Why is the end times so important?
- Thread starter louis
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
NT writers tend tos hare the false expectation that Jesus would return "soon." Jesus' failure to "reappear" in a timely fashion created a faith crisis. So they trotted out that psalm that said, "One is as 1,000 years to the Lord, and 1,000 years as 1 day." In most of our decades since the early 20th century, preachers argued that Jesus was expected to return in their lifetime. When that didn't happen, many lost their faith or became disillusioned with the Bible prophecy movement. I don't expect Jesus to return in my lifetime, but I know I'll meet Him when I die. So my mortality--and yours--is a far more compelling reasons to get ready to meet your Maker than something as etherial and uncertain as the 2nd Coming!
The epectation of Christ's imminent return can also be used to promote evil. When I have encouraged people to pray for revival, I have been rebuked on the grounds that The Great Tribulation will soon be upon us; so it is too late to pray for revival! The Bible prophecy movement can be the enemy of the hard task of spiritual maturation!
The epectation of Christ's imminent return can also be used to promote evil. When I have encouraged people to pray for revival, I have been rebuked on the grounds that The Great Tribulation will soon be upon us; so it is too late to pray for revival! The Bible prophecy movement can be the enemy of the hard task of spiritual maturation!
You have a flawed third argument. There are 613 laws scattered through the Torah. Are you saying you keep all of them? It seems I remember a verse stating all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Jesus also stated the law is in place until the heavens and earth disappear. Sin is breaking the law!! Have you sinned??
Tell them Jesus said only the Father knows the date. Certain prophecies have taken place but others haven't. The abomination that causes desolation needs to take place most likely in the temple. The religious Jews are in the process of readying the site for the new temple. Excavations have proven here the temples stood. It is in the North end of the city of David right by the temple mount. The alter is there with Gion Springs flowing into a pool where the priests can ritually cleanse themselves. The wailing wall is part of the Roman Fort Antonio. The tradition about it being part of the temple complex started in 400AD. It is false. In Israel there is a model showing the temple Mount with the temple taking up the majority of the site with Fort Antonio in the corner. The problem is a Roman legion has 6000 soldiers and usually 4000 others doing tasks for the Legion. That required space for 10,000 people. That required the whole Temple Mount. A spring is required for the temple. No spring on the Temple Mount.
Here is a list of the flaws of the KJV.
Why do you keep using the now flawed KJV translation. The language and understanding of nature has changed over the 400 years since then. There are words that are no longer used. Do you know what a gold ouches is?
KJV Issues
Here is a list of problems with the KJV because of the 400 years of language and science understanding the things of nature.
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:
Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples
etc.
The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:
unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers:
Phrases that no longer make sense:
ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
(looked up ouches and today we put br in front of it and change the u to o. Brooches.)
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)
And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)
Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a one who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
(looked this up, it means the person is a man, NIV uses the word man)
KJV Issues sites
https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/
https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new
http://www.bibletexts.com/topics/kjv.htm
http://www.equip.org/article/is-your-modern-translation-corrupt/
http://www.hickoryhammockbaptist.org/kjva1.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html
The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2
Why do you keep using the now flawed KJV translation. The language and understanding of nature has changed over the 400 years since then. There are words that are no longer used. Do you know what a gold ouches is?
KJV Issues
Here is a list of problems with the KJV because of the 400 years of language and science understanding the things of nature.
For example, because of the changes in the English language, a number of words occur in the King James that make zero sense to most people today. These include the following nuggets that you will find scattered here and there:
Almug
Algum
Charashim
Chode
Cracknels
Gat
Habergeon
Hosen
Kab
Ligure
Neesed
Nusings
Ouches
ring-straked
sycamyne
trow
wimples
etc.
The King James translators also translated some animal names into animals that in fact we now have pretty good reason for thinking don’t actually exist:
unicorn (Deut. 33:17)
satyr (Isa 13:21);
dragon (Deut 32:33) (for serpent)
cockatrice (Isa 11:8),
arrowsnake (Gen 49:11, in the margin).
Moreover, there are phrases that simply don’t make sense any more to modern readers:
Phrases that no longer make sense:
ouches of gold (Exod. 28:11);
collops of fat (Job 15:25);
naughty figs (Jer 24:2);
ien with (Jer. 3:2);
the ground is chapt (Jer 14:4);
brazen wall” (Jer 15:20);
rentest thy face (Jer. 4:30);
urrain of the cattle (Exod. 9:2);
(looked up ouches and today we put br in front of it and change the u to o. Brooches.)
