Jesus is not coming back. He already did in 70 A.D.

[delirious]

The Haggai 2 prophecy is undoubtedly futurist according to the writer of Hebrews. IMO it must refer to the Third Temple, as the first and the second are real and tangible entities.

I already answered in my previous post that the prophecy was fulfilled in Ezra 5 & 6. All you have to do is read the chapters and see that God provides the gold, silver and sacrifices for the 2nd temple that Joshua and Zerubbabel were rebuilding. That's why Haggai 2: 8 says the gold and silver is mine.

It was fulfilled "in a little while" which was almost immediately after the prophecy was given. God knows how to tell time.

Haggai 2: 9 is about Jesus. He is the temple that far surpasses any earthly temple. He is the One who gives peace. That's why the writer of Hebrews quotes it in Chapter 12. Haggai 2: 9 has nothing to do with "the little while".

I don't care whether you agree. You are simply wrong.

I remember in previous posts on this website how rude and arrogant you were. When you post things like this:

Incorrect on all counts.

Then you don't care about dialogue but just being a jerk.

God bless you in your search for truth. You are on my ignore list now.

 

[Oseas]

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Surely an unmistakeable phenomenon. And doubtless this has yet to occur.....

Daniel prophesied about this so great event and manifestation of the archangel (a strong angel) simultaneously with the coming of Jesus, saying: Daniel 12:1-3

1 And at that time (time future) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Verses 10-12:
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. )

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

JESUS left very clear saying: "Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened".

 

[Locutus]

Working day shortened to 8 hours - definitely a sign.

 

[Jsaracco]

According to the Bible, Jesus' second coming was in 70 A.D. Here is a few Scriptures in support of this:

Matt 16: 27-28, "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Matt 24: 30-31, "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " This is the Olivet Discourse and in verse 34 it says "ALL these things will come upon this generation" Not some things but ALL these signs will come upon this generation.

Matt 10: 23, "17 But beware of men, for they will deliver you up to councils and scourge you in their synagogues. You will be brought before governors and kings for My sake, as a testimony to them and to the Gentiles. But when they deliver you up, do not worry about how or what you should speak. For it will be given to you in that hour what you should speak; for it is not you who speak, but the Spirit of your Father who speaks in you. “Now brother will deliver up brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. And you will be hated by all for My name’s sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved. When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. 23 For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

I have many more Scriptures I can provide if anyone is interested in discussing this. God bless.[/QUOTE

From the ministry of John the Baptist through Christ’s days on earth and unto the the end of the book of acts the a Kingdom was proclaimed based on repentance of the nation of Israel. In Acts 3 PETER offers the Kingdom to the nation based on national repentance. Throughout Acts it offered eventually by Paul but again and again rejected. The offer of the King and the Kingdom was offered in Grace 40 years after the the ascension of our Lord. The offer was finally rescinded Through Paul in Acts 28 repeating Isaiah and Jesus for a third and final time. Israel had 40 years of grace to change there minds. They did not . Everything written up until then was based on that repentance coming forth .It did not.
The Gospel passages you use can be shown to have an element of conditionality in them but I have no credentials to speak of it but it is out there . Ask and you will receive.
I’ll leave you with this read the Parable of the wedding feast Matt 22:1-14. Verse seven describes 70 AD and after that the wedding but the dinner guests must have the correct clothes.
Don’t be caught without those clothes. Read Paul’s prison epistles :be clothed to be accepted.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is why I stopped coming to the discussion forums a few months ago. People will not accept what the Scripture says without trying to bend it to their paradigm.

Very true. But all you can do is present the truth. Those who twist the truth will give account.

 

[delirious]

lol, I think that like a few post back you realized the disciples didn't understand the second coming in Matt.24 and you had an ah! ha! moment eventually youll read all of wars 2 and it will dawn on you that the Jews didn't worship Rome or Ceaser and you'll have another ah! ha! moment.

I know that the Jews hated the Romans and the Christians and anybody else who was not them. I agree with you there. What I am disputing is your application of Rev 13.

Rev 13: 7-8, "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. "

These verses say that everyone who is not a Christian is worshiping the beast and Satan.

Remember that Jesus said of the Jewish leaders that their father was the devil. Yet the Jews couldn't stand the Roman pagan images and other idolatries and fought against those things vigorously. Yet Jesus said their father was still the devil.

