Acts 13: 48 does not support Calvinism
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The problem with your analogy is that you are using a human understanding of a divine idea (logic) to impose arbitrary limits on the Creator. To me that seems quite hilarious!
Nonetheless, you have a right to your view and I respect your view, though I disagree.
Have you never met a married bachelor? I know quite a few bachelors who are part of the bride of Christ! Now that would be a married bachelor, would it not? In God's eyes I think it would be!
Nonetheless, you have a right to your view and I respect your view, though I disagree.
Have you never met a married bachelor? I know quite a few bachelors who are part of the bride of Christ! Now that would be a married bachelor, would it not? In God's eyes I think it would be!
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In rereading your posts again, I really think you have some good things to say, but this line (from post #37) really has me puzzling: "That is why God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and gave them to Christ to be a sacrifice to God for their sins."
Here, let me explain:
(1) First you have "choose" when I think you meant "chose" but I don't know for sure.
(2) You say "elect people" but don't explain what you mean by that - Calvinism has a set meaning for "elect" but you say you are not Calvinistic - so I might think I know what you mean, but I am not sure.
(3) A straight forward reading seems to say that these "elect people" were given to Christ so that they could be a sacrifice (to God for their sins). Do you mean literally that these elect will be (have been? should be?) sacrificed literally (or figuratively?) Or is your sentence structure bad, and you meant to say something else?
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult; I am just explaining why I have no way to answer because I don't even know what you were trying to say in that post. I have no idea where to start to find Scripture to disprove what I don't even know you were saying.
Here, let me explain:
(1) First you have "choose" when I think you meant "chose" but I don't know for sure.
(2) You say "elect people" but don't explain what you mean by that - Calvinism has a set meaning for "elect" but you say you are not Calvinistic - so I might think I know what you mean, but I am not sure.
(3) A straight forward reading seems to say that these "elect people" were given to Christ so that they could be a sacrifice (to God for their sins). Do you mean literally that these elect will be (have been? should be?) sacrificed literally (or figuratively?) Or is your sentence structure bad, and you meant to say something else?
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult; I am just explaining why I have no way to answer because I don't even know what you were trying to say in that post. I have no idea where to start to find Scripture to disprove what I don't even know you were saying.
I'm always glad to be entertaining, but actually, logic--like mathematics--isn't a "divine idea"; it's a manmade system of reasoning. There is no other understanding of it, other than the human one--but that's ok, we're all humans.
Logic and math do not impose limits on anything; they merely help us describe the limits that exist naturally (and are therefore not arbitrary).
Nope, no one has. A married bachelor is an impossibility.
Doubtful, unless you know some bachelors who are also bricks...
"Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven final plagues (afflictions, calamities) came and spoke to me. He said, Come with me! I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife. Then in the Spirit He conveyed me away to a vast and lofty mountain and exhibited to me the holy (hallowed, consecrated) city of Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God..." --Revelation 21:9-10 (Amplified Bible)
In any case, bachelors are men, and could not therefore be brides.
No, it would not. That is not what those words mean in the context in which I used them.
Well, that's precious, but it really doesn't matter what you think God thinks; the words have already been given their definitions by the human beings that use them.
Logic and math do not impose limits on anything; they merely help us describe the limits that exist naturally (and are therefore not arbitrary).
Nope, no one has. A married bachelor is an impossibility.
Doubtful, unless you know some bachelors who are also bricks...
"Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven final plagues (afflictions, calamities) came and spoke to me. He said, Come with me! I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife. Then in the Spirit He conveyed me away to a vast and lofty mountain and exhibited to me the holy (hallowed, consecrated) city of Jerusalem descending out of heaven from God..." --Revelation 21:9-10 (Amplified Bible)
In any case, bachelors are men, and could not therefore be brides.
No, it would not. That is not what those words mean in the context in which I used them.
Well, that's precious, but it really doesn't matter what you think God thinks; the words have already been given their definitions by the human beings that use them.
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I do not believe God chose a group of people and said "you, you, and you are going to heaven and the rest are going to hell." As you say in your quote from Psalm 53 God looked down from heaven and nobody sought God, everyone had turned away from Him. Their turning away was their free choice. The elect are those who choose Christ of their own free will. The disciple did not have to follow Jesus, they could have said no and carried on fishing. God gave us free will, we are not zombies as Psalm 53 so eloquently explains. You say it yourself and I have highlighted it for you.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Try as we may we cannot explain why some men respond to the gospel and others reject better that what God has revealed in His word. What causes a mans heart to love evil more than the truth of Gods word? Only God knows the heart of man to answer that question.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Try as we may we cannot explain why some men respond to the gospel and others reject better that what God has revealed in His word. What causes a mans heart to love evil more than the truth of Gods word? Only God knows the heart of man to answer that question.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Why would an omniscient God let stupid people pick who would be elect?
Can't God be God and do the choosing of who will be elect?
Not sure why that is so offensive to some people.
No one seems to have any problem with God choosing the Israelites over the Caananites or over the Egyptians. No one has a problem with God choosing Jacob over Esau.
But when you say that God elects His People to be Children of God people come out of the woodwork with all their feelings on why this can't be true.
