Jesus is not coming back. He already did in 70 A.D.
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The woman being drunk with the blood of the saints, is demonstrating that the woman has been and will be responsible for the death of the great tribulation saints.
A clue to who the woman is as follows:
"The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (Rev.17:18)
At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the then known world. Below is another clue:
"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. " (Rev.17:19)
Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. So, the woman is a city that sits on seven hills.
In John's time Roman Catholicism had not yet been established, but the clues are for us, which is pointing us to Rome's religious system of Roman Catholicism. Her sitting on seven hills is referring to her headquarters, the Vatican.
Roman Catholicism considers herself as mother church, but she is a counterfeit church. And she wants every single person to come under the authority of the pope and his church.
The woman is also said to be "dressed in purple and scarlet." These are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals, further pointing to Rome's religious system.
When that antichrist comes, I believe that the false prophet will be played by a future pope who will even perform miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the antichrist/beast in support of him, i.e. to add to the beasts credibility of his claim of being God. There are over 1.2 billion devout Catholics who look to the pope as their spiritual leader. Therefore, when that antichrist/beast comes, he will have all of Catholicism in his hip pocket and that because their leader, the pope/false prophet, will be supporting him. The false prophet is the one that will cause all, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive the mark of the beast. And whoever does not have the mark will not be able to buy or sell.
The phrases "is near, is coming quickly," were all used by the OT saints and the apostles of an event that has yet to take place, that is, "The Day of the Lord." This is the time of God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as all the plagues that the two witnesses will cause. That said, it is obvious that those phrases do not carry with them an established day, month or year, when the day of the Lord will take place and that because we still have no fulfillment of the Day of the Lord. Therefore, the only conclusion is that it means that it is always on the horizon, looming, about to take place, imminent.
Regarding your question on Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, the key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation is found in Rev.1:19 where John is told to write:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches and which is also representative of the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period
That said, we are currently still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write, i.e. the church period.
Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being gathered, which is also supported by the fact that, though the word "church" is used 18 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3, it never appears again following the end of chapter 3. The next time the church is mentioned is as the bride found in Rev.19:6-8, 14, with the actual word being used again in Rev.22:16 in the epilog.
Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and will gather both the dead and the living believers, taking His entire church back to the Father's house as promised in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-18.
Once the church has been removed from the earth, then God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon them in Dan.9:24. During this time God's wrath will begin to be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with antichrist establishing his seven year agreement with Israel, allowing her to build her temple and once again begin to perform sacrifices.
At the end of that seven years, Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
A clue to who the woman is as follows:
"The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (Rev.17:18)
At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the then known world. Below is another clue:
"The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. " (Rev.17:19)
Rome was literally built on and is famous for her seven hills. So, the woman is a city that sits on seven hills.
In John's time Roman Catholicism had not yet been established, but the clues are for us, which is pointing us to Rome's religious system of Roman Catholicism. Her sitting on seven hills is referring to her headquarters, the Vatican.
Roman Catholicism considers herself as mother church, but she is a counterfeit church. And she wants every single person to come under the authority of the pope and his church.
The woman is also said to be "dressed in purple and scarlet." These are the exact colors worn by the bishops and cardinals, further pointing to Rome's religious system.
When that antichrist comes, I believe that the false prophet will be played by a future pope who will even perform miracles, signs and wonders on behalf of the antichrist/beast in support of him, i.e. to add to the beasts credibility of his claim of being God. There are over 1.2 billion devout Catholics who look to the pope as their spiritual leader. Therefore, when that antichrist/beast comes, he will have all of Catholicism in his hip pocket and that because their leader, the pope/false prophet, will be supporting him. The false prophet is the one that will cause all, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive the mark of the beast. And whoever does not have the mark will not be able to buy or sell.
The phrases "is near, is coming quickly," were all used by the OT saints and the apostles of an event that has yet to take place, that is, "The Day of the Lord." This is the time of God's wrath, which will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as all the plagues that the two witnesses will cause. That said, it is obvious that those phrases do not carry with them an established day, month or year, when the day of the Lord will take place and that because we still have no fulfillment of the Day of the Lord. Therefore, the only conclusion is that it means that it is always on the horizon, looming, about to take place, imminent.
