What are the essential beliefs needed for salvation?

[metanoia]

If it is true, and I believe that it is, that Jesus paid the penalty for all of the sins of those he died for, would it not be a fact that those sins are washed as white as snow, and God looks upon you as Holy and without blame, whether you trusted that or not?

Romans 2:12 "For there is NO partiality with God." He did not choose ahead of time who would go to heaven or hell. Each of us choose our own destiny. When people hypocritically and selfishly seek their own justification, the results are wrath (2 Thess. 1:8)--the consistent, purposeful response of God to unrighteousness.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Romans 2:12 "For there is NO partiality with God." He did not choose ahead of time who would go to heaven or hell. Each of us choose our own destiny. When people hypocritically and selfishly seek their own justification, the results are wrath (2 Thess. 1:8)--the consistent, purposeful response of God to unrighteousness.

Here is an interesting idea. People are seeing their own justification by walking in Gods ways.
And the results of this are judgement.

To suggest this one has to not read scripture or know Christ. Jesus criticised the teachers of the law
for

2 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matthew 23:2-3

Their failure was in not doing what they preached, hypocrisy.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Matt 23:25

6 "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:6-10

Those who believe repentance is just changing your mind with no life expression
are merely thought christians, with no reality.

Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:10

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
4 .... who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1+4

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6:9-11

 

[ForestGreenCook]

We do not take an isolated verse and build a doctrine from that. So first you should look and all the verses which clearly and unequivocally state that Christ died for the sins of the whole world. Then when we take John 6:39 (not 38) within that context as well as the context of that chapter, we see what Christ meant. The verses will be shown in logical sequence (different from the narrative).

SALVATION IS FOR ALL ["A MAN" = ANY MAN, "THE WORLD" = ALL HUMANITY]
For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. (v 33) This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. (vv 50,51)

THE FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT DRAW ALL MEN TO CHRIST
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. (v 44) [NOTE: ONLY THE FATHER MENTIONED HERE]

FAITH IN CHRIST NECESSARY TO RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. (vv 28,29) [NOTE: FAITH IS NOT A WORK BUT THAT WAS THE APPROPRIATE RESPONSE. FAITH IS GENERATED BY THE GOSPEL]
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (v 40)
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. (v 54)

THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE ARE NOT GIVEN TO CHRIST BY THE FATHER
But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. (v 36) But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. (vv 64,65)

THE ETERNAL SECURITY OF THE BELIEVER IS GUARANTEED
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. (v 37) And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (v 39) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. (v 47)

Most of God's regenerated children believe that God's elect are those that God, by his foreknowledge, saw who would seek to believe in spiritual things. Psalms 53:2-3 tells us right the opposite, That God, by his foreknowledge, saw that no one would seek him, no one would good, no, not one. God takes us , as spiritually dead sinners and, by his grace, without the help of man, transforms us and gives us spiritual life (Eph 2). Only then can we believe in spiritual things (unlike the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14). The world mentioned in the scriptures is the world of believers, not the world of all mankind. That is why John 6:38 harmonizes with the other scriptures. All scriptures must harmonize or you are not understanding the doctrine that Jesus taught.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 2:12 "For there is NO partiality with God." He did not choose ahead of time who would go to heaven or hell. Each of us choose our own destiny. When people hypocritically and selfishly seek their own justification, the results are wrath (2 Thess. 1:8)--the consistent, purposeful response of God to unrighteousness.

We are all born into this world depraved and full of wrath even as others who have not been regenerated to a spiritual life, Eph 2. Yes, God will take vengeance on all of those that he has not regenerated from being dead spiritually to everlasting punishment. Eph 2 explains that man has no choice in him being regenerated because he was spiritually dead when God gave him spiritual life in the new birth.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Here is an interesting idea. People are seeing their own justification by walking in Gods ways.
And the results of this are judgement.

To suggest this one has to not read scripture or know Christ. Jesus criticised the teachers of the law
for

2 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matthew 23:2-3

Their failure was in not doing what they preached, hypocrisy.

Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Matt 23:25

6 "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."
7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom.
10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.
James 4:6-10

Those who believe repentance is just changing your mind with no life expression
are merely thought christians, with no reality.

Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:10

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,
4 .... who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1+4

9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Cor 6:9-11

The wicked will not inherit THE KINGDOM OF GOD. The kingdom of God in this verse has reference to the church that Jesus set up when he was here on earth. These sins mentioned in this verse will not keep a regenerate child of God out of heaven because Jesus paid for ALL of the sins of those that he died for. Take David, the apple of God's eye, as an example who committed adultery, murder, and lying. These types of sin will keep eternally saved people out of the church but will not keep them out of heaven.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

The wicked will not inherit THE KINGDOM OF GOD. The kingdom of God in this verse has reference to the church that Jesus set up when he was here on earth. These sins mentioned in this verse will not keep a regenerate child of God out of heaven because Jesus paid for ALL of the sins of those that he died for. Take David, the apple of God's eye, as an example who committed adultery, murder, and lying. These types of sin will keep eternally saved people out of the church but will not keep them out of heaven.

