Not By Works

[FollowHisSteps]

You are going against me when you insinuate that I lied when I said I did not belong to a denomination.

There are many scriptures that speak of righteous men. You don't understand that the scriptures actually are about there is no righteous man who hasn't sinned ever.
You seem to have a mixture of beliefs from Calvin and or Luther?

I have no idea what you mean by that.

Ok, if all falling short as a statement you do not understand, you are not churched in
evangelical churches.

Falling short is the basis we are all sinners, no one is righteous not even one.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:22-23

The idea people can be righteous outside repentance is a preterist belief.
Most of the christian church regards such a position as heretical.

It sounds like you are not aware of these two historical positions and where you stand
in regard of them. I personally have never knowingly spoken to someone who believes there
are righteous people separate from communion with God.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I go by the scriptures.
It is obvious.

I wish things were obvious, because I can see many mean different things than I do
while using the same words. Maybe you just have not been exposed to this enough.

One believer claimed when I declared my faith in similar terms to a church creed, they
said I had just learnt the words and they were empty. What was amusing, was yes
many speak these creeds with no faith, I on the hand spoke them because they expressed
my heart. They simply could not believe that that was what I was doing.

 

[YourTruthGod]

Ok, if all falling short as a statement you do not understand, you are not churched in
evangelical churches.

I know about those churches.

Falling short is the basis we are all sinners, no one is righteous not even one.

That is not what scriptures say.
The scriptures tell us of many righteous people.

There is no one righteous who has never sinned even once.

This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:22-23

Paul is quoting Old Testament scriptures about how even righteous men have sinned.

The idea people can be righteous outside repentance is a preterist belief.

Who said outside of repentance?

Most of the christian church regards such a position as heretical.

You should be more careful what you say others say.

It sounds like you are not aware of these two historical positions and where you stand
in regard of them. I personally have never knowingly spoken to someone who believes there
are righteous people separate from communion with God.

You are saying things that I haven't said.
You should quote me and prove it now.

 

[Hevosmies]

My take....He is one too, or he is compromised in some way that would hurt his position. Like I said it is a big sick club.

Which club? Freemasons?

I know here where I live most judges are masons and they run alot of the big businesses too.

WICKEDNESS in high places. You are right that the powers that be are wicked to the core.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

You are going against me when you insinuate that I lied when I said I did not belong to a denomination.

Hi my friend,

I am not insinuating something, I am exploring your similarities. I do not belong to a denomination.
I have been linked to a anglican, methodist, urc, congregational, baptist, charismatic house church,
pentecostal churches, while I am not solidly behind anyone. I know the Nazarene statement of faith
is close to my positions.

So I hope you can understand my attempt to explore where you have some similarities.
That is a good thing.

 

[UnderGrace]

Which club? Freemasons?

I know here where I live most judges are masons and they run a lot of the big businesses too.

The pedophilia criminals, are interconnected, and procure children for each other.

"Club" was a bad word to use.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I wish things were obvious, because I can see many mean different things than I do
while using the same words. Maybe you just have not been exposed to this enough.

Maybe you should just ask me to explain more.

One believer claimed when I declared my faith in similar terms to a church creed, they
said I had just learnt the words and they were empty. What was amusing, was yes
many speak these creeds with no faith, I on the hand spoke them because they expressed
my heart. They simply could not believe that that was what I was doing.

I don't think I have done that to you.

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I know about those churches.

That is not what scriptures say.
The scriptures tell us of many righteous people.
There is no one righteous who has never sinned even once.
Paul is quoting Old Testament scriptures about how even righteous men have sinned.
Who said outside of repentance?
You should be more careful what you say others say.
You are saying things that I haven't said.
You should quote me and prove it now.

I wonder how many people know how debates work.
Each member represents how things come across to attempt to clarify what others mean.
It is not meant as a solid representation but an interpretation.

Please correct me if you feel I am not representing you fairly. I am not trying to be confrontational
or judgemental, I am just expressing an impression. Are such impressions too difficult to face?

This is how one debates ideas and explores where people are. The ideas are separate from the people,
and they can be developed as the discussion proceeds. If you take things personally, it somewhat falls
apart, because you need good will to make it progress.

I have to go now, talk tomorrow, maybe, God bless you

 

[VCO]

We have to obey to get saved in the first place; and, not everyone obeys after being saved, but they have to.


That is obeying to confess and repent of our sins even after being saved.

Not everyone always does what we have to do after being saved. We are warned for a reason.

'We have to believe that we have to obey Jesus.

It is not a false gospel to do what Jesus says to do to get saved and to stay saved.

If we can find HOW GOD saved ONE PERSON, then we will KNOW HOW GOD SAVED EVERY PERSON THAT HE SAVED:

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
6 "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Romans 4:2-5 (CSBBible)
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about—but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not credited as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on him who declares the ungodly to be righteous,
his faith is credited for righteousness.

Hebrews 11:19 (NCV)
19 Abraham believed that God could raise the dead, and really, it was as if Abraham got Isaac back from death.

Galatians 3:6 (NCV)
6 The Scriptures say the same thing about Abraham: “Abraham believed God, and
God accepted Abraham’s faith, and that faith made him right with God.“

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
16 know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Ephesians 2:5 (NIV)
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.



PLEASE LISTEN TO ME:

YOU HAVE HAD A FALSE PROPHET TEACH YOU LIES THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT GOD HAS SAID SPECIFICALLY IN HIS WORD.