Regarding your question on Revelation chapters 1 thru 3, the key to understanding the chronological order of Revelation is found in Rev.1:19 where John is told to write:
What you have seen = Everything written from Rev.1:1 thru 1:19
What is now = Represented by the letters to the seven churches and which is also representative of the entire church period
What will take place later = Everything that takes place after the "what is now," i.e. after the church period
That said, we are currently still in the "what is now" part of what John was told to write, i.e. the church period.
Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the church being gathered, which is also supported by the fact that, though the word "church" is used 18 times throughout chapters 1 thru 3, it never appears again following the end of chapter 3. The next time the church is mentioned is as the bride found in Rev.19:6-8, 14, with the actual word being used again in Rev.22:16 in the epilog.
Jesus said, "I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." Once the church has been completed, then the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and will gather both the dead and the living believers, taking His entire church back to the Father's house as promised in John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-18.
Once the church has been removed from the earth, then God will pick up right where He left off with Israel in fulfillment of that last seven years of the seventy seven year periods that were decreed upon them in Dan.9:24. During this time God's wrath will begin to be poured out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, with antichrist establishing his seven year agreement with Israel, allowing her to build her temple and once again begin to perform sacrifices.
At the end of that seven years, Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.
I read an interesting idea yesterday from a person's blog. He laid out a bunch of proofs that he believes show that the fourth beast of Revelation is actually Israel and not Rome. He had some arguments that seemed pretty good but I'm not sure what to think of it at this point.
I was wondering if you had heard that idea before and if you had any thoughts or insights about that?
I was wondering if you had heard that idea before and if you had any thoughts or insights about that?
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Hello again delirious,
Forgive me for jumping in, but there is a very solid reason as to why Israel is not the woman who rides the beast, Mystery Babylon.
Chapter 18 of Revelation reveals the destruction of the woman, Mystery, Babylon the great. So much so that, no one will be able to inhabit that city again, as the scripture below reveals:
And the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again.
Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again,
nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again.
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again,
and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.
By this description, it sounds like a nuclear strike, which will keep anyone from being able to inhabit the city ever again.
That said, we have the following written regarding Israel during the millennial kingdom:
"They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them." - Rev.20:9
After Satan is released from the Abyss at the end of the thousand years, he gathers that group referred to as Gog and Magog and they surround "the camp of God's people, the city He loves" which is referring to Jerusalem where Israel dwells and which would reveal that God's people will have been dwelling there during the millennial kingdom. Therefore, since the woman, that city that sits on seven hills, Mystery Babyon the great, is destroyed during the time of God's wrath prior to Jesus return to the earth and people are shown to be living in Jerusalem at the end of the millennial period, then the woman, the fourth beast, Mystery Babylon cannot possibly be referring to Israel/Jerusalem.
Forgive me for jumping in, but there is a very solid reason as to why Israel is not the woman who rides the beast, Mystery Babylon.
Chapter 18 of Revelation reveals the destruction of the woman, Mystery, Babylon the great. So much so that, no one will be able to inhabit that city again, as the scripture below reveals:
And the sound of harpists and musicians, of flute players and trumpeters, will never ring out in you again.
Nor will any craftsmen of any trade be found in you again,
nor the sound of a millstone be heard in you again.
The light of a lamp will never shine in you again,
and the voices of a bride and bridegroom will never call out in you again.
By this description, it sounds like a nuclear strike, which will keep anyone from being able to inhabit the city ever again.
That said, we have the following written regarding Israel during the millennial kingdom:
"They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them." - Rev.20:9
After Satan is released from the Abyss at the end of the thousand years, he gathers that group referred to as Gog and Magog and they surround "the camp of God's people, the city He loves" which is referring to Jerusalem where Israel dwells and which would reveal that God's people will have been dwelling there during the millennial kingdom. Therefore, since the woman, that city that sits on seven hills, Mystery Babyon the great, is destroyed during the time of God's wrath prior to Jesus return to the earth and people are shown to be living in Jerusalem at the end of the millennial period, then the woman, the fourth beast, Mystery Babylon cannot possibly be referring to Israel/Jerusalem.
