A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES

[VCO]

Here is the Rock with the Inscription "Synagogue of the Hebrews" found face down on the Lechaion Way:

View attachment 197013

It would look like just another piece of RUBBLE laying on the ROAD.

So what do you disagree with this Inscription for ? ? ?

No one knew for sure where the Synagogue of the Hebrews was located in CORINTH, this stone laying face down on the Lechaien Way. Yes it was Inscribed between 2nd-3rd Century AD. But I explained that JEWS traditionally KEPT their Synagogues in the same location, and when it was time to rebuild the Synagogue, they would tear the old one down to the foundation, and REBUILD IT ON TOP OF THE ORIGINAL FOUNDATION. If it is the Inscription that You disagree with, sure some of the letters are missing, but there is ENOUGH to make out what it says. It layed face down right where it had fallen during the major EARTHQUAKE that killed approximately 45,000 in 856 AD.

So what do you see in that, you object to ? ? ?

 

[UnderGrace]

You've put the most radical spin on "may". It does not necessarily mean "in the wildest dream" (I wonder where you got that idea).

In English, the word "may" has several applications. It does indicate a subjective possibility as you note, but it also indicates capacity or permissive authority.

"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he [would have the ability to] interpret." (capacity)
"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he [would possibly] interpret." (possibility)
"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he [would be permitted to] interpret." (permission)

I submit that the first option makes the most sense in that verse. The "strictest rule" you describe would then be more of an empowering guideline: "Here's what to do" rather than "You must do this".

"may".........its mood is subjunctive (which expresses probability or possibility).

The word “interpret” means translate.

 

[VCO]

I thought old VCO was coming around we were agreeing on a few other things. But this is his sacred cow. He is not willing to even consider the point. He was arrogant threatening and trying to cut me off. But I continued to try and show my POV. Very immature to block someone because you can't discuss with them. As soon as I proved he was wrong he blocked me. That says a lot about character IMO.

Because VCO has a haughty,arrogant and unteachable spirit. He will not consider he is wrong on this subject or any other. This is why he is saying people are yelling at him. He is stubborn. He believes he is right. He's dogmatic. Even though Scripture is showing him he's wrong about several things he refuses to see it. Not even God can change a person that is willfully blind. So I leave him to it.

I told you in the BEGINNING, I DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE YOU. Now your true colors come out, how sad. I was NEVER HERE to learn something from your side of the FENCE. I have been Debating this subject for almost 40 years, it is not that I am MAD, bu quite the opposite. Shear Boredom with the ONGOING line of questions and typical responses is closer to the REALITY. I gave the absolute TRUTH, the way most non-charismatic Churches teach it, and nothing more. You are free to disagree with it, and I am free to ignore what the Holy Spirit has convinced me is a counterfeit. You accuse me of arrogance, but that is how much I am convinced that the HOLY SPIRIT IN ME, is my teacher. You proved nothing, I told you I am convinced that I have heard what Pentecostals and Charismatics, were taught to say, years ago. And there is nothing new under the sun, and I have not HEARD a new argument in 20 years. So you were only trying to sneak in your twisted theology, I find that to be a cult-like trick. As you can see, I have not put you on IGNORE LIST, because you have danced around being DIVISIVE. However, You have made my IGNORE LIST, with that post.
You sure you were not looking in a mirror ? ? ?


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

 

[Dino246]

"Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning...."

You'd think that the person who started the divisive discussion should be warned.

 

[RickyZ]

If you were praying in tongues, How did you KNOW what was said?

Now. I can believe you saw a vision and everything else about this story. But speaking on tongues? I see no proof. Nor do I see any REASON. (For all I know you made this up. As many people have) But I will nto judge you, Because again I DO NOT KNOW

I know MANY MANY people who had this same type of experience. And they were praying to God in English and God spoke to them back in English. And they KNOW the spirit was talking to them AND GOD at the same time

So are their experiences any less because they did not speak in tongues?

I don't know the exact words I'm saying, but I know in my mind what the subject is.

Made it up. Yep. Tell ya what, if I'm ever called into jury duty, you'll tell the judge I'm unreliable and get me off duty?

What a laugh.

You remind me of the town Jesus couldn't heal in because He couldn't prove that He was in-network.