And there are whole sentences that are confusing at best, virtually indecipherable (or humorous)
And Jacob sod pottage (Gen 25:29)
And Mt. Sinai was altogether on a smoke (Exoc. 19:18)
Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing (Ps. 5:6)
I trow not (Luke 17:9)
We do you to wit of the grace of God (2 Cor. 8:1)
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels (2 Cor. 6:12)
He who letteth will let (2 Thes 2:7)
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd (Eccles. 12:11)
Other sentences make sense, but would today be considered somewhat problematic – at least for the sacred Scripture. My favorite is the one that refers to a one who: “Pisseth against the wall:…. 1 Sam 25:22, 34, I Kings 14:10!
(looked this up, it means the person is a man, NIV uses the word man)
KJV Issues sites
https://ehrmanblog.org/problems-with-the-language-of-the-king-james-version/
https://newrepublic.com/article/107222/making-it-new
http://www.bibletexts.com/topics/kjv.htm
http://www.equip.org/article/is-your-modern-translation-corrupt/
http://www.hickoryhammockbaptist.org/kjva1.html
https://www.gotquestions.org/different-gospel.html
The Use and Misuse of the King James Bible: An Interview with Mark Ward
Jonathan Petersen
March 13, 2018
https://www.biblegateway.com/blog/2...pJobID=1362532267&spReportId=MTM2MjUzMjI2NwS2
I am 71 years old and have heard and read many different self proclaimed prophets and those who think they have solved prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. Every one forcast events in the near future. None came to pass. One group following one of them them sold everything and donated the money to others and went to a barracks to await the end. After it failed to come to pass they felt foolish.
Jesus said only the Father knows the time.
Jesus said only the Father knows the time.
"Bingo!....'Amen'..........Thank you for sharing.....And...disturbing shall be the modern day Christianity...
worldly imagination and illusions shall be rampant...And...a great 'falling away' from Christ our Lord God...
And...unthinkable 'events' ....And...All shall be witness to unthinkable 'events' with intensified frequency...
on the horizon."
'Praise God'
worldly imagination and illusions shall be rampant...And...a great 'falling away' from Christ our Lord God...
And...unthinkable 'events' ....And...All shall be witness to unthinkable 'events' with intensified frequency...
on the horizon."
'Praise God'
Attachments
Hello GraceAndTruth! John was banished to Patmos during the reign of Domitian who ruled from 81 to 96 A.D. Therefore, it would have to have been sometime well after 81 A.D. that he wrote it.
Also, the day of the Lord has always been referred to as being near and coming quickly, even by the OT prophets. The inference is that it is imminent, as a date for the time of God's wrath never has a date attached to it. The meaning is that it is "on the horizon, looming, in the workings, approaching, coming, pending, nearing, inevitable, etc., etc.
And yet, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is given to the majority of the book of Revelation, has not yet taken place. For if they had, the majority of the population of the earth would be have been decimated, with Jesus returning just after the seventh bowl has been poured out.
Rev.1:19 is the key to understanding the chronological order of events, as John was told to write the following:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which also represents the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything that will take place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period
Currently, we are still living in the "what is now" section of what John was told to write. Once the church is gathered, this will end the "what is now" and will be followed by the "what must take place later" section of what John was told to write.
And if you can except it, Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up, which is also why we no longer see the word "church" mentioned again from that time forward.
Also, the day of the Lord has always been referred to as being near and coming quickly, even by the OT prophets. The inference is that it is imminent, as a date for the time of God's wrath never has a date attached to it. The meaning is that it is "on the horizon, looming, in the workings, approaching, coming, pending, nearing, inevitable, etc., etc.
And yet, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which is given to the majority of the book of Revelation, has not yet taken place. For if they had, the majority of the population of the earth would be have been decimated, with Jesus returning just after the seventh bowl has been poured out.
Rev.1:19 is the key to understanding the chronological order of events, as John was told to write the following:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the churches, which also represents the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything that will take place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period
Currently, we are still living in the "what is now" section of what John was told to write. Once the church is gathered, this will end the "what is now" and will be followed by the "what must take place later" section of what John was told to write.
And if you can except it, Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being caught up, which is also why we no longer see the word "church" mentioned again from that time forward.
I am very happy with the KJV. That and other back up documents...are satisfying.
Example;...why does the NIV say....Gods....? Why not God? The editor's office told me that it refers to the Trinity...as three gods.
I can find fault with all editions. You can to if you wish to look.
No...don't ask I will not spend the time.
Example;...why does the NIV say....Gods....? Why not God? The editor's office told me that it refers to the Trinity...as three gods.
I can find fault with all editions. You can to if you wish to look.
No...don't ask I will not spend the time.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption based on a false literal hermeneutic. Not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
False.
Not according to Scripture. Revelation tells us SEVEN times in Revelation 1: 1,3 & Rev 22: 6, 7,10,12 and 20 that the book will be fulfilled shortly.
Rev 22: 6, Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must SHORTLY take place.
Scripture.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption based on a false literal hermeneutic. Not Scripture.
