Salvation by our good works

[ForestGreenCook]

Here, you are speaking of "the faith OF Christ" (I think I posted about Galatians 2:20 in either this thread or another), but this is always (in Scripture) distinguished from "their/his/her" faith. So what we see in verses like Romans 3:22 is that distinction:

"22 Even the righteousness of God which is by [means of] faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference"

Galatians 2:16 [ylt] -

"having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through [by means of] the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in [into/unto] Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by [/in] the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh."

I agree with what you have posted.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

We need 3 righteousness's
1 Righteousness of action
2 Righteousness of the heart
3 Righteousness of faith

Many imply only righteousness of faith matters, when it is faith that washes and cleanses us
so we can have righteousness of the heart and righteousness of actions.

It all goes wrong when the heart is closed off, and God is stopped from working in someones
life and attitudes. We are not our own, He purchased us with a price and we need to submit
in all things unto Him.

Some would call this works, where as I would call it working out our faith in our lives.
And those who oppose this do so because they refuse to get right with God and claim they
do not have to, because God has forgiven them even though they continue in their sinful
behaviour.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Every words meaning is fully understood due to fully understanding the meaning of the opposite.

Light and Dark
Hot and Cold

Equal opposites.

I have not read the entire Bible yet but, I here many scriptures telling us what is good but have read zero telling us what is bad.
Yes the word evil is there but I don’t recall a scripture getting specific saying something like, It is evil to........., It does say it is good to........

So the question remains, how do we really know what good is until we can fully know what is evil or bad?
😊

What is your gauge for what is a good work?

1 No other gods
2 No idol
3 No misuse of the name of the Lord
4 Keep the sabbath
5 Honour father and mother
6 Not murder
7 Not commit adultery
8 Not steal
9 No false testimony
10 No coveting

This is good behaviour. Evil behaviour is
1 having other gods
2 having idols
3 blaspheming the name of the Lord
4 Not resting on the day of rest
5 Dishonouring ones mother and father
6 Murdering people
7 Sexual immorality
8 Stealing others property
9 Lying about others
10 coveting others property

21 See how the faithful city has become a harlot! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her- but now murderers!
22 Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.
23 Your rulers are rebels, companions of thieves; they all love bribes and chase after gifts. They do not defend the cause of the fatherless; the widow's case does not come before them.
Isaiah 1:21-23

 

[TM19782017]

1 No other gods
2 No idol
3 No misuse of the name of the Lord
4 Keep the sabbath
5 Honour father and mother
6 Not murder
7 Not commit adultery
8 Not steal
9 No false testimony
10 No coveting

This is good behaviour. Evil behaviour is
1 having other gods
2 having idols
3 blaspheming the name of the Lord
4 Not resting on the day of rest
5 Dishonouring ones mother and father
6 Murdering people
7 Sexual immorality
8 Stealing others property
9 Lying about others
10 coveting others property

21 See how the faithful city has become a harlot! She once was full of justice; righteousness used to dwell in her- but now murderers!
22 Your silver has become dross, your choice wine is diluted with water.
23 Your rulers are rebels, companions of thieves; they all love bribes and chase after gifts. They do not defend the cause of the fatherless; the widow's case does not come before them.
Isaiah 1:21-23

Quote the scripture word for word that says, It is EVIL to do ...............

The commandments say to obey them.
They don’t define the word bad or evil.....We individually define bad and evil.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Quote the scripture word for word that says, It is EVIL to do ...............

The commandments say to obey them.
They don’t define the word bad or evil.....We individually define bad and evil.

This is a linguistic question you are putting.
It is evil to murder.
So we have the positive affirmation of what it means to do good, and not do evil.
So by saying do not murder, it is the same as saying do not do evil murder.
There is not a good murder, murder by itself means killing someone without just cause.

So if the language fulfills defining evil behaviour and says do not do it, it fulfills the criteria
of saying it is evil to do.

Let us take child sacrifice.

Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.
lev 18:21

I will set my face against that man and I will cut him off from his people; for by giving his children to Molech, he has defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name.
lev 20:3

You must not worship the LORD your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the LORD hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
Deuteronomy 12:31

The Lord describes things He loves and hates in different ways and with differing emphases.
Put simply, you have to get to know Him to understand how and why He balances ways that
He does. The key is knowing Him and not having lists of good and bad behaviours.

 

[mailmandan]

We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Plain and simple.