 

[RickyZ]

That’s true, but questioning their argument is not personal. Some people just take it that way.

We ARE a world of the chronically offended!

 

[RickyZ]

Why couldn't he understand his own tongues?

1 Corinthians 14:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

As for the importance of tongues in prayer, we have the Spirit of God giving our spirit the right words to pray to the Father or even to minister to another. In essence one would be praying the perfect will of God. One can even intercede on other's behalf as the Lord ministers life into situations.

A short story: As I was being driven by my family member, I looked over to another car and immediately I saw in my mind that they got into an accident. I felt concern for the person and simply looked at the car and thinking of the person inside, started praying in tongues. Later in fellowship with the Lord I asked if we (because He guides the gift of tongues) interceded on their behalf so they wouldn't get in an accident. He confirmed that was the case. Praise God for His divine intervention.

I know this may sound extreme (to some), but if the Lord is the one guiding you to speak, cannot He too bring a message through the tongues? Hence the purpose of the gift of interpretation, to use the gift corporately for the edification of the Church (putting it on par with prophecy, 1 Cor 14:5).

You don't always know what you're saying, sometimes it is guarded and isn't meant for you to know. However, you can get a glimpse. There are times where someone can speak in tongues and it will be like interpreters each get a bit of the picture, but together there is a whole message. It ties in. The Body and its members working together in unison.

Thank you . I was going to put up that verse. But lemmee guess what I'm going to find in the next post -

 

[RickyZ]

What Paul really is saying in the quoted passage is the speaker pray that he may interpret. The word may is a "subjective possibility" meaning it is in the wildest dream, that is why speaking in an unknown tongue is subject to a strictest rule. If no one translate the foreign language, it is best to keep in silence.

1 Corinthians 14 put prophesy into pedestal over speaking in tongues. Here Paul distinguished the following manner about speaking in an unknown tongues:

1. The speaker is not speaking to man but to God. For the receiver/listener doesn't know the language being spoken. It remains mystery or beyond comprehension to the listener/ receiver.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

2. The speaker is said to edifies himself but we have to remember that this Epistle of Paul is not to an individual but rather to a corporeal, a group, or a church specifically to the believers at Corinth. Thus the church must be edified to something other than speaking in an unknown tongue. A better way to that is to prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

3. Hence, Paul has an undecided desire that Corinthians to speak with tongues for such speaking is unprofitable to the receiver/hearer.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

4. Unless the speaker interpret, that's taking a possibility, the church may receive edifying. Again if no one is able to interpret/translate, the speaker is only speaking into the air.

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

The gift of tongue in the early church is perhaps categorized as a sign-gift. A Sign for unbelieving and a Gift to believers but with the completion of the scripture of truth, the gospel message can be brought out, disseminated without the need of some miraculous act. The Bible is enough to be use in evangelism and to make disciples. The Bible is able to build us up, enabling us to grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3: 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

...................And here it is!

 

[RickyZ]

 

[VCO]

If it has it has, it has yet to be verified.

I want to thank you for your support on this thread. I try be accommodating with kaylagrl by agreeing to temporary discuss this subject with her. However it ends up in the typical hating me, because I do not see their BRAND of tongues as Legitimate. I am totally convinced that the Holy Spirit guided me in that STUDY. So I must boldly defend it, but sooner or later, almost every one of them hurls rocks. {See my last post to her.}

I wonder what part of: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, do they not understand. There is almost NONE among Charismatics or Pentecostals, can accept that I do believe that the Modern Day tongues is a counterfeit.

 

[kaylagrl]

I told you in the BEGINNING, I DO NOT WANT TO DEBATE YOU.

This is a discussion site!! Debate is what is done here!! If you don't like it why are you here?!

Now your true colors come out, how sad. I was NEVER HERE to learn something from your side of the FENCE.

That's for sure. But that doesn't bother me. Be blind, I don't care. But you are rude. You have tried to cut me off and shut me down this entire thread. We came round to a moment of agreement and then you're back to shutting me down when I gave proof that tongues wasn't just for unbelieving Jews.


I have been Debating this subject for almost 40 years, it is not that I am MAD,

Really?! This is you not being mad?! Land sake!

bu quite the opposite. Shear Boredom with the ONGOING line of questions and typical responses is closer to the REALITY.


Right and the other side has heard the same argument again and again and again...



