or circumstances take advantage of us if we have the power to do so.
From the point of view of a person with a heart of flesh it is better to have that heart of flesh. That way we can begin to respond to what we were always supposed to respond to. God.
But how can those with the heart of flesh ever say that it was their wise choice that caused God to give them that heart of flesh?
How can those with the heart of flesh say that it was their good work that caused them to have that heart of flesh?
If these people with the heart of flesh know that it was God, and God alone, that did the work to give them this heart of flesh, how can they say they WEREN'T predestined by God who is all-knowing?
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What I mean is people are not truly people in a consistent whole way until they have the Holy Spirit
dwelling within them. We have the potential, but are missing the dynamic life of God to make us
whole, not like a car with a flat tyre, but a car without an engine.
No matter how good the body work is, the car will not work or get you anywhere.
dwelling within them. We have the potential, but are missing the dynamic life of God to make us
whole, not like a car with a flat tyre, but a car without an engine.
No matter how good the body work is, the car will not work or get you anywhere.
I see this like plants bursting from a seed. Jesus uses this analogy all the time. The seed has
to die, and the plant start to grow, but the plant can die and be lost.
As soon as you have an absolute view of saved and lost, without choice or growth, or sowing to
the flesh or sowing to the Spirit this is the mess you end up with.
The gap between intention and reality matters. So many intend something never to deliver
and others who are not sure but stick with it until the very end.
to die, and the plant start to grow, but the plant can die and be lost.
As soon as you have an absolute view of saved and lost, without choice or growth, or sowing to
the flesh or sowing to the Spirit this is the mess you end up with.
The gap between intention and reality matters. So many intend something never to deliver
and others who are not sure but stick with it until the very end.
I "share" your sentiments concerning your last paragraph. Except, I really don't care if they wanna kill me, in trying to stop me from speaking out against the spirit of anti-christ. In their minds, I think, that by killing a "messenger", in their delusion(?), they are successfully "staving off", the "forward progression" of God's timeline!
This is pretty much precisely the same thing the pharasee's, and scribes were doing during Jesus' ministry on earth.
I, being a "staunch" believer in:
Psalm 110
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL(,) I MAKE thine enemies THY "Footstool."
This prophetic verse cannot be concerning Jesus' "earthly ministry!" Because they KILLED Him!
There have been "churches of stone" assemblies I've attended in the past, as well as "other venues" (
), where, like you? If given an opportunity? They'd KILL Jesus AGAIN!
They BLOW RIGHT BY this:
Romans 11
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Ya see? The writer of Romans was teaching concerning the "Gospel of Jesus Christ", INDIRECTLY!
The LARGER POINT? And, this is what many DON'T understand? Is the writer of Romans is DIRECTLY teaching concerning THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL!
And, it's not so much that there is anything I can tell, or teach, or preach to:
2 Thessalonians 2
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Hint: There's MORE to the "EVERLASTING GOSPEL", Then, the "Gospel of Jesus Christ!" Jesus knows it?
Paul knows it? James knows it? Thomas knows it? Jude knows it? Several other Disciples of Christ know it?
Even some in this venue know it!
Mark 9
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against US(?) IS ON OUR PART.
Tis for the "not yet converted", that may "drive by" venues such as this, in their "seeking/s."
(a little poem I just made up)
"Notre Dame in ruins"
"The faithful are aghast!"
"If this AIN'T TRIBULATION?"
"Well?....I'll _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!"
(another hint Jesus didn't come to earth! He was SENT!
People don't realize just how MUCH AN HONOR it is to SERVE the Living God of Abraham!
This is pretty much precisely the same thing the pharasee's, and scribes were doing during Jesus' ministry on earth.
I, being a "staunch" believer in:
Psalm 110
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, UNTIL(,) I MAKE thine enemies THY "Footstool."
This prophetic verse cannot be concerning Jesus' "earthly ministry!" Because they KILLED Him!
There have been "churches of stone" assemblies I've attended in the past, as well as "other venues" (
), where, like you? If given an opportunity? They'd KILL Jesus AGAIN!They BLOW RIGHT BY this:
Romans 11
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Ya see? The writer of Romans was teaching concerning the "Gospel of Jesus Christ", INDIRECTLY!
The LARGER POINT? And, this is what many DON'T understand? Is the writer of Romans is DIRECTLY teaching concerning THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL!