 

[Grandpa]

When we are obedient to God's commandments, we are walking in the Spirit and have fellowship with God. When we are actively walking in sin, we do not lose our eternal salvation, but we do lose our fellowship with him until we repent and start walking in the Spirit again. God does not fellowship with sin, that is the reason he turned his back on Jesus for those 3 hours when Jesus was bearing the sin's of God's elect and why Jesus said "my God, my God, why has though forsaken me." That is ,also, why we, as born again children, have many deliverance's (salvation's) here in this world when we repent.

God NEVER turned His Back on Christ.

The Lord Jesus saying those words "My God My God why hast thou forsaken me?" was showing the Love of God and How He would NEVER turn His Back on us but would always Love us even to the point of taking our punishment upon Himself.

We are NEVER obedient to Gods Commandments by deciding to be sinless. We are only obedient to Gods Commandments when we quit trying and abide in Christ instead.

So you have to take your sinful self to Christ and trust in His Holiness and His Sinlessness being imputed to you in order to have any "fellowship" with God. You won't ever have any of that on your own. Neither Holiness, Sinlessness or fellowship.

 

[Blik]

Nice, Bilk is like saying "You have to clean yourself first, before you can take a bath"

I think you have the cart before the horse. You have to be willing to give your sins to Christ for cleaning.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

God NEVER turned His Back on Christ.

The Lord Jesus saying those words "My God My God why hast thou forsaken me?" was showing the Love of God and How He would NEVER turn His Back on us but would always Love us even to the point of taking our punishment upon Himself.

We are NEVER obedient to Gods Commandments by deciding to be sinless. We are only obedient to Gods Commandments when we quit trying and abide in Christ instead.

So you have to take your sinful self to Christ and trust in His Holiness and His Sinlessness being imputed to you in order to have any "fellowship" with God. You won't ever have any of that on your own. Neither Holiness, Sinlessness or fellowship.

The only way that a person can have fellowship with God is if he has been born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, while in that state of fellowship, he can lose that fellowship when he yields his body to the lust of the things in the world until he repents of his disobedience.

 

[Guojing]

The scriptures teach, that we are eternally saved by God's grace, without the help of man, and that salvation is secured by Christ on the cross, however, after we are saved eternally we still carry the baggage of our sinful nature as Paul indicates of our battle within us of the flesh against the Spirit. God will not fellowship with sin, is why we lose our fellowship with him until we repent and are walking in the Spirit. That is why God turned his back on Jesus on the cross the three hours that he was carrying the sins of God's elect and Jesus said, "my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me," because God will not fellowship with sin.

Do you believe that our spirit can no longer be tainted with sin, after we are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit?

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 1:13

 

[Grandpa]

The only way that a person can have fellowship with God is if he has been born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, while in that state of fellowship, he can lose that fellowship when he yields his body to the lust of the things in the world until he repents of his disobedience.

A person loses fellowship only when they believe they have lost fellowship.

Romans 5:8-11
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

 

[obedienttogod]

If we are not careful, and believe that all salvation scriptures are referring to eternal salvation, the scriptures will tend to lead us to believe in eternal salvation is by the works of man and is dependent upon man's works as a qualification. I believe that there are more reference to a deliverance we receive here on earth than there is that have reference to eternal salvation.

I only need to be delivered ONCE, by Yahweh the Father!!
His Grace He displayed through Yeshua upon the Cross, ensured my deliverance was sufficient enough the first time I acknowledge I was a lost sinner doomed and accepted Him as Lord and Savior.
If I then continued to sin even worse than before and lived life no longer including God, it's clear I actually was never saved and delivered to begin with.

The fact that I do sin as a human being falling short of God's goal for me, does not mean I still require His deliverance. It means, I am not completely finished in my transformation to be like Him. But as I remain in His WORD, remain striving to become more like Him, I am aware of my mistakes because I am gaging my own SALVATION based upon His purity and Example He set for me.

In other words, I am not confessing my new sins because of lack of fellowship with God. I am confessing my sins because I choose to grow CLOSER to Him. Even when I was drinking, doing drugs, being involved in gang and biker activity, chasing every woman I could see, getting paid to do bad things to people, etc....... GOD NEVER STOPPED FELLOWSHIPPING WITH ME...I stopped fellowshipping with God. God NEVER LEFT ME, I put God on the side burner, God NEVER FORSAKENED ME, I forsakened God, God NEVER STEPPED AWAY from Me, I chose to ignore God. IN FACT, God was with me the ENTIRE TIME I was not with Him!! HE literally was there waiting for me to get my head out of my rectum. And it is THAT VERY KNOWLEDGE THAT GOD WAS WITH ME THE ENTIRE TIME KNOCKING AT MY FRONT DOOR that TODAY keeps me running as fast as I can to my FINISH RACE in HIM!!