I gave the absolute TRUTH, the way most non-charismatic Churches teach it, and nothing more.


You gave the truth the way you see it. It's not absolute truth I disproved it with Scripture.


You are free to disagree with it, and I am free to ignore what the Holy Spirit has convinced me is a counterfeit.


Has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit, it's your own dogmatic beliefs. To say every time someone speaks in tongues it's counterfeit is your opinion only.




You accuse me of arrogance, but that is how much I am convinced that the HOLY SPIRIT IN ME, is my teacher.


And we say the same. I have seen things that have convinced me that tongues is real according to the Word. Is the Holy Spirit more with you than anyone else here? If you think so you have some serious issues.



You proved nothing


No, I proved you wrong with Scripture. You're ignoring it doesn't change that fact.


I told you I am convinced that I have heard what Pentecostals and Charismatics, were taught to say, years ago.


Baloney!! I've been in the Pentecostal church most of my life and traveled in hundreds of churches, nonsense.



So you were only trying to sneak in your twisted theology,


A lie,pure and simple.




I find that to be a cult-like trick.


I find it cult like when someone believes the Holy Spirit speaks to them and no one else.




As you can see, I have not put you on IGNORE LIST


Ignore me or don't. We'll share the same heaven so you'll get use to it.





because you have danced around being DIVISIVE.

Did someone put you in charge when no one was looking? No, I don't think so. Only one divisive here is you.



However, You have made my IGNORE LIST, with that post.

If you can't handle debate you shouldn't be here. Immature to block people because you can't handle an adult discussion.


Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.

 

[kaylagrl]

I want to thank you for your support on this thread. I try be accommodating with kaylagrl by agreeing to temporary discuss this subject with her. However it ends up in the typical hating me, because I do not see their BRAND of tongues as Legitimate. I am totally convinced that the Holy Spirit guided me in that STUDY. So I must boldly defend it, but sooner or later, almost every one of them hurls rocks. {See my last post to her.}

I wonder what part of: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, do they not understand. There is almost NONE among Charismatics or Pentecostals, can accept that I do believe that the Modern Day tongues is a counterfeit.

Apparently VCO can't accept that Pentecostals don't care what he thinks. He thinks the Holy Spirit guides him and no one else. As I said, arrogant.

 

[BenFTW]

What Paul really is saying in the quoted passage is the speaker pray that he may interpret. The word may is a "subjective possibility" meaning it is in the wildest dream, that is why speaking in an unknown tongue is subject to a strictest rule. If no one translate the foreign language, it is best to keep in silence.

1 Corinthians 14 put prophesy into pedestal over speaking in tongues. Here Paul distinguished the following manner about speaking in an unknown tongues:

1. The speaker is not speaking to man but to God. For the receiver/listener doesn't know the language being spoken. It remains mystery or beyond comprehension to the listener/ receiver.

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

2. The speaker is said to edifies himself but we have to remember that this Epistle of Paul is not to an individual but rather to a corporeal, a group, or a church specifically to the believers at Corinth. Thus the church must be edified to something other than speaking in an unknown tongue. A better way to that is to prophesy.

1 Corinthians 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

3. Hence, Paul has an undecided desire that Corinthians to speak with tongues for such speaking is unprofitable to the receiver/hearer.

1 Corinthians 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

4. Unless the speaker interpret, that's taking a possibility, the church may receive edifying. Again if no one is able to interpret/translate, the speaker is only speaking into the air.

1 Corinthians 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

The gift of tongue in the early church is perhaps categorized as a sign-gift. A Sign for unbelieving and a Gift to believers but with the completion of the scripture of truth, the gospel message can be brought out, disseminated without the need of some miraculous act. The Bible is enough to be use in evangelism and to make disciples. The Bible is able to build us up, enabling us to grow in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 3: 15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

1 Corinthians 14:13-17 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

The speaker is not "only speaking into the air" as you have said, as if his use of the gift is useless. "Thou verily givest thanks well" clearly shows that the tongues are not just useless, falling to the ground, and of no benefit. Your spirit is still praying, and God hears our prayers. Yes our understanding is unfruitful, but do not think that nothing is occurring or that your words are just "only speaking into the air." It is your spirit by the leading of the Holy Spirit praying to the Father. How could they possibly be worthless when it is the Lord supplying your spirit with the words to speak?

