Eternal Security/OSAS is Bad Doctrine
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ROFL.....Because you are looking in the mirror. LOL
We are ...born again ....here on earth. No one is saved until G-d says...."saved". Once He does then correct no one can snatch a soul away. Notice...sav....ed. Meaning forever. Not while on this earth because one can loose the born again status..
I doubt He appreciated you folks who tries to take away His final judgement authority.
We are ...born again ....here on earth. No one is saved until G-d says...."saved". Once He does then correct no one can snatch a soul away. Notice...sav....ed. Meaning forever. Not while on this earth because one can loose the born again status..
I doubt He appreciated you folks who tries to take away His final judgement authority.
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I have never been one to study named denominations, so when someone speacts of a dcotrine I have not read of in the Word, I tend to wonder, and I though perhaps this post about emmerging in the 1960's waqs corrct. It is not the cross so it is not of any concern to me as 2must follow" doctrine.
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I always appreciate your good attitude. I started out in a Pentecostal/charismatic church, and I never liked the atmosphere of fear that was prevalent there, or in other, similar churches. People I disagreed with would say things like 'don't come against God's anointed,' or ,'beware you don't blaspheme the Holy Spirit.' Pastors who preached contrary to the bible would get angry if I questioned them about it. I was hurt and confused by that then, but now I realize that it was only ignorance.
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We can loose our salvation, backslide, and turn again into the world. This is why Paul said to keep looking at Jesus the author and finisher of our faith and to put aside every hindrance and temptation so that we might run the race with patience, right to the end.
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb 12:1-2 KJV)
Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. (Heb 12:1-2 KJV)
We have that in common, I began with a Charismatic group but after some time Imentioned Jesus was a Jew, nothing about His name being Yeshua, simply He was a Jew, and I was labled demon possessed…………….of courss I was banned.
As I departed I declared our Father is a God of order, and not confusion. Should anyone in the congregation have the gift of discerning demons he would certainly have the gift to cast it ou. So, by all means whoever sees a demon in me please cast it out….. Jaws dropped and gave to complete silence as I left.
As I departed I declared our Father is a God of order, and not confusion. Should anyone in the congregation have the gift of discerning demons he would certainly have the gift to cast it ou. So, by all means whoever sees a demon in me please cast it out….. Jaws dropped and gave to complete silence as I left.
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OSAS has one simple flaw
Jesus loves the world because He said He does.
Jesus loves the world because He showed it by dying for it.
Now which of these two statements are true.
We are defined by our beliefs that are shown in our actions.
Because we live in our heads we become deluded that the idea agreed with is the same as the
idea lived out.
Sin destroys, righteousness builds.
To repair past damage a price must be paid with a commitment to righteous build in the future.
The whole point of forgiving the past so the righteous future can exist eternally.
If the future is sinful, there is no remedy.
It the past is resolved while the future is doomed it makes no difference.
So the only reality is a forgiven past with an active righteous future that represents life shown
in the actions of Gods people. And the future must show working to resolution of sin, else
it is just hypocrisy and pretend.
Jesus loves the world because He said He does.
Jesus loves the world because He showed it by dying for it.
Now which of these two statements are true.
We are defined by our beliefs that are shown in our actions.
Because we live in our heads we become deluded that the idea agreed with is the same as the
idea lived out.
Sin destroys, righteousness builds.
To repair past damage a price must be paid with a commitment to righteous build in the future.
The whole point of forgiving the past so the righteous future can exist eternally.
If the future is sinful, there is no remedy.
It the past is resolved while the future is doomed it makes no difference.
So the only reality is a forgiven past with an active righteous future that represents life shown
in the actions of Gods people. And the future must show working to resolution of sin, else
it is just hypocrisy and pretend.