 

[obedienttogod]

^...finish my race in Him!!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Do you believe that our spirit can no longer be tainted with sin, after we are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit?

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 1:13

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,having already been born of the Holy Spirit, is being stamped as a down payment (earnest of our inheretance ) of the promise of eternal life. The verse says "after ye believed" The natural man cannot believe spiritual things that he cannot discern. (1 Cor 2:14). Until he has been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (Eph 2).

 

[Guojing]

Being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,having already been born of the Holy Spirit, is being stamped as a down payment (earnest of our inheretance ) of the promise of eternal life. The verse says "after ye believed" The natural man cannot believe spiritual things that he cannot discern. (1 Cor 2:14). Until he has been regenerated and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. (Eph 2).

If you believe we have been sealed, why do you still believe that a believer, an elect, can "lose fellowship with God" whenever he sin and have not repented yet?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Do you believe that our spirit can no longer be tainted with sin, after we are saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit?

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise. Ephesians 1:13

We have not been tainted with sin, as far as eternal life is concerned sense Christ paid for those sins on the cross for all of those that he died for, which was not for all mankind, only those that the Father gave him (John 6), however we do carry the baggage of our sinful nature with us until we are changed in the twinkling of the eye, when Christ comes back for us.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

If you believe we have been sealed, why do you still believe that a believer, an elect, can "lose fellowship with God" whenever he sin and have not repented yet?

Because Jesus finished his purpose of going to the cross, which was to be a sacrifice to God for the sins of those that God gave him. his sacrifice was an offering to God for God's acceptance and not a sacrifice to man for man's acceptance. Christ paid for every sin of those he died for and none of them will keep those he died for from going to heaven.

 

[Guojing]

his sacrifice was an offering to God for God's acceptance and not a sacrifice to man for man's acceptance.

Aren't we discussing fellowship with God here? So if you believe that God accepts us because of what Jesus has done, why is there a lost fellowship with God when we sin after we are saved?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I only need to be delivered ONCE, by Yahweh the Father!!
His Grace He displayed through Yeshua upon the Cross, ensured my deliverance was sufficient enough the first time I acknowledge I was a lost sinner doomed and accepted Him as Lord and Savior.
If I then continued to sin even worse than before and lived life no longer including God, it's clear I actually was never saved and delivered to begin with.

The fact that I do sin as a human being falling short of God's goal for me, does not mean I still require His deliverance. It means, I am not completely finished in my transformation to be like Him. But as I remain in His WORD, remain striving to become more like Him, I am aware of my mistakes because I am gaging my own SALVATION based upon His purity and Example He set for me.

In other words, I am not confessing my new sins because of lack of fellowship with God. I am confessing my sins because I choose to grow CLOSER to Him. Even when I was drinking, doing drugs, being involved in gang and biker activity, chasing every woman I could see, getting paid to do bad things to people, etc....... GOD NEVER STOPPED FELLOWSHIPPING WITH ME...I stopped fellowshipping with God. God NEVER LEFT ME, I put God on the side burner, God NEVER FORSAKENED ME, I forsakened God, God NEVER STEPPED AWAY from Me, I chose to ignore God. IN FACT, God was with me the ENTIRE TIME I was not with Him!! HE literally was there waiting for me to get my head out of my rectum. And it is THAT VERY KNOWLEDGE THAT GOD WAS WITH ME THE ENTIRE TIME KNOCKING AT MY FRONT DOOR that TODAY keeps me running as fast as I can to my FINISH RACE in HIM!!

You may be so confused that it is hopeless to try to explain anything to you, but I must try. When you have an illness, do you pray to God that he will heal you? When God answers your prayer, are you not delivered from that deliverance? It works the same way when God delivers you from a sin when you call on him for forgiveness. God hates sin and will not fellowship with sin.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Aren't we discussing fellowship with God here? So if you believe that God accepts us because of what Jesus has done, why is there a lost fellowship with God when we sin after we are saved?

Because when we are actively participating in sin God will not fellowship with sin. God hates sin and forsaken Jesus those three hours that he was burdened with the sins of his elect.