Not By Works

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stonesoffire said:
I just now saw this post.

Everything for man is the work of God. I explained this in my understanding on another thread about justification.
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Sorry a little confused, my point around "observe" is that James is making the point that our good works justify us before men, it is the men around us that need to see, observe, .....kinda like "seeing is believing".

That is why Abraham was called a "friend of God" by others because they saw his works.
 
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UnderGrace said:
Sorry a little confused, my point around "observe" is that James is making the point that our good works justify us before men, it is the men around us that need to see, observe, .....kinda like "seeing is believing".

That is why Abraham was called a "friend of God" by others because they saw his works.
Click to expand...

Am not sure that I agree with this. Does it matter if men observe or God? Men cannot see the heart of another unless knowledge/ wisdom, or discernment is working, and men can misunderstand actions. Not so with God.

We do have the ministry of reconciliation though, so will look further at the Word in scriptures.

And I don't think that Abraham was called the friend of Godby men, but called this by God. I say this because Holy Spirit said to me just recently as I was thinking about talking with the Lord throughout my whole day. That this is what being a friend of God means,

Remember that the scriptures were penned by men hearing through Holy Spirit.
 
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UnderGrace said:
Read the passage if you like, it is pretty clear.

This is the entire thesis of James, because he was writing to the Jews who did not understand the role of works.
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james is a book with controversy. luther wasnt a fan.

my notes: the book doesnt mention the Holy Spirit even once. there is not much about grace. i dont know when it was written but its adressed to the tribes of israel, it does mention Jesus but i believe its written early on in church history , maybe before st. paul was even called?

do we have any evidence to the timing of when james was written? some bibles have the dates when the books were written in the prefare.
 
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Melach said:
james is a book with controversy. luther wasnt a fan.

my notes: the book doesnt mention the Holy Spirit even once. there is not much about grace. i dont know when it was written but its adressed to the tribes of israel, it does mention Jesus but i believe its written early on in church history , maybe before st. paul was even called?

do we have any evidence to the timing of when james was written? some bibles have the dates when the books were written in the prefare.
Click to expand...

It is only a controversy when people do not read it in its entirety and do not see the Jewish cultural-historical context of the letters.

To whom is the author speaking...that is always the starting point.

The book is about practical action ...with a very strong moral tone, however it is not a call for salvation, they were saved.
 
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FollowHisSteps said:
The whole point of salvation is to empower the people of God to walk righteously, and shine like a light on a hill about victory and love by doing good works.
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Wrong. The whole point of salvation is to save wretched sinners who have no hope of saving themselves. Good works have nothing to do with the debt paid by Christ. In fact, when salvation is the issue, our best works are filthy rags to God.

I've noticed with Judaizers/ Pharisees such as yourself and a few others on this thread, "gift" doesn't actually mean gift, "free" doesn't really mean free, and all" doesn't truly mean all

Your kind has to change the definition of words to make them fit your works-for-salvation scam.
 
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Your kind has to change the definition of words to make them fit your works-for-salvation scam.[/QUOTE]

I agree with everything except the word scam. I think 'Dogma' would be more accurate.
 
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stonesoffire said:
Am not sure that I agree with this. Does it matter if men observe or God? Men cannot see the heart of another unless knowledge/ wisdom, or discernment is working, and men can misunderstand actions. Not so with God.

We do have the ministry of reconciliation though, so will look further at the Word in scriptures.

And I don't think that Abraham was called the friend of Godby men, but called this by God. I say this because Holy Spirit said to me just recently as I was thinking about talking with the Lord throughout my whole day. That this is what being a friend of God means,

Remember that the scriptures were penned by men hearing through Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
I think that’s the point

God does not have to see works. He knows the heart. If he sees a person have true faith he will save them. The works just prove god was correct in his action of saving someone. Not because god need proof. But the person needs proof
 
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UnderGrace said:
Sorry a little confused, my point around "observe" is that James is making the point that our good works justify us before men, it is the men around us that need to see, observe, .....kinda like "seeing is believing".

That is why Abraham was called a "friend of God" by others because they saw his works.
Click to expand...

Exactly....many if not most flat read right over or sweep under the table....SHOW ME YOUR FAITH <---the benefit of works is for MAN NOT GOD!!
 
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