Revelation is an apocalyptic book and if someone takes the MotB and the buying and selling as literal/physical phenomena, when the book says in the first verse (Rev 1: 1) that it is encoded in signs, then I think they are reading it wrong. The seal on the servants of God's forehead is not literal. So why insist that the MotB is literal? And if the MotB is not literal, then neither is the buying and selling.

Now if you don't think Revelation took place in 70 A.D. that would be a different matter but I was under the impression you did.

 

[Absolutely]

Let me propose some possible solutions to the MotB and "buying and selling".

From my reading of Revelation it looks like whoever doesn't accept Jesus automatically receives the MotB and worships the beast. That would be all the apostate Jews and any unbelievers. They are contrasted with those who believe in Jesus and are sealed in Rev 14: 1.

As far as buying and selling goes, if you were a Christian, you don't "buy or sell" the stuff the world offers. You are about Jesus. You don't love the world or the things of the world. I think the buying and selling may have a spiritual application just like the MotB does. The whole thing is about who you worship. It's a spiritual thing and not a literal/physical buying and selling.

It's the book of Revelation and the first verse of the book tells you it is encoded in signs and symbols and don't take it too literally. I think you are doing that with the MotB and the buying and selling.

My recommendation would be don't throw out FP when it has dozens of clear verses that all point to the same time and fulfillment because of an obscure apocalyptic passage in Rev 13. That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

What say ye?

It is is a literal mark.
Since that seems to be true,play it out.
To spiritualize it is a judgement call.
To " literalize it" flows with beheading and merchants recognizing christians.
Besides it says the whole pop of earth takes it.
If it is spiritual, how are stupid demons and agents of the ac to arrest those without it?

 

[cv5]

I already answered in my previous post that the prophecy was fulfilled in Ezra 5 & 6. All you have to do is read the chapters and see that God provides the gold, silver and sacrifices for the 2nd temple that Joshua and Zerubbabel were rebuilding. That's why Haggai 2: 8 says the gold and silver is mine.

It was fulfilled "in a little while" which was almost immediately after the prophecy was given. God knows how to tell time.

Haggai 2: 9 is about Jesus. He is the temple that far surpasses any earthly temple. He is the One who gives peace. That's why the writer of Hebrews quotes it in Chapter 12. Haggai 2: 9 has nothing to do with "the little while".

I don't care whether you agree. You are simply wrong.

I remember in previous posts on this website how rude and arrogant you were. When you post things like this:



Then you don't care about dialogue but just being a jerk.

God bless you in your search for truth. You are on my ignore list now.

Remember to concatenate the Third Temple with the Second Regathering of Israel both of which occur at the End of the Age.....the end time chronological window in quick succession.

The futurist view is unquestionably the correct one, as it ties up all phophetical loose ends.

 

[Absolutely]

lol, I think that like a few post back you realized the disciples didn't understand the second coming in Matt.24 and you had an ah! ha! moment eventually youll read all of wars 2 and it will dawn on you that the Jews didn't worship Rome or Ceaser and you'll have another ah! ha! moment.

I was hoping you were going there. I finally skipped to the end of that link and came to the same conclusion.

That seems to drop a bomb on preterism.

 

[Absolutely]

I know that the Jews hated the Romans and the Christians and anybody else who was not them. I agree with you there. What I am disputing is your application of Rev 13.

Rev 13: 7-8, "It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation. 8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. "

These verses say that everyone who is not a Christian is worshiping the beast and Satan.

Remember that Jesus said of the Jewish leaders that their father was the devil. Yet the Jews couldn't stand the Roman pagan images and other idolatries and fought against those things vigorously. Yet Jesus said their father was still the devil.

Revelation is an apocalyptic book and if someone takes the MotB and the buying and selling as literal/physical phenomena, when the book says in the first verse (Rev 1: 1) that it is encoded in signs, then I think they are reading it wrong. The seal on the servants of God's forehead is not literal. So why insist that the MotB is literal? And if the MotB is not literal, then neither is the buying and selling.

Now if you don't think Revelation took place in 70 A.D. that would be a different matter but I was under the impression you did.

It was written after ad70.

 

[cv5]

It is is a literal mark.
Since that seems to be true,play it out.
To spiritualize it is a judgement call.
To " literalize it" flows with beheading and merchants recognizing christians.
Besides it says the whole pop of earth takes it.
If it is spiritual, how are stupid demons and agents of the ac to arrest those without it?