Dispensational assumption not Scripture.
False.
Not according to Scripture. Revelation tells us SEVEN times in Revelation 1: 1,3 & Rev 22: 6, 7,10,12 and 20 that the book will be fulfilled shortly.
Rev 22: 6, Then he said to me, “These words are faithful and true." And the Lord God of the holy prophets sent His angel to show His servants the things which must SHORTLY take place.
Scripture.
-
1
- Show all
Yes, maybe even more. I don't know the exact percentage but there is between 250 and 400 references to the Old Testament. I have never tried to count it but those are the numbers I have heard. You have to understand the OT to understand Revelation.
For example, the new heavens and earth. It is not a physical place. It's Christ's kingdom and the church.
The new heavens and earth is mentioned in Isaiah 65 & 66 and Rev 21 & 22. We need to look at all four chapters to get a complete picture of what the new heavens and earth really is. What do we find described there?
In Isaiah 65: 1-16 we see rebellious old covenant Israel described and God saying He will call His people by a new name (Gentiles) and destroy the rebellious Jews/Israelites which He did in 70 A.D.
In verse 17 he introduces the new heavens and earth and in verse 18 he explains what it is. A Jerusalem whose is a rejoicing and her people a joy. In Galatians 4: 22-31 Paul touches on this beautifully. The Jerusalem above is us. The Jerusalem below is rebellious Israel.
What do we see in Revelation 21? We don't see a remade physical universe. Almost the whole chapter is dedicated to describing the church/the Lamb's bride/New Jerusalem.
The old heavens and earth passed away in 70 A.D. That was when rebellious old covenant Israel and the fallen principalities and powers (fallen angels that rebelled with Satan) were destroyed by Christ's second coming. A spiritual coming.
The new heavens and earth has been in existence since then. That is Christ and the departed saints ruling with Him forever in heaven (new heavens) and the church on earth (new earth/new Jerusalem). It is spiritual.
My fellow Christians for 2,000 years have been looking for a future second coming that is physical. A remade universe turned into a utopia/garden of Eden. Christ said His kingdom was within us and did not come with observation (Luke 17: 20-21). It is spiritual.
One day I hope my fellow Christians will understand this. Christ already came back in 70 A.D. The second coming. Jesus said it 7 times Himself (Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8: 38-9: 1, Luke 9: 26-27, Matt 24: 34, Mark 13: 30, Luke 21: 31-32, Matt 10: 23). It is all over the NT.
For example, the new heavens and earth. It is not a physical place. It's Christ's kingdom and the church.
The new heavens and earth is mentioned in Isaiah 65 & 66 and Rev 21 & 22. We need to look at all four chapters to get a complete picture of what the new heavens and earth really is. What do we find described there?
In Isaiah 65: 1-16 we see rebellious old covenant Israel described and God saying He will call His people by a new name (Gentiles) and destroy the rebellious Jews/Israelites which He did in 70 A.D.
In verse 17 he introduces the new heavens and earth and in verse 18 he explains what it is. A Jerusalem whose is a rejoicing and her people a joy. In Galatians 4: 22-31 Paul touches on this beautifully. The Jerusalem above is us. The Jerusalem below is rebellious Israel.
What do we see in Revelation 21? We don't see a remade physical universe. Almost the whole chapter is dedicated to describing the church/the Lamb's bride/New Jerusalem.
The old heavens and earth passed away in 70 A.D. That was when rebellious old covenant Israel and the fallen principalities and powers (fallen angels that rebelled with Satan) were destroyed by Christ's second coming. A spiritual coming.
The new heavens and earth has been in existence since then. That is Christ and the departed saints ruling with Him forever in heaven (new heavens) and the church on earth (new earth/new Jerusalem). It is spiritual.
My fellow Christians for 2,000 years have been looking for a future second coming that is physical. A remade universe turned into a utopia/garden of Eden. Christ said His kingdom was within us and did not come with observation (Luke 17: 20-21). It is spiritual.
One day I hope my fellow Christians will understand this. Christ already came back in 70 A.D. The second coming. Jesus said it 7 times Himself (Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8: 38-9: 1, Luke 9: 26-27, Matt 24: 34, Mark 13: 30, Luke 21: 31-32, Matt 10: 23). It is all over the NT.
This is my view.
I believe its more important to be ready and watch your state, rather than have all the ins and outs of future events lined up. This is not to say eschatology (study of end times) is to be dismissed or isnt of great value, I respect all the mainstream views except for post-millennialism, I just cant see even a hint of it in the Bible.
I believe its more important to be ready and watch your state, rather than have all the ins and outs of future events lined up. This is not to say eschatology (study of end times) is to be dismissed or isnt of great value, I respect all the mainstream views except for post-millennialism, I just cant see even a hint of it in the Bible.