How could it have nothing to do with Catholicism when they make the same argument about works of the law and good works? Other works-salvationists make the same argument that we are saved by "these" works and just not "those" works and here is an example below from a statement made by someone who attends the church of Christ:
"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."
The N.T. speaks against works in general AS THE BASIS OR MEANS BY WHICH WE RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and NOT based on the merits of our works. Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. So works are not merely limited to specific works of the law, but works in general and you cannot dissect good works from the law (Matthew 22:37-40)
This covers everything. Which good works are "completely detached" from loving God and our neighbor as ourself? The bases are all covered.
When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So please explain to me, which good works could a Christian do which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).
I'm not speaking against good works as the FRUIT of salvation, but only as the ROOT of salvation. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). You are still hung up on type 2 works salvation.
"It is works of obedience that help to save us and not works of the law or works of merit."
The N.T. speaks against works in general AS THE BASIS OR MEANS BY WHICH WE RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE. Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and NOT based on the merits of our works. Titus 3:5 - not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. 2 Timothy 1:9 - who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began. So works are not merely limited to specific works of the law, but works in general and you cannot dissect good works from the law (Matthew 22:37-40)
This covers everything. Which good works are "completely detached" from loving God and our neighbor as ourself? The bases are all covered.
When it comes to the moral aspect of the law, you cannot dissect good works from the law. In James 2:15-16, the example of a "work" that James gives is: "If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit?" To give a brother or sister these things needed for the body would certainly be a "good work" yet to neglect such a brother or sister and not give them the things needed for the body is to break the second great commandment "love your neighbor as yourself" (Matthew 22:39) as found written in the law of Moses (Leviticus 19:18).
In Matthew 22:37-40, we read: Jesus said to him, 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. So please explain to me, which good works could a Christian do which are "completely detached" from these two great commandments which are found in the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 6:5; Leviticus 19:18).
I'm not speaking against good works as the FRUIT of salvation, but only as the ROOT of salvation. We are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works (Ephesians 2:8-10). You are still hung up on type 2 works salvation.
You keep saying that works do not save.
I AGREE.
Then you say that works are the fruit of salvation.
I'm not hung up on anything....
Why don't you reply to that long list of verses I posted?
They are to BELIEVERS.
Are we supposed to obey God or not?
Easy yes or no question.
Also, I feel we need to stop speaking about the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST.
Jesus FINISHED HIS work.....that doesn't mean YOU need do nothing.
He did what He was supposed to do,,,,now it's up to us.
This is accomplished by the sanctification of our spirit and thus our soul,,,since our spirit affects our soul.
We must cooperate with Godi in this process. It is not ONLY up to GOD, but also our cooperation:
2 Thessalonians 2:13-14
God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Without sanctification, no one will see the Lord.
Hebrews 12:14:
“Pursue peace with all people, and sanctification, without which no one will see the Lord.”
I'd say that works of obedience
do not HELP to save us....they are proof of our salvation.
If we do not demonstrate any works,,we most probably are not saved.
These are the visible effects of the Holy Spirit:
Galatians 5.22.....
- Faithfulness
- Self-Control
- Patience
- Goodness
- Gentleness
- Joy
- Kindness
- Peace
- Love
I say no. And Paul would agree or he would not have written the above verse.
Again,,,,you post Titus 3:5...it's painfully apparent to me that there is some confusion as to Justification and Sanctification. If one loses their sanctification, by default, they also lose their justification.
Could we at least agree on the difference between the two?
You insist on talking about Justification....and I'm on to Sanctification.
How many times must you be born from above? Once. Done. Now move on.
Yes. I can dissect good works from the Law. Must I post all those verses again?
They're written to BELIVIERS. Beliviers are already saved and do not need to be saved again every time they sin. (they need only feel sorry and ask forgiveness).
Works of the Law are in the MOSAIC COVENANT. Are you familiar with it?
We are not in the Mosaic Covenant but in the New Covenant...Are you familiar with it?
If yes, then please tell us the difference since Jesus said he did not come to abolish the Law...but to make it MORE DIFFICULT.
Mathew 5.........
Clothing the naked is the commandment, as you've stated.
So? I don't understand your point.
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD.....
Yes. It's in Leviticus...Jesus was well-trained in the O.T.
So???? FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD. THIS is the whole point.
How are works not necessary if Jesus Himself said so?
The Two Great Commandments cover all the 9/10.
No problem there....I spent years teaching this to kids.
I don't understand your point.....
Are we to do good deeds or not?
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