I have to agree. (I've mentioned this in past posts...) "EVERY EYE" means people there with eyes (either "still-living" persons, OR "resurrected eyeballs" [i.e. "saints having been resurrected"])… those not present at the time of His Second Coming to the earth [point in time] will YET "see" Him (also in judgment) but at the later GWTj (as I understand it).
A lot of people mistake the following passages [incorrectly] to be saying these people (in the following verses) are "RESURRECTED at the same time [in a so-called 'general resurrection']," but that is NOT what they are saying (the verses are NOT saying "SHALL RISE WITH" but "shall stand/rise IN THE JUDGMENT with..."; a completely DIFFERENT meaning! "rise" and "stand up" can both be referring to "raised to a position of prominence" [and it is not suggesting they are resurrected at the same moment (or location, for that matter), for this!]):
Matthew 12:41-42 [blb] -
41 The men of Nineveh will stand up [G450] in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the south will rise up [G1453] in the judgment with this the generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luke 11:31-32 [blb] -
31 The Queen of the South will rise up [G1453] in the judgment with the men of this generation and will condemn them. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, greater than Solomon is here. 32 The men of Nineveh will stand up [G450] in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, greater than Jonah is here.
Acts 17:31 [nasb] - [not a singular 24-hr day, here]
because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through [/in] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising [/(in) having raised] Him [out-]from the dead.
Acts 10:34-43 [blb] -
Good News for Gentiles
34 And Peter, having opened the mouth, said, “Of a truth I understand that God is not One who shows partiality, 35 but in every nation, the one fearing Him and working righteousness is acceptable to Him, 36 the word that He sent to the sons of Israel, proclaiming the gospel, peace by Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all.
37 You yourselves know the declaration having come through all Judea, having begun from Galilee, after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 Jesus from Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all those being oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things that He did, both in the region of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they also put to death, having hanged Him on a tree. 40 This One God raised up on the third day, and gave Him to become manifest, 41 not to all the people, but to the witnesses having been chosen beforehand by God, to us who did eat with and drink with Him after His rising out from the dead. 42 And He instructed us to proclaim to the people and to testify fully that He is the One having been appointed by God as judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets bear witness that everyone believing in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”
So...
--"of the living" (His judgment is that they LIVE, and if they have died YET SHALL THEY LIVE [ALL believers/saints of all times will be RESURRECTED before the MK age commences (and according to 1Cor15:23 [re: resurrection] there is a SEQUENCE to it, not merely remaining a singular "resurrection": "but each IN HIS OWN ORDER")])
--"and of the dead" (His judgment is that they DO NOT LIVE ["do not have life"], and having all died before the MK age commences [except for those to be born DURING the MK and who DIE only if rebellious, therein], will NOT be RESURRECTED FOR the MK age when it commences, but instead die or stay dead [along with all "the dead" of all times] until they stand before the GWTj after the MK age (at the final carrying out of that sentence: cast into the lake of fire).
Additionally, the word "KING" is used only TWO TIMES in all of the epistles (both "FUTURE"), see 1Tim4:15 "Which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [openly manifest], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
A lot of people mistake the following passages [incorrectly] to be saying these people (in the following verses) are "RESURRECTED at the same time [in a so-called 'general resurrection']," but that is NOT what they are saying (the verses are NOT saying "SHALL RISE WITH" but "shall stand/rise IN THE JUDGMENT with..."; a completely DIFFERENT meaning! "rise" and "stand up" can both be referring to "raised to a position of prominence" [and it is not suggesting they are resurrected at the same moment (or location, for that matter), for this!]):
Matthew 12:41-42 [blb] -
41 The men of Nineveh will stand up [G450] in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, a greater than Jonah is here. 42 The queen of the south will rise up [G1453] in the judgment with this the generation and will condemn it. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
Luke 11:31-32 [blb] -
31 The Queen of the South will rise up [G1453] in the judgment with the men of this generation and will condemn them. For she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon, and behold, greater than Solomon is here. 32 The men of Nineveh will stand up [G450] in the judgment with this generation and will condemn it. For they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, greater than Jonah is here.
Acts 17:31 [nasb] - [not a singular 24-hr day, here]
because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through [/in] a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising [/(in) having raised] Him [out-]from the dead.
