Not By Works
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It's not unloving to be intolerant of aberrant beliefs.
And as far as the mocking goes...well, Elijah is a hero of mine:
"And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.” (1 Kings 18:27)
I wonder firstly the sense of indignation at the word hypocrisy.
If indignation is about someone saying all sin every day, while another says specific sins, identified
and specified qualify as sin, which need to be repented of and set right before God.
The first is saying the second group are lying to themselves. Now lying only occurs if the same principle
is accepted by both parties. Calling someone guilty of something they do not accept is not a valid
definition of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy occurs where someone contradicts their own morality, so claiming on
thing while doing another.
This problem occurs when speaker cannot accept anothers framework. So to a vegan, I am murdering
animals, yet I do not feel guilt, nor should I. If a vegan wants to kill me for murder, then they are
committing a crime of equivalence.
So the disdain being expressed here is not Godly or biblical. I have seen some take this so far as to call
ordinary faithful believers in Christ the most evil people in the world. This is where this disjointed thinking
ends up, and is a sad reflection on a desire to hide sinful behaviour under the umbrella of grace.
Jesus rather calls all who follow Him His Holy people, washed, cleansed and purified.
And if these people one cannot love as He loved them, then you do not know God.
Emotional vulnerability
How guilty are we before God to sin and not be reconciled?
This is literally like standing before the gates of heaven and ignoring them.
God never compromised with sin, true evil, He has always opposed it and provided
reconciliation.
Jesus declared His burden is light and His way easy. If one finds the opposite something
is being done wrong, not the way is wrong.
Those who know their sin, cannot truly face God, because if they did they do not know
quite what they would do, because their faith denies resolution is truly possible.
How guilty are we before God to sin and not be reconciled?
This is literally like standing before the gates of heaven and ignoring them.
God never compromised with sin, true evil, He has always opposed it and provided
reconciliation.
Jesus declared His burden is light and His way easy. If one finds the opposite something
is being done wrong, not the way is wrong.
Those who know their sin, cannot truly face God, because if they did they do not know
quite what they would do, because their faith denies resolution is truly possible.
This is a real example of grace, for a man who obeyed and followed the law and all the
precepts of God. Righteousness expressed at all 3 levels
1. righteousness of faith
2. righteousness of the heart
3. righteousness of action
David repented and got clean with God. It is this reality many miss, for easy believism and living
only in righteousness of faith without knowing Gods cleansing of the heart to produce the other 2.
It is evident by the comment you are responding to that they are only trying to rile you up and provoke you.
Its best to stop engaging once the discussion hits a low-point like that. Its no longer about the issue but just sophistry and provocation.
This approach is taken because they declare their opposition are eternally doomed and driven
by satan, which in turns leads to some very unfortunate behaviour.
In one conversation, someone pointed out two positions were more or less the same, which
they denied like chalk and cheese. A new revolutionary group often make their closest group
their biggest enemy to be able to grow and get the greatest numbers of recruits. It is easy
pickings, and provoking people to anger etc. proves they are as evil as is claimed.
What is ironic, is anger management on their side is sorely lacking, and easily boils over into
rages. It is why many use the ignore feature because anger dominates their lives, which is odd
if they are filled with the Holy Spirit and walking in Gods ways.
I for one am happy to read everything they write, and see it from their perspective, because to
love and respect everyone is part of our calling, Praise the Lord, and know but by the grace of
God go we.
If it doesnt influence the salvation at all, hey, why not? You're only gonna lose some rewards
When its all said and done, the modern version of OSAS is predicted in the Bible and is unheard of in Church history, they could not even fathom such an idea.
A Christian named Irenaeus lived during the 2nd century A.D. (130-202). He wrote a book titled, “Against Heresies” in which he called attention to this particular fact. In this work (Book I Chapter 6) he said the following regarding Gnostic teaching:
But as to themselves, they hold that they shall be entirely and undoubtedly saved, not by means of conduct, but because they are spiritual by nature. For, just as it is impossible that material substance should partake of salvation (since, indeed, they maintain that it is incapable of receiving it), so again it is impossible that spiritual substance (by which they mean themselves) should ever come under the power of corruption, whatever the sort of actions in which they indulged. For even as gold, when submersed in filth, loses not on that account its beauty, but retains its own native qualities, the filth having no power to injure the gold, so they affirm that they cannot in any measure suffer hurt, or lose their spiritual substance, whatever the material actions in which they may be involved.
Wherefore also it comes to pass, that the “most perfect” among them addict themselves without fear to all those kinds of forbidden deeds of which the Scriptures assure us that “they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
And committing many other abominations and impieties, they run us down (who from the fear of God guard against sinning even in thought or word) as utterly contemptible and ignorant persons, while they highly exalt themselves, and claim to be perfect, and the elect seed. SOURCE
Compare this to what you hear from many of the pulpits today. Its like Peter predicted, Paul's writings wrested and twisted. Who would be the one bringing in false security and encouraging people to not repent by telling them they are okay if they believe in Jesus, positionally righteous while getting drunk regularly? Look at the fruits of easy believism that we have today, cant tell the difference between professing christians and the world.
Not in here for a debate, truth has already set me free. Once the Son sets you free you shall be free indeed. Just here to post my view, as many from the opposing side have also. -> I got no problem with any OSAS-believers, if they are in the faith, they are my brothers and sisters, no matter what theology they believe. <-
Looks like Fran is back again......nice try...no cigar....the bible does teach eternal security regardless of those that think and or believe in their minds they actually help JESUS do what he said he would do.....
Yeah. And I like that part where he said; "I said I would stay away if no one mentioned me."