Certainly you could interpret things like this, but I would say it is not wise.
The whole point of coming to Christ is to leave this world and its ways of living and walk in the ways
of Heaven following the Lords will.

Clearly if one has not left to world, one is not in Gods will or saved.
If one leaves the world for a time, yet returns to its evil ways, there is no point in ones faith or life
that reflects God and His purposes. So why should we expect anything else but judgement as God
declares in Eze 18:26

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.
Eze 18:26

 

[metanoia]

Yes, we all are sinners which is why Jesus, who was without sin and the unblemished Lamb of God, had to die to cover our sins under His precious blood. As stated in Eph. 2:4-5, 8-9 - "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved); For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Without Christ we remain condemned, but through Christ we all have access by one Spirit to the Father. All who believe in Jesus Christ become fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.

 

[metanoia]

The wicked will not inherit THE KINGDOM OF GOD. The kingdom of God in this verse has reference to the church that Jesus set up when he was here on earth. These sins mentioned in this verse will not keep a regenerate child of God out of heaven because Jesus paid for ALL of the sins of those that he died for. Take David, the apple of God's eye, as an example who committed adultery, murder, and lying. These types of sin will keep eternally saved people out of the church but will not keep them out of heaven.

It is our new, born again Spirit of God that is eternally saved--NOT our spirit of the flesh. "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:6)

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, we all are sinners which is why Jesus, who was without sin and the unblemished Lamb of God, had to die to cover our sins under His precious blood. As stated in Eph. 2:4-5, 8-9 - "But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved); For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." Without Christ we remain condemned, but through Christ we all have access by one Spirit to the Father. All who believe in Jesus Christ become fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.

Christ paid in full for all of the sins of those that he died for and they are secured to live in heaven. Even though our sins have been paid for eternally, we still, after we have been regenerated, do carry the baggage of our sinful nature with, as described by Paul, of the warfare we struggle with within ourselves, the flesh against the Spirit. When we, as born again children, turn away from God and yield our bodies to lust after the things of the world we become dead to our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation of heaven, until we repent because God does not have fellowship with sin.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Certainly you could interpret things like this, but I would say it is not wise.
The whole point of coming to Christ is to leave this world and its ways of living and walk in the ways
of Heaven following the Lords will.

Clearly if one has not left to world, one is not in Gods will or saved.
If one leaves the world for a time, yet returns to its evil ways, there is no point in ones faith or life
that reflects God and His purposes. So why should we expect anything else but judgement as God
declares in Eze 18:26

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.
Eze 18:26

After we have been born again and then yield our bodies to lust after the things of the world, we die from our fellowship with God because God does not fellowship sin. We do not die from our eternal security of heaven, we die from our fellowship with God until we repent, then we regain our fellowship with God. The event of the prodigal son reflects this truth. 1 Cor 3:15 - If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

 

[Tobenia]

Through been born again

Belief that:

a) You are a sinner that cannot save yourself. You must repent (change your mind) that you can earn your salvation in any way.

b) Jesus paid your sin-debt in full via his death, burial and resurrection.

c) Through the shed blood of Jesus alone you receive salvation by faith as a gift.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Certainly you could interpret things like this, but I would say it is not wise.
The whole point of coming to Christ is to leave this world and its ways of living and walk in the ways
of Heaven following the Lords will.

Clearly if one has not left to world, one is not in Gods will or saved.
If one leaves the world for a time, yet returns to its evil ways, there is no point in ones faith or life
that reflects God and His purposes. So why should we expect anything else but judgement as God
declares in Eze 18:26

If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die.
Eze 18:26

Luke 15 is a good example of a born again son who separates himself from fellowship with his father for a period of time and then repents and comes back into fellowship with his father, he was never at anytime not his father's son, even though he was disobedient to his father.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Luke 15 is a good example of a born again son who separates himself from fellowship with his father for a period of time and then repents and comes back into fellowship with his father, he was never at anytime not his father's son, even though he was disobedient to his father.

I know this argument but it desires security above anything else.
Jesus was talking about the people of Israel who abandoned their God, taken into captivity,
and then returned.

The key question is about what is lostness and what is walking in the Spirit?

If you hold you can be in the world and of the world but because of a thought faith at some
point in the past you are saved and secure, then you end up with rebellious people in heaven.

A son is one who obeys their Father. Hebrews warns believers not to be deceived by sin and fall into
rebellion.

18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Heb 3:18-19

The objective of faith is to enter by the gate, walk the narrow path and become like Jesus.
If ones faith is just entering by the gate, then all is lost.

 

[metanoia]

Christ paid in full for all of the sins of those that he died for and they are secured to live in heaven. Even though our sins have been paid for eternally, we still, after we have been regenerated, do carry the baggage of our sinful nature with, as described by Paul, of the warfare we struggle with within ourselves, the flesh against the Spirit. When we, as born again children, turn away from God and yield our bodies to lust after the things of the world we become dead to our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation of heaven, until we repent because God does not have fellowship with sin.