When it speaks of the tribulation Saints beheadings is this spiritally symbolic or allegorical? Or literal?

 

[delirious]

lol, I think that like a few post back you realized the disciples didn't understand the second coming in Matt.24 and you had an ah! ha! moment eventually youll read all of wars 2 and it will dawn on you that the Jews didn't worship Rome or Ceaser and you'll have another ah! ha! moment.

Here are a few examples I wanted to point out that I am sure you will agree with:

The seven headed & ten horned beast in the shape of a dragon is not literal.
The woman riding on a beast is not literal.
A lamb standing as if it had been slain is not literal.
The stars falling from heaven is not literal.
The earthquake, mountains, heavens receding like a scroll are not literal.
Tons more examples I could give...

I think you get where I'm going with this. Revelation is full of these symbols that represent spiritual realities.

If the Seal is a spiritual mark on the foreheads of God's servants in Rev 14: 1, and this is contrasted with the MotB in the previous verses (Rev 13: 16-18), then I think it is safe to say that the MotB is not literal.

If the MotB is not literal, neither is the buying and selling.

 

[Locutus]

Josephus gives us some good insights into the war but to rely on him to give insight into John's statement I think is going down the wrong road. And trying to reconcile the two is a futile in my opinion.

 

[delirious]

I was hoping you were going there. I finally skipped to the end of that link and came to the same conclusion. That seems to drop a bomb on preterism.

That doesn't affect preterism at all. Not sure why you think it does.

 

[Absolutely]

Very true. But all you can do is present the truth. Those who twist the truth will give account.

Yep
I try to go concept vs concept,but sometimes go personal like we all do.

Feelings get hurt.
Love considers others hurt and feelings.

I really have to watch that and envy those that are kind.
It seems to be an art. I am a shop owner and somewhat socially retarded,but doing better in my old age.

 

[Absolutely]

When it speaks of the tribulation Saints beheadings is this spiritally symbolic or allegorical? Or literal?

Saints beheaded is literal.
As is the mark
I believe the revival of tatoos is a birth pang to the coming motb.
Man worship is another birthpang as is persecution of believers.

 

[Locutus]

It was written after ad70.

You can't definitively state that, it's presumptuous at best - John's vision describes the temple as being still standing when he wrote:

Rev 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

42 months is the length of the war of 66-70AD - Jesus said the "treading" would be within his generation:

Luke 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Luke 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Hevosmies]

Its the book of REVELATION. Not the book of confusion and letsguesswhathappenedsymbolicallyinthe1stcentury


If it says third of fish die, then I take that to mean third of fish die. That way, I can see when its fulfilled.

As to the symbols in the book of Revelation, yes there are plenty, but we are also told what they mean!
ITS CLEAR.
The ten horned beast is symbolic, but it is literal, it represents what? RULERS

The symbols are not that difficult to figure out, dont let anyone fool you into thinking we cant know what anything means. Look up the cross-references to the book of Daniel, very informative.

delirious even said the earthquake is not literal? thats a delirious statement! WHAT ON EARTH does the earthquake symbolize? You just have to make it up as you go along, it cant mean a huge earthquake, because there were none during the 70AD siege, it doesnt fit your narrative so you got to change it.

Oy vey!

 

[cv5]

The clear unequivocal prophecies pertaining to the Second Regathering of Israel (which definitely has not yet happened) absolutely precludes any notion of the preterist interpretation.

The futurist view is undoubtedly correct....

 

[cv5]

Its the book of REVELATION. Not the book of confusion and letsguesswhathappenedsymbolicallyinthe1stcentury


If it says third of fish die, then I take that to mean third of fish die. That way, I can see when its fulfilled.

As to the symbols in the book of Revelation, yes there are plenty, but we are also told what they mean!
ITS CLEAR.
The ten horned beast is symbolic, but it is literal, it represents what? RULERS

The symbols are not that difficult to figure out, dont let anyone fool you into thinking we cant know what anything means. Look up the cross-references to the book of Daniel, very informative.

delirious even said the earthquake is not literal? thats a delirious statement! WHAT ON EARTH does the earthquake symbolize? You just have to make it up as you go along, it cant mean a huge earthquake, because there were none during the 70AD siege, it doesnt fit your narrative so you got to change it.

Oy vey!

Well spoken....again!