As if he's some great theological force to be feared.
HAHAHHAAH no doubt........NOT!
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you are saying here but I have to disagree.
Is it not possible that those who know their son cannot face God because they do not know what God would do?
By this I mean they are waiting for "You have sinned once to many and so now your out, no more forgiveness is available to you"
FHS, there are belivers like that. They fear that God will reject them.
It's not that they do not want resolution, they want it alright.
But they can be stuck in the resolution of "I'm a dirty sinner, I obviously do not love God and as a result God cannot love me"
Is that the truth or is it a lie?
We know the answer but the person who has been fed the lie eventually will belive it's the truth.
So I disagree with your first premise.
With regards to your last comment one needs to indentify what that resolution is and that is based on what they truly believe what God thinks about them.
What I find interesting about you is that you come across as someone who does not struggle with what you have posted above, yet you make such a statement about others.
If so why so?
To be perfectly honest to tell someone to stop sinning, or stop a sin pattern is not the answer. If they could then they would not seek help.
Dealing with cause of the affect is what is needed.
I suggest you read the whole thread deceiver....he has accused me of lying to the Holy spirit....and NOW you are party to it...says a a lot about you spiritually!!!
What was the difference between Judas and Peter?
Peter had faith Jesus would forgive him because he knew Jesus.
Judas did not and did not understand the Kingdom.
Faith is knowing however big the mess we are in, Jesus is willing to come and work
with us. This is why salvation works, because He is saying work with me, do not give
up, I will work it through.
How deep are you willing to go to find real love? How deep do you think Jesus can
go to bring us back? There is no limit, but we need to believe that about Him.
And the cross is that statement. God did everything that can be done, but we need
to believe it because we see it, because it is literally there.
And we know He can do it, because He will change us. It takes time, it takes struggles,
failure, ups and downs but if the price is paid and the way is walked we will arrive.
It is His promise.
I think maybe you believe the lost who have given up are still saved.
Nope. They have made their choice, and this is the eternal division between the elect
who know the essence of love and cleansed heart and those who walk away broken
and lost.
For the entire thread ---> @Macabeus is a deceiver.....he has partially quoted me in his signature to specifically make e look bad....he is false and will be reported for this deception.....MY full quote is....
What Jesus do you follow....not the one of the bible...Because the one of the bible starts, finishes and completes the work of faith in those that believe and then if they do not abide faithful he remains faithful to his promise to start, finish and complete the work....
It must be tragic to follow such a weak, inept entity that does not keep his promise and or finish what he said he would finish!!
What Jesus do you follow....not the one of the bible...Because the one of the bible starts, finishes and completes the work of faith in those that believe and then if they do not abide faithful he remains faithful to his promise to start, finish and complete the work....
It must be tragic to follow such a weak, inept entity that does not keep his promise and or finish what he said he would finish!!
Who is the judge and who made the promises?
God is the judge, he laid down the principles.
Gods promises are true, and He will change us if we give our lives to Him and follow
His ways. If we walk in unbelief and abandon Him, His promises cannot work, because
their rely on our faith to transform us and keep us safe.
Emotions and realities rip us apart. Knowing we are loved and protected keeps us
safe and heals us from the wounds. So our faith is our salvation, stops the evil one,
brings us into the Kingdom and keeps us safe.
14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Eph 6
This armour is real and effective. Without it we can be destroyed.
God is the judge, he laid down the principles.
Gods promises are true, and He will change us if we give our lives to Him and follow
His ways. If we walk in unbelief and abandon Him, His promises cannot work, because
their rely on our faith to transform us and keep us safe.
Emotions and realities rip us apart. Knowing we are loved and protected keeps us
safe and heals us from the wounds. So our faith is our salvation, stops the evil one,
brings us into the Kingdom and keeps us safe.
14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place,
15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace.
16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
Eph 6
This armour is real and effective. Without it we can be destroyed.
I am male....... Fran is a woman's name. You got the wrong one.
I disagree and reject your premise that we are "helping" Jesus
Cool.....so.....who were you before you can back this time??? Same verbiage, mannerisms and even words......seems very very suspect
Can you point me to who I have similar verbiage? Dont care for your paranoid detective work. I have not been banned and "can back this time" which you seem to be suggesting.
Did someone else quote that same article I did previously or what exactly is the problem?
Their premise is everyone not like them is just adding to Jesus and His work to justify
themselves before God.
But no surprise there as to do anything "good" is evil because that detracts from Jesus.
So believers just become worse sinners to help Jesus look better exactly as Paul said
was not the way to follow Jesus.
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
Rom 6
Problem is by their own lips they have not died to sin and continue in it daily, willingly,
and do not see this denies their whole theology in Christ and being Holy Temples of
Gods Spirit.
SURE pal...........we will see......they always come back and end up getting nailed....If you have never been here before GOOD....if so....Like PETEY, SEOCHE and a few others.....by the way PETEY liked you post.....words, mannerisms, verbiage etc......ALWAYS come out in the end.....If you are NEW...cool....I apologize....
Lol.
Is this the shark tank?
dcontroversal I can assure you im NOT Petey or SEOCHE either! Despite someone liking my posts.
Lol.
Is this the shark tank?
dcontroversal I can assure you im NOT Petey or SEOCHE either! Despite someone liking my posts.
The two listed were banned and came back under different names while breaking the rules of this site....no honor or integrity......same with FRAN twice and PETEY twice....this is a fiery thread...we all defend what we believe to be truth....none of us mind debate, but the majority of the time we see what we say twisted, embellished or added to.....that WE cannot stand......and it seems that those who believe in eternal security get accused of numerous things that we do not say and or imply........