Acts 10:34-43 [blb] -
Good News for Gentiles
34 And Peter, having opened the mouth, said, “Of a truth I understand that God is not One who shows partiality, 35 but in every nation, the one fearing Him and working righteousness is acceptable to Him, 36 the word that He sent to the sons of Israel, proclaiming the gospel, peace by Jesus Christ—He is Lord of all.
37 You yourselves know the declaration having come through all Judea, having begun from Galilee, after the baptism that John proclaimed: 38 Jesus from Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all those being oppressed by the devil, because God was with Him.
39 And we are witnesses of all things that He did, both in the region of the Jews and in Jerusalem, whom they also put to death, having hanged Him on a tree. 40 This One God raised up on the third day, and gave Him to become manifest, 41 not to all the people, but to the witnesses having been chosen beforehand by God, to us who did eat with and drink with Him after His rising out from the dead. 42 And He instructed us to proclaim to the people and to testify fully that He is the One having been appointed by God as judge of the living and the dead. 43 To Him all the prophets bear witness that everyone believing in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.”
So...
--"of the living" (His judgment is that they LIVE, and if they have died YET SHALL THEY LIVE [ALL believers/saints of all times will be RESURRECTED before the MK age commences (and according to 1Cor15:23 [re: resurrection] there is a SEQUENCE to it, not merely remaining a singular "resurrection": "but each IN HIS OWN ORDER")])
--"and of the dead" (His judgment is that they DO NOT LIVE ["do not have life"], and having all died before the MK age commences [except for those to be born DURING the MK and who DIE only if rebellious, therein], will NOT be RESURRECTED FOR the MK age when it commences, but instead die or stay dead [along with all "the dead" of all times] until they stand before the GWTj after the MK age (at the final carrying out of that sentence: cast into the lake of fire).
Additionally, the word "KING" is used only TWO TIMES in all of the epistles (both "FUTURE"), see 1Tim4:15 "Which IN HIS TIMES He SHALL SHEW [openly manifest], who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"
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I agree it is 100% correct as it is revealed in the Word of God.
The 1st period of 42 months or 1.260 days of the religious and satanic Empire of Antichrist will be ruled by the FIRST Beast that has rise up out of Sea, a Gentile Beast, as is written in Rev.13:v.5, it means the Beast did rise up out of the waters where the whore (the RCC) sits; the waters are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues, as was revealed by the angel of the Lord in Rev. 17:v.15.
The 2nd period of 42 months or 1.260 days of the religious and satanic Empire of Antichrist will be ruled by the Beast that WILL come up out of earth (earth is Israel) from now on, as is written in Rev.13:v.11. This man will manifest himself as messiah, actually an imposter, a false messiah, a false lamb, The Jews are waiting their peculiar messiah, not JESUS. He will sit in the temple of Jerusalem enthroned as God, shewing himself that he is God, and will oppose and exalt himself above all that is called God, a prophesied Paul the Apostle.
The Beast of Sea (the Pope and the great whore that rides upon this beast), and the Beast of earth (the false messiah, a false lamb that speak as a Dragon), both Beasts will build the religious and satanic Empire of Antichrist, Catholicism and Judaism, iron mixed with clay, two strong religious system in whole earth.
No it doesn't - you've taken one verse out of context, ignored the prophetic style of writing and ignored John's clearly stated time indicators.
John begins with:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
If we look at the Greek behind the word "shortly":
Strongs
G5034 tachos takh'-os
from the same as G5036;
a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 prefixed) in haste.
KJV: quickly, shortly, speedily.
So when the above is taken into account this is in fact what John is saying:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must in a brief space of time come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
The events following that John writes of including "every eye" and "those that pierced" would see him in a "brief space of time".
To try to place the "every eye" passage hundreds of years into a "future" judgment is based on a fawlty eisegeis.
John begins with:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
If we look at the Greek behind the word "shortly":
Strongs
G5034 tachos takh'-os
from the same as G5036;
a brief space (of time), i.e. (with G1722 prefixed) in haste.
KJV: quickly, shortly, speedily.
So when the above is taken into account this is in fact what John is saying:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must in a brief space of time come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
The events following that John writes of including "every eye" and "those that pierced" would see him in a "brief space of time".
To try to place the "every eye" passage hundreds of years into a "future" judgment is based on a fawlty eisegeis.