Context is about edifying others, but that doesn't mean they aren't edified in some way outside of their understanding (because you are praying to God, and He hears our prayers). However, in terms of being edified emotionally, intellectually, or what have you, yes interpretation permits that.

As for the Bible being enough to use in evangelism, you forget that signs and wonders always accompanied the preaching of the Gospel. Miracles, and gifts of healing are a way of tangibly revealing the love of God to a person, through the name of Jesus. The Lord is glorified, they are in the midst of a paradigm shift, as their worldview crumbles and they realize that God indeed does exist and based upon His standards of righteousness do they stand condemned in need of Christ. At this revelation does the opportunity of repentance present itself. Christ came to save the world, not condemn it.

 

[fredoheaven]

You've put the most radical spin on "may". It does not necessarily mean "in the wildest dream" (I wonder where you got that idea).

In English, the word "may" has several applications. It does indicate a subjective possibility as you note, but it also indicates capacity or permissive authority.

"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he [would have the ability to] interpret." (capacity)
"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he [would possibly] interpret." (possibility)
"Therefore let one who speaks in a tongue pray that he [would be permitted to] interpret." (permission)

I submit that the first option makes the most sense in that verse. The "strictest rule" you describe would then be more of an empowering guideline: "Here's what to do" rather than "You must do this".

My proposal of subjective possibility is correct and sensible as context shows. There would be no more need of an interpreter, there would be no more edifying of the body of Christ in the case where the first option is raise. Yap, to Paul it is a commandment rather suggestion.

1 Corinthians 14:37 . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[fredoheaven]

1 Corinthians 14:13-17 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

The speaker is not "only speaking into the air" as you have said, as if his use of the gift is useless. "Thou verily givest thanks well" clearly shows that the tongues are not just useless, falling to the ground, and of no benefit. Your spirit is still praying, and God hears our prayers. Yes our understanding is unfruitful, but do not think that nothing is occurring or that your words are just "only speaking into the air." It is your spirit by the leading of the Holy Spirit praying to the Father. How could they possibly be worthless when it is the Lord supplying your spirit with the words to speak?

Paul would have to answer you. He says it would be unfruitful, not your own wording of useless. Giving the impression as worthless. Not that in the Bible. If none is able to interpret then the speaker has to keep in silence. This what meant during the apostolic times.

 

[fredoheaven]

1 Corinthians 14:13-17 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.



Context is about edifying others, but that doesn't mean they aren't edified in some way outside of their understanding (because you are praying to God, and He hears our prayers). However, in terms of being edified emotionally, intellectually, or what have you, yes interpretation permits that.

Paul says the speaker edified himself yet you are agreeing that context is about edifying others. Paul would rather speak five words easy to be understood that the church be edified.

 

[fredoheaven]

1 Corinthians 14:13-17 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.



As for the Bible being enough to use in evangelism, you forget that signs and wonders always accompanied the preaching of the Gospel. Miracles, and gifts of healing are a way of tangibly revealing the love of God to a person, through the name of Jesus. The Lord is glorified, they are in the midst of a paradigm shift, as their worldview crumbles and they realize that God indeed does exist and based upon His standards of righteousness do they stand condemned in need of Christ. At this revelation does the opportunity of repentance present itself. Christ came to save the world, not condemn it.

Now you are going to what is not a Bible word. You should go to Mark 16, not longer your favorite, I guess because you forget that the Bible does not say sign and wonders accompanied the preaching of the Gospel, perhaps you have to read and understand that in the language of KJV that you and I use says it follows... sounds mystery?

 

[VCO]

I want to thank you for your support on this thread. I try be accommodating with kaylagrl by agreeing to temporary discuss this subject with her. However it ends up in the typical hating me, because I do not see their BRAND of tongues as Legitimate. I am totally convinced that the Holy Spirit guided me in that STUDY. So I must boldly defend it, but sooner or later, almost every one of them hurls rocks. {See my last post to her.}

I wonder what part of: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, do they not understand. There is almost NONE among Charismatics or Pentecostals, can accept that I do believe that the Modern Day tongues is a counterfeit.