And, it's not so much that there is anything I can tell, or teach, or preach to:
2 Thessalonians 2
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
Hint: There's MORE to the "EVERLASTING GOSPEL", Then, the "Gospel of Jesus Christ!" Jesus knows it?
Paul knows it? James knows it? Thomas knows it? Jude knows it? Several other Disciples of Christ know it?
Even some in this venue know it!
Mark 9
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against US(?) IS ON OUR PART.
Tis for the "not yet converted", that may "drive by" venues such as this, in their "seeking/s."
(a little poem I just made up
)"Notre Dame in ruins"
"The faithful are aghast!"
"If this AIN'T TRIBULATION?"
"Well?....I'll _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!"
(another hint
Jesus didn't come to earth! He was SENT!People don't realize just how MUCH AN HONOR it is to SERVE the Living God of Abraham!
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The verse itself states: "...for by grace you have been saved [G4982 - sesōsmenoi - verb, perfect participle, middle/passive voice]" so I am not saying this is talking about people who haven't heard the gospel and are yet unsaved.
Paul could have used the word "zoopoieo - G2227" if he'd wanted to mean just that and that was his subject (as is used in John 5:21), or the word "palingenesias - G3824" if he'd meant that (as used in Titus 3:5), but he didn't (because he is speaking of something in particular, here), he used "synezōopoiēsen - G4806 - 'I make alive together with,' 'to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively) -- quicken together with' [with HIM, when He did! and He was not in need of the kind of "regeneration" you are speaking of; this was what occurred on His Resurrection Day/ON Firstfruit in 32ad, and applied to US at salvation (by grace through faith, and not before that)]
Paul could have used the word "zoopoieo - G2227" if he'd wanted to mean just that and that was his subject (as is used in John 5:21), or the word "palingenesias - G3824" if he'd meant that (as used in Titus 3:5), but he didn't (because he is speaking of something in particular, here), he used "synezōopoiēsen - G4806 - 'I make alive together with,' 'to reanimate conjointly with (figuratively) -- quicken together with' [with HIM, when He did! and He was not in need of the kind of "regeneration" you are speaking of; this was what occurred on His Resurrection Day/ON Firstfruit in 32ad, and applied to US at salvation (by grace through faith, and not before that)]
Yes, He says (often misquoted) of Himself:
"...DECLARING the END
FROM the BEGINNING".
DECLARING it. (THE END.) FROM THE BEGINNING.
But is this speaking of "determinism" in the sense that He wrote the script of every detailed thing that would ever transpire (like He wrote the script from the beginning that that man would rape that young girl??)
"...DECLARING the END
FROM the BEGINNING".
DECLARING it. (THE END.) FROM THE BEGINNING.
But is this speaking of "determinism" in the sense that He wrote the script of every detailed thing that would ever transpire (like He wrote the script from the beginning that that man would rape that young girl??)
I can agree with that sentence ^ , for Psalm 53:3 uses the word "H444 - ne-’ĕ-lā-ḥū - 'have become corrupt (morally)' https://biblehub.com/hebrew/444.htm " (reminding me of Romans 1, where it says of them [following what is said in vv. 21-23] "Wherefore God also gave them up TO...," "For this cause God gave them UP UNTO...," and "...God gave them over TO..."); so where Psalm 53:2 says "looked... upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God. Every one of them is gone back [turned himself away], they are altogether become corrupt [morally]…" is this speaking of before the Romans 1:19 "that which may be known of God is manifest in them; because God hath shewed it unto them," or after the Romans 1:21 "but when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God... and their foolish heart was darkened" [Ps53:1 had said, "The fool hath said in his heart, 'There is no God.'"]; so is Romans 1:21 speaking of the moment a baby is born, for example (or does the earlier verse)? If so, why the words "God gave them up to/unto/over to"?