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The word in Rev1:1 is not the adverb "quickly, shortly, speedily" but the NOUN "IN QUICKNESS" and is in relation solely to "the things which MUST COME TO PASS" (that is, the FUTURE aspects of the Book of Revelation, mentioned also in 4:1), NOT things which would immediately unfold upon the earth, or that would transpire over the course of some 2000 years (as the Historicist interpretation of the Revelation has it), but in relation to Jesus' "STAND to JUDGE" [Isa3:13; Lam2:3-4; Rev5:6] (JUDGMENT SETTING and JUDGMENT SCENE) point in the chronology,
... which has not yet started (but will when the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / 2Th2:2-3,7b-8a]" STARTS, which is SEAL #1 and the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" at the START of a very specific future time period: "the Day of the Lord [TIME PERIOD]" which STARTS with the 7-yr trib/ "DARK" portion; the "he, he, he" of Dan9:27[26] is the "who, who, who" of 2Th2:3-9 [covering the ENTIRE 7-yr period, both passages!])
... which has not yet started (but will when the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3 / 2Th2:2-3,7b-8a]" STARTS, which is SEAL #1 and the Matt24:4/Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" at the START of a very specific future time period: "the Day of the Lord [TIME PERIOD]" which STARTS with the 7-yr trib/ "DARK" portion; the "he, he, he" of Dan9:27[26] is the "who, who, who" of 2Th2:3-9 [covering the ENTIRE 7-yr period, both passages!])
Daniel prophesied saying: Daniel 12:v.7 &11-12
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (30 days after the end of the 2nd period ruled by the false messiah of the Jews enthroned in Jerusalem, the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where our Lord was crucified).
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. 75 days after the end of the 2nd period of 1.260 days ruled by the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, that was enthroned in the holy place.
In my vison, I am sure that the day 1.335 is the great day of the return of JESUS,
When you lump two sections together indiscriminately, as you have done here, the reader misses the facts that:
--verse 24's "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and SHALL BE LED AWAY CAPTIVE INTO ALL THE NATIONS" [70ad events / section] takes place [SEQUENTIALLY] BEFORE verse 25 (and the following section), which says:
25 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26 Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” [I believe this is the "proleptic 'you'" speaking of Israel, but that these things are yet FUTURE, well after the v.24 "led away captive into all the nations" first takes place regarding Israel (70ad events)]
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
(Matthew 24:32-35; Mark 13:28-31)
29 Then Jesus told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 So also, when you see these things taking place, know that the kingdom of God is near. [the "proleptic 'you'" speaking of "all those in the future of the same category," that is, those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom was promised (i.e. to Israel, not to "the Church which is His body")]
[note that Isaiah 5:7 says that "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel" and that Jesus' other parables regarding "fig tree" DISTINGUISHES "the/a fig tree planted IN his vineyard," from that of the "vineyard" itself (and though somewhat related, are NOT the SAME THING)--in case anyone wants to argue that the "fig tree" is Israel proper, or something]
--verse 24's "And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and SHALL BE LED AWAY CAPTIVE INTO ALL THE NATIONS" [70ad events / section] takes place [SEQUENTIALLY] BEFORE verse 25 (and the following section), which says:
25 There will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth dismay among the nations, bewildered by the roaring of the sea and the surging of the waves. 26 Men will faint from fear and anxiety over what is coming upon the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to happen, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” [I believe this is the "proleptic 'you'" speaking of Israel, but that these things are yet FUTURE, well after the v.24 "led away captive into all the nations" first takes place regarding Israel (70ad events)]
The Lesson of the Fig Tree
(Matthew 24:32-35; Mark 13:28-31)
29 Then Jesus told them a parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 So also, when you see these things taking place, know that the kingdom of God is near. [the "proleptic 'you'" speaking of "all those in the future of the same category," that is, those TO WHOM the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom was promised (i.e. to Israel, not to "the Church which is His body")]
[note that Isaiah 5:7 says that "the VINEYARD of the Lord of hosts is the house of Israel" and that Jesus' other parables regarding "fig tree" DISTINGUISHES "the/a fig tree planted IN his vineyard," from that of the "vineyard" itself (and though somewhat related, are NOT the SAME THING)--in case anyone wants to argue that the "fig tree" is Israel proper, or something]
There's no "indiscriminately" at all at at all.