In this way men try to put themselves in the place of God and as long as men follow the same formula, according to their understanding, God owes them.
For some it is water baptism. For others it is a Saturday sabbath. But that's not what the bible says.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Can't God be God and do the choosing of who will be elect?
Not sure why that is so offensive to some people.
No one seems to have any problem with God choosing the Israelites over the Caananites or over the Egyptians. No one has a problem with God choosing Jacob over Esau.
But when you say that God elects His People to be Children of God people come out of the woodwork with all their feelings on why this can't be true.
In this way men try to put themselves in the place of God and as long as men follow the same formula, according to their understanding, God owes them.
For some it is water baptism. For others it is a Saturday sabbath. But that's not what the bible says.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
You state that the elect are those that choose Christ of their own free will. I said that I believe the scriptures to teach that God gave man a free will to choose how they want to live their lives, but I also said that man has no choice in his eternal salvation. Eph 2 explains that none of us will seek Christ until we are regenerated and given a new heart, Eze 36:26.
In rereading your posts again, I really think you have some good things to say, but this line (from post #37) really has me puzzling: "That is why God choose an elect people before the foundation of the world and gave them to Christ to be a sacrifice to God for their sins."
Here, let me explain:
(1) First you have "choose" when I think you meant "chose" but I don't know for sure.
(2) You say "elect people" but don't explain what you mean by that - Calvinism has a set meaning for "elect" but you say you are not Calvinistic - so I might think I know what you mean, but I am not sure.
(3) A straight forward reading seems to say that these "elect people" were given to Christ so that they could be a sacrifice (to God for their sins). Do you mean literally that these elect will be (have been? should be?) sacrificed literally (or figuratively?) Or is your sentence structure bad, and you meant to say something else?
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult; I am just explaining why I have no way to answer because I don't even know what you were trying to say in that post. I have no idea where to start to find Scripture to disprove what I don't even know you were saying.
Here, let me explain:
(1) First you have "choose" when I think you meant "chose" but I don't know for sure.
(2) You say "elect people" but don't explain what you mean by that - Calvinism has a set meaning for "elect" but you say you are not Calvinistic - so I might think I know what you mean, but I am not sure.
(3) A straight forward reading seems to say that these "elect people" were given to Christ so that they could be a sacrifice (to God for their sins). Do you mean literally that these elect will be (have been? should be?) sacrificed literally (or figuratively?) Or is your sentence structure bad, and you meant to say something else?
Hey, I am not trying to be difficult; I am just explaining why I have no way to answer because I don't even know what you were trying to say in that post. I have no idea where to start to find Scripture to disprove what I don't even know you were saying.
Why are the unbelievers the way they are? Satan has led them by appealing to their flesh and through self-justification made them habitual sinners. We are all evil by nature.
Psalms 14:2, 3 "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
The answer for the Calvinist is that God has chosen His people from the foundation of the world. He then made provision to lead us out from under Satan's oppressive control. That said, we still have a choice in the matter. Predestination is very real but we should not let it define us. We cannot fully comprehend it, so let's just quit thinking about it. God knew we would choose right once enlightened. He also knows if we make bad choices and He will let that happen also.
Psalms 14:2, 3 "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
The answer for the Calvinist is that God has chosen His people from the foundation of the world. He then made provision to lead us out from under Satan's oppressive control. That said, we still have a choice in the matter. Predestination is very real but we should not let it define us. We cannot fully comprehend it, so let's just quit thinking about it. God knew we would choose right once enlightened. He also knows if we make bad choices and He will let that happen also.
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Ezekiel 36 is about the restoration of Israel which is yet future. The remnant which returned after the seventy years and their posterity were continually under Gentile yoke. In A. D. 70 they were driven into dispersion, which still continues. (From the Summarised Bible.)
While we wait, what about all the generations from AD70 until now and beyond. Are they all destined for Hell?
Answer: God has provided a way of escape for all those who freely and willingly repent of their own sins and accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour. They, throughout all generations, past and present, having come to Christ, shall be given a new heart now, and will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
While we wait, what about all the generations from AD70 until now and beyond. Are they all destined for Hell?
Answer: God has provided a way of escape for all those who freely and willingly repent of their own sins and accept Christ as their Lord and Saviour. They, throughout all generations, past and present, having come to Christ, shall be given a new heart now, and will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever.
Why are the unbelievers the way they are? Satan has led them by appealing to their flesh and through self-justification made them habitual sinners. We are all evil by nature.
Psalms 14:2, 3 "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
The answer for the Calvinist is that God has chosen His people from the foundation of the world. He then made provision to lead us out from under Satan's oppressive control. That said, we still have a choice in the matter. Predestination is very real but we should not let it define us. We cannot fully comprehend it, so let's just quit thinking about it. God knew we would choose right once enlightened. He also knows if we make bad choices and He will let that happen also.
Psalms 14:2, 3 "The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one."
The answer for the Calvinist is that God has chosen His people from the foundation of the world. He then made provision to lead us out from under Satan's oppressive control. That said, we still have a choice in the matter. Predestination is very real but we should not let it define us. We cannot fully comprehend it, so let's just quit thinking about it. God knew we would choose right once enlightened. He also knows if we make bad choices and He will let that happen also.
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