I agree in that in order to have fellowship with Christ, we need to abide in Him. John 15:3-5 - "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." Branches cannot bear fruit independent of the vine. The fundamental truth of being a Christian is that one must be connected to (abide in) Jesus. In order to abide in Christ, you MUST believe in Him as said in John 5:38 - "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not BELIEVE."

 

[GHClarkII]

It shows you know nothing of Scripture


The OT has the saying, CHOSE THIS DAY who you will

Jesus also said is will was to ALWAYS take Israe under his wings as a mother hen, but they were unwilling. [/QUOTE]

Again you show your ignorance of the scripture. Subjectively quoting half sentences from scripture does not prove a point, and you completely missed Jesus' point in your quotation from Matthew. Christ tells Jerusalem, or the scribes and Pharisees, that he wants to gather her children, not her, but that she was unwilling. This text is a judgement on the rulers of the Jews for trying to hinder Jesus' ministry, not about him wishing their free will choice to choose him would happen. You have not answered any of my points, or anyone else on this forum for that matter, and you are twisting the scriptures which I have just shown. The point is proved, you do not know the scriptures or the Lord. Repent and believe in Christ's work alone. It is not about your free will but His sovereign Grace.

May God be the Judge

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I agree in that in order to have fellowship with Christ, we need to abide in Him. John 15:3-5 - "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." Branches cannot bear fruit independent of the vine. The fundamental truth of being a Christian is that one must be connected to (abide in) Jesus. In order to abide in Christ, you MUST believe in Him as said in John 5:38 - "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not BELIEVE."

Are you anything more than the thought Christian?
I have talked to thought Christians before and nothing they do matters, whether good or bad,
and Christ does not bring them victory or defeat, He just changes how God regards them.
It is so passive some claim you cannot tell the difference between a believer and someone in
the world.

If you know families with serious problems this is like poison, because they need real solutions
and real change today, now, in the hearts, lives and behaviour of people. Once it becomes this
empty idea and that is salvation, nothing matters, you may as well take up yoga, it would have
a better effect.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I agree in that in order to have fellowship with Christ, we need to abide in Him. John 15:3-5 - "You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." Branches cannot bear fruit independent of the vine. The fundamental truth of being a Christian is that one must be connected to (abide in) Jesus. In order to abide in Christ, you MUST believe in Him as said in John 5:38 - "But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not BELIEVE."

After God has put his Holy Spirit within us at the new birth We are in Christ and Christ in us. We have no righteousness except the imputed righteousness of Christ. Christ is in us via the way of the Holy Ghost within us. When we, as born again children, lust after the things of the world and sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God because God does not fellowship sin. When the Holy Spirit convicts us and we repent we regain our fellowship with God. We are not abiding in the vine when we are actively sinning but are grafted back in after repentance.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

I know this argument but it desires security above anything else.
Jesus was talking about the people of Israel who abandoned their God, taken into captivity,
and then returned.

The key question is about what is lostness and what is walking in the Spirit?

If you hold you can be in the world and of the world but because of a thought faith at some
point in the past you are saved and secure, then you end up with rebellious people in heaven.

A son is one who obeys their Father. Hebrews warns believers not to be deceived by sin and fall into
rebellion.

18 And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed?
19 So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
Heb 3:18-19

The objective of faith is to enter by the gate, walk the narrow path and become like Jesus.
If ones faith is just entering by the gate, then all is lost.

So, are you one of those that believe after you are born again, you never sin again?

 

[GHClarkII]

An individual must believe it is effective for it to be effective for them..

If what you say is true, then Christ died for countless people who will die and go to perdition. His death was in vain for them and he failed in his mission to redeem all that the Father gives him "AND LOSE NONE OF THEM". That Christ cannot save. His death cannot atone. He is a failure, plain and simple.

May God be the Judge

 

[metanoia]

Are you anything more than the thought Christian?
I have talked to thought Christians before and nothing they do matters, whether good or bad,
and Christ does not bring them victory or defeat, He just changes how God regards them.
It is so passive some claim you cannot tell the difference between a believer and someone in
the world.

If you know families with serious problems this is like poison, because they need real solutions
and real change today, now, in the hearts, lives and behaviour of people. Once it becomes this
empty idea and that is salvation, nothing matters, you may as well take up yoga, it would have
a better effect.

I believe that when Christians lust after the things of world and of the flesh, they fall out of fellowship with Christ, but they do not lose their salvation. They also miss out on the many blessings they would otherwise receive by abiding in Christ. Abiding in God's word gives us the strength to fight the many battles that most of us face during our lifetimes. God's word also gives us peace and comfort that is beyond understanding. Every Christian should let the light of Christ shine in their lives, but we know that doesn't always happen if they're not listening to the Holy Spirit within themselves and growing in God's word. Pray that the Holy Spirit will convict their hearts of their sin, rather than judge them.