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Ok I agree that they will know us by our fruit but if our salvation and our being loved by the Father depends on our actions then how are you measuring them. What is the amount of our actions that put us in your enough catagory? Is it daily bible reading? Or forgiveness within a certain amount of days or is it how much we serve? I mean yes our lives change but we can love Christ and be struggling in the Christian life. Some people bring an already disciplined personality with them as a new Christian. Some people come to Christ with depression. Some come as someone whom wasn’t successful at much in life. Some come as shy or lonely or whatever. So OSAS is true for those that believe and live Jesus Christ. When the Word says work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works....it also means work out your own and pray for those that are struggling instead of excluding them based on your standards because our works can be as filthy rags when they are the price of our salvation.
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We are not working to save our own seves but we should work as fellow workers of God who are included in Christ or placed in His body to do good works which includes the works of the Gospel of our salvation for the benefit of those who are going to be saved through FAITH and OBEDIENCE to God the Father and in His only begotten Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
It is God's work to save and if we are in Him, we will be His instruments of righteousness and fellow workers in His work of salvation until Jesus comes back to save those who are in His body, the church of God..
... “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.” John 4:34-38
It is God's work to save and if we are in Him, we will be His instruments of righteousness and fellow workers in His work of salvation until Jesus comes back to save those who are in His body, the church of God..
... “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.” John 4:34-38
I think here conceptually or linguistically the mistake is being made.
I can say I will build a house. I can have the plans, the finance, the permissions, but until
I build the house it is just a proposition or intention and not a reality.
Salvation is about an acknowledgement about the truth of where we are and who God is
followed by an action that remedies the situation. The remedy is to become like Jesus,
the how we do this will vary and have different emphasises depending on who we are and
the issues we have.
When someone runs a race of 100m you finish the race by crossing the line, not giving up
part way down. And our sense of being like Jesus, is between us and Him, because most of
the reality is within where only we know, and He sees.
Jesus says simply this is one step at a time, and He is leading. When things are certain and
known, and progress is real, the pace is less important than its reality. Sad to say what often
people posses is a nice view of a sinful heart, without ever meeting Jesus.
I can say I will build a house. I can have the plans, the finance, the permissions, but until
I build the house it is just a proposition or intention and not a reality.
Salvation is about an acknowledgement about the truth of where we are and who God is
followed by an action that remedies the situation. The remedy is to become like Jesus,
the how we do this will vary and have different emphasises depending on who we are and
the issues we have.
When someone runs a race of 100m you finish the race by crossing the line, not giving up
part way down. And our sense of being like Jesus, is between us and Him, because most of
the reality is within where only we know, and He sees.
Jesus says simply this is one step at a time, and He is leading. When things are certain and
known, and progress is real, the pace is less important than its reality. Sad to say what often
people posses is a nice view of a sinful heart, without ever meeting Jesus.
You are asking a good question.
And I think the answer is about purity, what comes out of us, is it pure or polluted?
If you love, deeply love another, what does that mean?
Cleansing of the heart, resolving hurts, anger, defence of sin, bitterness, unforgiveness, greed,
jealousy, self indulgence are the beginning. Once one sees life for its temporary nature and
the love the cross represents, service is a goal and a delight.
It has never been about the quantity of good things that flow from us, but that any flow from
us, because it is Christ who is the origin and source. We do not stand because we have reached
this mark, but because we know Him and move in Him, in praise, in worship, in love, in thanks,
in all we do. Rather than I do this, in Christ I do that, in everything we do unto our Lord.
But where to we start? We start with the people closest to us, and bring them to the Lord, and
work our way through, until we find out how to love them all, the strengths and weaknesses,
seeing how we can bless and help them despite their struggles. It is not easy and it costs us
our life in the world but is eternal life with Christ.
And I think the answer is about purity, what comes out of us, is it pure or polluted?
If you love, deeply love another, what does that mean?
Cleansing of the heart, resolving hurts, anger, defence of sin, bitterness, unforgiveness, greed,
jealousy, self indulgence are the beginning. Once one sees life for its temporary nature and
the love the cross represents, service is a goal and a delight.
It has never been about the quantity of good things that flow from us, but that any flow from
us, because it is Christ who is the origin and source. We do not stand because we have reached
this mark, but because we know Him and move in Him, in praise, in worship, in love, in thanks,
in all we do. Rather than I do this, in Christ I do that, in everything we do unto our Lord.
