Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

oh boy...

The issue is that of repentance of sin, that you speak of....Our repentance was of "dead works" of self-righteousness not of sin.
Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,


......also you completely miss Hebrews 6:4-6 Dcon explained it correctly

There was a once only repentance, as shown in Heb 6:4-6.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Keep reading, they were trying to make Jesus like the ritual sacrifices like they did in the Temple.

The author is stating it is one time conversion, you do not try to repeat it if you fall away to the law......what you do is you stop trying to go back and move on to maturity.

i never called JESUS a liar, what are you talking about?

and what am i gonna pay for? i repented of my sins and asked Jesus in my heart when i was 18, so according to you i'm heaven bound with the hammer down and i couldn't go to HELL even if i wanted to (according to your doctrine)


yes he did but what does that have to do with the prodigal son? the prodigal son didnt "WANDER" off
there is a big difference in someone "wandering" away and someone packing his stuff and "lEAVING" which by the way, i have never said that i believe you can lose your salvation, but you can leave your salvation


dont cherry pick Hebrews 6 look at it closely
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

the word "crucify" is a present tense verb meaning its something they are doing presently

its simple, if your sinning (presently) stop and repent and he is faithful and just to forgive but it is impossible to be renewed if you chose to stay in your sin and crucify (not crucified) God afresh......

 

[Goodnewsman]

Um, they don't start out as sons!

In the parable, the Prodigal started as a son, went away as a son, and came back as a son.

They whole point to the story is one can indeed wander away from God and yet will always remain His child.

The Bible says we are not children of God by creation, only by adoption.

the logical contradictory of birth is not unbirth, but death.

A child may die. "Adam . . . was the son of God" (Luke 3:38), yet God said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17).

Of course, false security was offered, even in the Garden, for the serpent assured the woman, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4).

It is argued that the prodigal wasting his substance with harlots and in riotous living was still a son. But Jesus said he was dead, and lost (Luke 15:24, 32).

Luke 15:24 (KJV)
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luke 15:32 (KJV)
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Is a dead son and a lost son any better off than no son at all?

 

[dcontroversal]

i never called JESUS a liar, what are you talking about?

and what am i gonna pay for? i repented of my sins and asked Jesus in my heart when i was 18, so according to you i'm heaven bound with the hammer down and i couldn't go to HELL even if i wanted to (according to your doctrine)


yes he did but what does that have to do with the prodigal son? the prodigal son didnt "WANDER" off
there is a big difference in someone "wandering" away and someone packing his stuff and "lEAVING" which by the way, i have never said that i believe you can lose your salvation, but you can leave your salvation


dont cherry pick Hebrews 6 look at it closely
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

the word "crucify" is a present tense verb meaning its something they are doing presently

its simple, if your sinning (presently) stop and repent and he is faithful and just to forgive but it is impossible to be renewed if you chose to stay in your sin and crucify (not crucified) God afresh......

I suggest you study more and pay attention to the context of the whole book....the verses you cite prove salvation cannot be lost......nice try though....same old dry false argument.....

 

[Chester]

dont cherry pick Hebrews 6 look at it closely
Hebrews 6:4-6 (KJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

the word "crucify" is a present tense verb meaning its something they are doing presently

its simple, if your sinning (presently) stop and repent and he is faithful and just to forgive but it is impossible to be renewed if you chose to stay in your sin and crucify (not crucified) God afresh......

Wonderful! Right on in interpreting Isaiah 6:4-6! It is quite simple if you let the text speak for itself without bringing preconceived ideas.

 

[dcontroversal]

you better hope your "once a son, always a son" is not true: let us balance scripture with scripture

this metaphor wont work. It proves that we can never be saved in the first place, for we are all born "children of wrath"

Ephesians 2:3 (KJV)
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

1 John 3:10 (KJV)
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If once born into a family we could never cease to be children of that family, then we must always be children of disobedience. according to YOU

False again...................we are already dead in sins and trespasses....obviously you have no concept of being BORN again from above by incorruptible SEED which makes a SON OF GOD........your false dichotomy is not working pal......

 

[dcontroversal]

oh boy...

The issue is that of repentance of sin, that you speak of....Our repentance was of "dead works" of self-righteousness not of sin.
Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,


......also you completely miss Hebrews 6:4-6 Dcon explained it correctly

There was a once only repentance, as shown in Heb 6:4-6.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Keep reading, they were trying to make Jesus like the ritual sacrifices like they did in the Temple.

The author is stating it is one time conversion, you do not try to repeat it if you fall away to the law......what you do is you stop trying to go back and move on to maturity.

You believe these Pharisees, Cainologists and workers for.....next they will be saying that women are saved by having kids........

 

[dcontroversal]

Wonderful! Right on in interpreting Isaiah 6:4-6! It is quite simple if you let the text speak for itself without bringing preconceived ideas.

Chester shoots and misses by a mile.................no..he did not interpret HEBREWS correctly.........

 

[Goodnewsman]

oh boy...

The issue is that of repentance of sin, that you speak of....Our repentance was of "dead works" of self-righteousness not of sin.
Heb 6:1
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God,


......also you completely miss Hebrews 6:4-6 Dcon explained it correctly

There was a once only repentance, as shown in Heb 6:4-6.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Keep reading, they were trying to make Jesus like the ritual sacrifices like they did in the Temple.