The following text (Ezekiel 11, in part) reminds me a little of Romans 11:25[15] "a hardening in part is happened to Israel UNTIL" (see also Rom9:26/Hos1:10 re: Israel [whereas Rom9:25/Hos2:23b is re: the Gentiles]) and Ezekiel 37:12-14,20-23 (the "dry bones" prophecy [parallel Dan12:1-4, etc]) and Luke 19:41-44 (Jesus' words ['BUT NOW they are hid from thine eyes'] on Palm Sunday [the fulfillment of the 69 Wks], just before going to the Cross later that very week):
Ezekiel 11 [bsb] -
9 I will bring you out of the city and hand you over to foreigners; I will execute judgments against you. 10 You will fall by the sword, and I will judge you to the border of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
11 The city will not be a pot for you, nor will you be the meat within it. I will judge you even to the borders of Israel. 12 Then you will know that I am the LORD. For you have neither followed My statutes nor practiced my ordinances, but you have conformed to the ordinances of the nations around you.”
A Promise of Restoration
13 Now as I was prophesying, Pelatiah son of Benaiah died. Then I fell facedown and cried out in a loud voice, “Oh, Lord GOD, will You bring the remnant of Israel to a complete end?”
14 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 15 “Son of man, your brothers—your relatives, your fellow exiles, and the whole house of Israel—are those of whom the people of Jerusalem have said, ‘They are far from the LORD; this land has been given us as a possession.’
16 Therefore declare that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Although I sent them far away among the nations and scattered them among the countries, yet for a little while I have been a sanctuary for them in the countries to which they have gone.’
17 Therefore declare that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you from the countries to which you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel.’
18 ‘When they return to it, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. 19 And I will give them singleness of heart and put a new spirit within them; I will remove their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may follow My statutes, keep My ordinances, and practice them. Then they will be My people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for those whose hearts pursue detestable things and abominations, I will bring their conduct down upon their own heads, declares the Lord GOD.’”
God's Glory Leaves Jerusalem
22 Then the cherubim, with the wheels beside them, spread their wings, and the glory of the God of Israel was above them. 23 And the glory of the LORD rose up from within the city and stood over the mountain east of the city.
24 The Spirit lifted me up and carried me back to Chaldea [or, Babylonia] to the exiles in the vision given by the Spirit of God. After the vision I had seen had gone up from me, 25 I told the exiles everything the LORD had shown me.
Ezekiel 11 [bsb] -
9 I will bring you out of the city and hand you over to foreigners; I will execute judgments against you. 10 You will fall by the sword, and I will judge you to the border of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD.
11 The city will not be a pot for you, nor will you be the meat within it. I will judge you even to the borders of Israel. 12 Then you will know that I am the LORD. For you have neither followed My statutes nor practiced my ordinances, but you have conformed to the ordinances of the nations around you.”
A Promise of Restoration
13 Now as I was prophesying, Pelatiah son of Benaiah died. Then I fell facedown and cried out in a loud voice, “Oh, Lord GOD, will You bring the remnant of Israel to a complete end?”
14 Then the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 15 “Son of man, your brothers—your relatives, your fellow exiles, and the whole house of Israel—are those of whom the people of Jerusalem have said, ‘They are far from the LORD; this land has been given us as a possession.’
16 Therefore declare that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘Although I sent them far away among the nations and scattered them among the countries, yet for a little while I have been a sanctuary for them in the countries to which they have gone.’
17 Therefore declare that this is what the Lord GOD says: ‘I will gather you from the peoples and assemble you from the countries to which you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel.’
18 ‘When they return to it, they will remove from it all its detestable things and all its abominations. 19 And I will give them singleness of heart and put a new spirit within them; I will remove their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh, 20 so that they may follow My statutes, keep My ordinances, and practice them. Then they will be My people, and I will be their God.
21 But as for those whose hearts pursue detestable things and abominations, I will bring their conduct down upon their own heads, declares the Lord GOD.’”
God's Glory Leaves Jerusalem
22 Then the cherubim, with the wheels beside them, spread their wings, and the glory of the God of Israel was above them. 23 And the glory of the LORD rose up from within the city and stood over the mountain east of the city.
24 The Spirit lifted me up and carried me back to Chaldea [or, Babylonia] to the exiles in the vision given by the Spirit of God. After the vision I had seen had gone up from me, 25 I told the exiles everything the LORD had shown me.
We will never understand the grace of God unless we understand how depraved we are by nature. I believe Paul in Romans 1 is talking about the unrighteousness of some of God's children. Paul said that they knew God, and turned from him. I believe that he is speaking of how the church is to discipline the unrighteous (children of God) by excluding them from the Kingdom of God which is his church here on earth and that Christ is reigning as King over his Kingdom (church) ever sense he set it up.