1 Corinthians 14:13-17 King James Version (KJV)
13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.

The speaker is not "only speaking into the air" as you have said, as if his use of the gift is useless. "Thou verily givest thanks well" clearly shows that the tongues are not just useless, falling to the ground, and of no benefit. Your spirit is still praying, and God hears our prayers. Yes our understanding is unfruitful, but do not think that nothing is occurring or that your words are just "only speaking into the air." It is your spirit by the leading of the Holy Spirit praying to the Father. How could they possibly be worthless when it is the Lord supplying your spirit with the words to speak?

Context is about edifying others, but that doesn't mean they aren't edified in some way outside of their understanding (because you are praying to God, and He hears our prayers). However, in terms of being edified emotionally, intellectually, or what have you, yes interpretation permits that.

As for the Bible being enough to use in evangelism, you forget that signs and wonders always accompanied the preaching of the Gospel. Miracles, and gifts of healing are a way of tangibly revealing the love of God to a person, through the name of Jesus. The Lord is glorified, they are in the midst of a paradigm shift, as their worldview crumbles and they realize that God indeed does exist and based upon His standards of righteousness do they stand condemned in need of Christ. At this revelation does the opportunity of repentance present itself. Christ came to save the world, not condemn it.

You forgot ONE tiny little word that implies there is NO SPEAKER.

14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.


As for gifts of healing, it appears they ceased to, if you will notice that PAUL apparently could no longer HEAL Timothy, by 65 AD. In my opinion the Miracle gifts were APOSTOLIC Gifts Only. Instead of healing him, he could only give Timothy a household remedy. Yes I believe GOD can heal in Answer to PRAYER. However He does not give the POWER directly to People who seem to WIELD it by their whim, as do many TV PREACHERS claim, as they practice what can be called a religious con-game.


1 Timothy 5:23 (GWT)
23 Stop drinking only water. Instead, drink a little wine for your stomach because you are frequently sick.


As for your ASSUMPTION, that the Modern Day tongues can only come from the LORD, better read my Segment 3 page 3 of my study. https://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/a-non-charismatic-understanding-of-tongues.184020/

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't know the exact words I'm saying, but I know in my mind what the subject is.

Made it up. Yep. Tell ya what, if I'm ever called into jury duty, you'll tell the judge I'm unreliable and get me off duty?

What a laugh.

You remind me of the town Jesus couldn't heal in because He couldn't prove that He was in-network.

If you do not know the exact words, then you have no verification it is from The spirit. Thus like I have been saying, You have no way to test the spirit. And this fact alone makes it questionable.

A judge? lol. You take this story to the judge, I will take the same story (minus the “Unknown language” aspect) and Share the vision and what appears to be a miracle about a vision, Which later came true, And lets see how many people come to FAITH by the VISION (unseen) that appeared to be miraculous. And the same vision with some sign (seen) o someone speaking in a language he could not even understand, which can not even be verified. (Remembering the ONLY difference between the two stories was the “Unknown language) aspect.

Again, Your whole thing Sounded believable. All until the “Unknown language” part. Which I honestly do not see why that was even needed, All throughout the bible from Adam until revelation people saw visions like you shared about other people. And those visions ended up doing as you said. So we have examples of this inspired by God,

Plus, I do not even know you. Let alone if you even have the spirit of Christ, You have yet to share why you think you will be in heaven, (as apposed to the other option) or at least I have not heard it.

And remember, Another member gave an example of a tongues experience and I believed her.

So if you think I am mocking tongues, you can just stop right there, with her as my witness.

 

[UnderGrace]

I want to thank you for your support on this thread. I try be accommodating with kaylagrl by agreeing to temporary discuss this subject with her. However it ends up in the typical hating me, because I do not see their BRAND of tongues as Legitimate. I am totally convinced that the Holy Spirit guided me in that STUDY. So I must boldly defend it, but sooner or later, almost every one of them hurls rocks. {See my last post to her.}

I wonder what part of: I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE ON THIS SUBJECT, do they not understand. There is almost NONE among Charismatics or Pentecostals, can accept that I do believe that the Modern Day tongues is a counterfeit.

Having had the experience, it is a psychological-emotional phenomena, dissociative hyper-arousal state, there really is no debate, modern day glossolalia is not a language, linguistics has demonstrated this in the research.

If the translators had translated glossa (γλῶσσα, ης, ἡ) as "language" there would be no debate.