The author is stating it is one time conversion, you do not try to repeat it if you fall away to the law......what you do is you stop trying to go back and move on to maturity.

you really think the word "once" in heb 6 means one time conversion?

once--(definition) at some time in the past

 

[dcontroversal]

the logical contradictory of birth is not unbirth, but death.

A child may die. "Adam . . . was the son of God" (Luke 3:38), yet God said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17).

Of course, false security was offered, even in the Garden, for the serpent assured the woman, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4).

It is argued that the prodigal wasting his substance with harlots and in riotous living was still a son. But Jesus said he was dead, and lost (Luke 15:24, 32).

Luke 15:24 (KJV)
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luke 15:32 (KJV)
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Is a dead son and a lost son any better off than no son at all?

Wrong again.....conflating truth and false dichotomies will not = truth ever......no matter how much you attempt to squeeze it into the truth box....

 

[dcontroversal]

you really think the word "once" in heb 6 means one time conversion?

once--(definition) at some time in the past

She understands the context of Hebrews and the fact that it does not teach losable salvation..........but hey.......we expect this from those who must help JESUS keep themselves saved.......

 

[unclesilas]

the logical contradictory of birth is not unbirth, but death.

A child may die. "Adam . . . was the son of God" (Luke 3:38), yet God said, "In the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17).

Of course, false security was offered, even in the Garden, for the serpent assured the woman, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4).

It is argued that the prodigal wasting his substance with harlots and in riotous living was still a son. But Jesus said he was dead, and lost (Luke 15:24, 32).

Luke 15:24 (KJV)
24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

Luke 15:32 (KJV)
32 It was meet that we should make merry, and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive again; and was lost, and is found.

Is a dead son and a lost son any better off than no son at all?

One thing you can always rely on, on the internet, people explaining away the plainly written word.
Many different people go to church, and make confessions of faith, some do indeed walk away, and others do not. The question is, were those who walked away ever placed in a saved state? Scripture shows us they were, though they may not have had the personal salvational experience that will always keep them saved. People who Jesus said would never be lost.
A man once said: Sin will not bar you from heaven, but losing your faith will. That made me think much

 

[dcontroversal]

The workers for bible version.....

He that believes on the Son might be saved as long as he does many wonderful works, never sins, and sings 47 verses of amazing grace

 

[Goodnewsman]

I suggest you study more and pay attention to the context of the whole book....the verses you cite prove salvation cannot be lost......nice try though....same old dry false argument.....

is that how you convince people? when someone shows you plainly what scripture says just dismiss it and call it dry and false

 

[dcontroversal]

One thing you can always rely on, on the internet, people explaining away the plainly written word.
Many different people go to church, and make confessions of faith, some do indeed walk away, and others do not. The question is, were those who walked away ever placed in a saved state? Scripture shows us they were, though they may not have had the personal salvational experience that will always keep them saved. People who Jesus said would never be lost.
A man once said: Sin will not bar you from heaven, but losing your faith will. That made me think much

And he was wrong.........so tell me....

Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith he begins in us.

If the bolded is true, what does that say about Christ?

 

[dcontroversal]

is that how you convince people? when someone shows you plainly what scripture says just dismiss it and call it dry and false

All you showed me was the same false interpretation of Hebrews..........I can tell you....trying to get me to accept a false interpretation of scripture will not convince me of your personal truth.......

 

[Goodnewsman]

The workers for bible version.....

He that believes on the Son might be saved as long as he does many wonderful works, never sins, and sings 47 verses of amazing grace

actually lets see what the BIBLE says after all thats what matters:
Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

endureth---(strongs)
to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figurative to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere :- abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

 

[unclesilas]

And he was wrong.........so tell me....

Jesus begins, finishes and completes the work of faith he begins in us.

If the bolded is true, what does that say about Christ?

I believe in the baptism of the holy spirit(I guess you do not) Anyway, in the church I grew up in, they believed it was impossible to be baptised in the Holy Spirit if you smoked. I then smoked, but got baptised in the Spirit. The point being, God will accept you, and bless you, by taking you at your word. And he will place you in a saved state even if he knows you did not make a full commitment to his son that will last.
Im sure you will disagree, however, you have no choice but to try and explain away very plainly written scripture by doing so. And a lot of it. I prefer not to do gymnastics with the plainly written word. Some have certainty of heaven, but some do not

 

[dcontroversal]

Nonewsman's view....

Jesus said, I will always leave you and forsake you if you fail to tow the line.

He that believes on the SON is not condemned unless he sins or loses faith because JESUS does not finish and complete that which he began

He that believes on the SON is having temporary life based upon his performance.

 

[UnderGrace]

you really think the word "once" in heb 6 means one time conversion?

once--(definition) at some time in the past

If you do not understand and know that conversion, regeneration, redemption, adoption, being born again, justified and positionally sanctified is a one time event I have to wonder what Bible are you reading?

 

[UnderGrace]

actually lets see what the BIBLE says after all thats what matters:
Matthew 10:22 (KJV)
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

endureth---(strongs)
to stay under (behind), i.e. remain; figurative to undergo, i.e. bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere :- abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind.
Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.

Context!!!