It's one continuous prophecy from
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
to:
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
One of the things that was to occur was:
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
It's one continuous prophecy from
Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
to:
Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
One of the things that was to occur was:
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
I was hoping Israel being the fourth beast might help you reconcile some of your issues with the MotB and the buying and selling of Rev 13.
The guy who suggested Israel had several interesting points. A few of them were:
Dan 7: 11-12, "“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
His idea was that Rome was not "destroyed and given to the burning flame" but Israel was. Also, that these verses say that Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece had "their lives prolonged for a time" after they were conquered. Israel fell immediately but Rome survived for a long time after 70 A.D. and does not fit.
He also pointed out that the Romans never were inside the city to trample it for 42 months but the Zealots inside the city who were from Galilee and other Gentile areas did trample it for 42 months.
He also makes mention of Wars 2.20.3-4 where Josephus mentions 10 generals and the territories they were to oversee in preparation for the war with Rome and the fact that 3 of them were uprooted/killed by Simon Ben Eleazar and John Gischala. This fits nicely with the ten horns who receive power with the beast for one hour and 3 horns being uprooted. He sees Simon Ben Eleazar or John Gischala as the little horn.
He makes some good points about Israel being the fourth beast. Still trying to evaluate it. I was hoping it might help you with MotB and buying and selling.
The guy who suggested Israel had several interesting points. A few of them were:
Dan 7: 11-12, "“I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.
His idea was that Rome was not "destroyed and given to the burning flame" but Israel was. Also, that these verses say that Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece had "their lives prolonged for a time" after they were conquered. Israel fell immediately but Rome survived for a long time after 70 A.D. and does not fit.
He also pointed out that the Romans never were inside the city to trample it for 42 months but the Zealots inside the city who were from Galilee and other Gentile areas did trample it for 42 months.
He also makes mention of Wars 2.20.3-4 where Josephus mentions 10 generals and the territories they were to oversee in preparation for the war with Rome and the fact that 3 of them were uprooted/killed by Simon Ben Eleazar and John Gischala. This fits nicely with the ten horns who receive power with the beast for one hour and 3 horns being uprooted. He sees Simon Ben Eleazar or John Gischala as the little horn.
He makes some good points about Israel being the fourth beast. Still trying to evaluate it. I was hoping it might help you with MotB and buying and selling.
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I see him as trying his best to answer the question of who could have fulfilled the MotB by ad70,(but literal instead of spiritually,lol). The problem still is Revelation 13:15 and Revelation 19:21 in aspect to our latter dialog.
The ones who do worship the image in Revelation 13:15 are spiritually dead(they worship the image) but they are not physically/literally killed by the beast.
The ones in Revelation 13:15 who do not worship the beast are not deceived and are killed because they refuse to worship the image of the beast. And so they are not spiritually dead and so the only other way the beast could kill them and fulfill Revelation 13:15 is to literally/physically "kill them".
In Revelation 19:21 those who are deceived and receive the mark and worship the image of the beast are given to the sword and the fowl eat their flesh. So they are spiritually dead(deceived/worship the image) and again the only other option of dead/killed is literal/physical.
In both Scriptures the bible gives proof that this is not a spiritual fulfillment .
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In regards to Rev 19: 21, and the surrounding context of verses 17-21, my understanding is that this is all of the rebellious zealots and people within the city of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. They were fighting for the "old order of things", the Jewish self-righteousness and religious system, and were enemies of the kingdom of Christ.
Matt 22: 7, "But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city."
The Romans were Christ/God's armies to destroy the rebellious Jews who rejected Him and His kingdom. The sword out of His mouth I would say is Christ's judgment pronounced against them and they were slaughtered in the city and the birds literally ate their flesh most likely.
Is that how you see Rev 19: 21?
Matt 22: 7, "But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city."
The Romans were Christ/God's armies to destroy the rebellious Jews who rejected Him and His kingdom. The sword out of His mouth I would say is Christ's judgment pronounced against them and they were slaughtered in the city and the birds literally ate their flesh most likely.
Is that how you see Rev 19: 21?
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