But where to we start? We start with the people closest to us, and bring them to the Lord, and
work our way through, until we find out how to love them all, the strengths and weaknesses,
seeing how we can bless and help them despite their struggles. It is not easy and it costs us
our life in the world but is eternal life with Christ.
People don't understand Christ and what He has done for us.
What people mostly do understand is the Law. Because everyone is, or has been, under the law, at least at some point.
And the law says do this and be blessed, don't do that or be cursed.
That is the argument against OSAS. It is how can a person be saved if they aren't doing the do's of being blessed and they are doing the don'ts of being cursed?
The bigger question is WHO is the One doing the defining of what the do's and don'ts are?
Most people think that the law is pretty easy to understand. It's because no one understands TRULY what it says until they are saved and no longer under it.
No longer under the threat of having to do the dos to be blessed and no longer worried about not doing the don'ts of being cursed. How is that possible? Because, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has done the dos to the Highest so that we can be blessed.
We are not blessed because we think we have done the dos. That is just pure imagination. Pure silliness really if you are a Christian and have read your bible.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
So if Righteousness before God doesn't come through your actions, or your "obedience" to the law, then how does Righteousness come?
It comes through faith in Christ. Without Christ we can do nothing. We can't grow the fruit of Righteousness just by our own will or understanding. It is Christ, and Christ Alone who grows this fruit of Righteousness.
A Christian doesn't keep himself saved by ensuring all his actions are righteous. Or maybe once in a while does some righteous actions to offset some of the un-righteous actions he has done.
A Christian is kept saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't give His Gifts like some people do. He doesn't say "Here is life, but if you step over that line I will take it back". He gives His Gift eternally with no threats of revocation. Irrevocable.
Some people say that "Irr re VOC able" but I prefer saying it "Ir REV ocable" or Ir-revakabull. Either way it is Irrevocable.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
If you insist that Salvation can be lost then you are saying that God does take His Gifts back. That is simply an un-biblical statement.
You can't be any more un-saved than you can be un-born from your mother or father. Its too late. Like it or not. You just have to live with it. The Lord Jesus Loves you and He's not going to stop. Just like our physical mothers and fathers, only better...
Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
What people mostly do understand is the Law. Because everyone is, or has been, under the law, at least at some point.
And the law says do this and be blessed, don't do that or be cursed.
That is the argument against OSAS. It is how can a person be saved if they aren't doing the do's of being blessed and they are doing the don'ts of being cursed?
The bigger question is WHO is the One doing the defining of what the do's and don'ts are?
Most people think that the law is pretty easy to understand. It's because no one understands TRULY what it says until they are saved and no longer under it.
No longer under the threat of having to do the dos to be blessed and no longer worried about not doing the don'ts of being cursed. How is that possible? Because, Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ has done the dos to the Highest so that we can be blessed.
We are not blessed because we think we have done the dos. That is just pure imagination. Pure silliness really if you are a Christian and have read your bible.
Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
So if Righteousness before God doesn't come through your actions, or your "obedience" to the law, then how does Righteousness come?
It comes through faith in Christ. Without Christ we can do nothing. We can't grow the fruit of Righteousness just by our own will or understanding. It is Christ, and Christ Alone who grows this fruit of Righteousness.
A Christian doesn't keep himself saved by ensuring all his actions are righteous. Or maybe once in a while does some righteous actions to offset some of the un-righteous actions he has done.
A Christian is kept saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't give His Gifts like some people do. He doesn't say "Here is life, but if you step over that line I will take it back". He gives His Gift eternally with no threats of revocation. Irrevocable.
Some people say that "Irr re VOC able" but I prefer saying it "Ir REV ocable" or Ir-revakabull. Either way it is Irrevocable.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
If you insist that Salvation can be lost then you are saying that God does take His Gifts back. That is simply an un-biblical statement.
You can't be any more un-saved than you can be un-born from your mother or father. Its too late. Like it or not. You just have to live with it. The Lord Jesus Loves you and He's not going to stop. Just like our physical mothers and fathers, only better...
Matthew 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
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