Please stop peddling those same lies, and seriously look at the verses that I posted above.

 

[YourTruthGod]

If we can find HOW GOD saved ONE PERSON, then we will KNOW HOW GOD SAVED EVERY PERSON THAT HE SAVED:

Malachi 3:6 (NASB)
6 "For I, the LORD, do not change;
therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

Romans 4:2-5 (CSBBible)
2 If Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about—but not before God.
3 For what does the Scripture say? Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness.
4 Now to the one who works, pay is not credited as a gift, but as something owed.
5 But to the one who does not work, but believes on him who declares the ungodly to be righteous,
his faith is credited for righteousness.

Hebrews 11:19 (NCV)
19 Abraham believed that God could raise the dead, and really, it was as if Abraham got Isaac back from death.

Galatians 3:6 (NCV)
6 The Scriptures say the same thing about Abraham: “Abraham believed God, and
God accepted Abraham’s faith, and that faith made him right with God.“

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

Galatians 2:16 (HCSB)
16 know that no one is justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ. And we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Ephesians 2:5 (NIV)
5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NIV)
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.



PLEASE LISTEN TO ME:

YOU HAVE HAD A FALSE PROPHET TEACH YOU LIES THAT CONTRADICTS WHAT GOD HAS SAID SPECIFICALLY IN HIS WORD.

Please stop peddling those same lies, and seriously look at the verses that I posted above.

Paul is NOT going against what Jesus says. Paul is speaking about the purification works.

We are blessed as a disciple, family member, and friend if we do what Jesus says.


Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

 

[TruthTalk]

So you are just going to ignore or dismiss the scriptures I gave you from Galatians?
Paul is speaking of the purification works of the law.

I'm not playing this "tag your it" game with you, good bye.

 

[YourTruthGod]

I'm not playing this "tag your it" game with you, good bye.

I don't play games with God's words.

 

[GodsGrace101]

The poor in spirit is the person's spirit; it is a person who is humble and lowly and contrite.

It's also a person that understands his need for God...
those who are not poor in spirit to NOT understand their need for God and thus there is little transformation in them because they're too haughty and proud.

 

[GodsGrace101]

So you are just going to ignore or dismiss the scriptures I gave you from Galatians?
Paul is speaking of the purification works of the law.

Yes...this is what is done here on this thread.
They belittle those who want to obey God...
and if you post scripture you'll get no answer.

OTOH, they will post scripture that they THINK supports their view of no obedience and of no works.

It's a hoot.
You'll come to have fun here...
Although it's no laughing matter and souls are at stake...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Explain the following word ANOTHER....another which is not another<--a prime example of why WE USE THE GREEK

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

How about giving the scripture?

 

[YourTruthGod]

It's also a person that understands his need for God...
those who are not poor in spirit to NOT understand their need for God and thus there is little transformation in them because they're too haughty and proud.

A person is not to reject God's purpose for them; we are to repent of our sins.

 

[GodsGrace101]

You absolutely have no honesty......it has nothing to do with following JESUS AND No one has said that Fran....what we OPPOSE is the FALSE GOSPEL OF A SELF MAINTAINED LOSABLE SALVATION that you peddle.....get some honesty....it is rather distasteful....!!!

You speak of self-maintained salvation as if it's a sin and not what Jesus taught.
You speak of salvation as if it's guaranteed to you and it is NOT. It is INDEED based on your obedience to God after your initial salvation.

Please read Matthew 7:24-27 (this is how scripture is posted, BTW, something you refuse to do)
and answer these questions:
1. WHO did the building --- the person or Jesus?
2. What did the smart person do in verse 24?
3. Why did the house not fall? Because Jesus built it or because it was FOUNDED on the Rock?
4. What did the foolish man do? What is the sand? (maybe anything that is not the Rock)?
5. This house that was built on sand...what happened to it?

If Jesus is comparing to methods of building and HE IS THE ROCK and that is the smart man and the smart man is building UPON THE FOUNDATION of the Rock....The Rock itself is NOT building the house...

Then anything else upon which our faith/house is built is NOT THE ROCK.

Easy. No Greek necessary.


Mathew 7:24-27
The Two Foundations
24“Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25“And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27“The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall.”

 

[YourTruthGod]

Yes...this is what is done here on this thread.
They belittle those who want to obey God...
and if you post scripture you'll get no answer.

OTOH, they will post scripture that they THINK supports their view of no obedience and of no works.

It's a hoot.
You'll come to have fun here...
Although it's no laughing matter and souls are at stake...

I enjoy talking about the scriptures. I even enjoy discussing with those who go against me; except that it would be better if they didn't resort to all that you mentioned, and insults and false accusations.

 

[GodsGrace101]

Don't speak according to scripture then.

@dcontroversal doesn't like scripture...
It speaks against his personal beliefs that have nothing to do with mainline Christianity.

 

[GodsGrace101]

I enjoy talking about the scriptures. I even enjoy discussing with those who go against me; except that it would be better if they didn't resort to all that you mentioned, and insults and false accusations.

Yes...I agree.

Jesus said and taught and preached so that we could transform our lives.
Paul said exactly the same...of course.

Problem is: some here want to say they're Christian even though there's no transformation and they act like the rest of the world.

So what do they THINK makes them Christian?
This is a question they should ask themselves....

If we don't speak like a Chrisitian
or act like a Christian
or believe like a Christian....

Are we a Christian??