Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

[unclesilas]

You need to grasp the basics of the law.

Those who work at the law ARE under its condemnation.

The Lord Jesus died for our sins so we would turn to HIM and not to our works of the law.

A person doesn't really believe in the Lord if they are working at the law.

In the real world sin is condemnation. To be conscious of sin is to be conscious of condemnation.

A person is conscious of condemnation when they turn to their carnal self. When a person abides in Christ there is NO CONDEMNATION.


Romans 8:1-6
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

What does the carnal mind do? Works at the 10 commandments. The law of sin and death.

What does the Spiritually minded do? Abides in Christ. The Spirit of Life and peace.

The believer does not work at the law in order not to be under its condemnation.
God did not have to abolish the law in order to end condemnation under it. He sent his son to die for all believers sins, their transgressions of the law.
I will repeat this again. There is no condemnation for the believer who has the law in their hearts and minds for they have a saviour who died for all their transgressions of the law. This is(or should be) basic Christianity for the believer

 

[PS]

The 10 commandments aren't done away. They just aren't for the Christian. And they AREN'T written on the Christians Heart.

The 10 commandments are for those who have not come to Christ.

So Christ never gave Christians a further fifty commandments, and he forgot to include them in "the epistle of Christ that is written on our hearts?"

1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Commands/index.htm

 

[Grandpa]

The believer does not work at the law in order not to be under its condemnation.
God did not have to abolish the law in order to end condemnation under it. He sent his son to die for all believers sins, their transgressions of the law.
I will repeat this again. There is no condemnation for the believer who has the law in their hearts and minds for they have a saviour who died for all their transgressions of the law. This is(or should be) basic Christianity for the believer

If the 10 commandments are what is written on your heart then it is condemnation that is written on your heart.

Plain and simple.

If what is written on your heart causes you to be conscious of sin then that is condemnation.

That is what the 10 commandments do. That is WHY they are the ministry of death and condemnation. Because they point out sin. And therefore death.


There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Because they have been freed from the law of sin and death. Because Righteousness and Life has been written on their hearts.

The 10 commandments don't cause anyone to be Righteous. Not even those who believe they can still work at it with no consequences...

 

[unclesilas]

So Christ never gave Christians a further fifty commandments, and he forgot to include them in "the epistle of Christ that is written on our hearts?"

1. Repent—Matthew 4:17, Luke 13:3
2. Let not your heart be troubled—John 14:27, John 16:33, Matthew 6:25-26, Philippians 4:6-7
3. Follow me—Matthew 4:19
4. Rejoice—Matthew 5:12, (Also 2 Corinthians 6:10, 12:10, James 1:2-4)
5. Let your light shine—Matthew 5:16
6. Honor God’s law—Matthew 5:17-19
7. Be reconciled—Matthew 5:24-25
8. Do not commit adultery—Matthew 5:27-30
9. Keep your word—Matthew 5:33-37
10. Go the second mile—Matthew 5:38-42
11. Love your enemies—Matthew 5:44
12. Be perfect—Matthew 5:48
13. Practice secret disciplines (giving, praying, fasting)—Matthew 6:1-18
14. Lay up treasures in heaven—Matthew 6:19-21
15. Seek first the kingdom of God—Matthew 6:33
16. Judge not—Matthew 7:1-2
17. Do not throw your pearls to pigs—Matthew 7:6
18. Ask, seek, and knock—Matthew 7:7-8
19. Do unto others—Matthew 7:12
20. Choose the narrow way—Matthew 7:13-14
21. Beware of false prophets—Matthew 7:15
22. Pray for those who spread the word—Matthew 9:37-38
23. Be as shrewd as serpents—Matthew 10:16. (Also Romans 16:19)
24. Fear God. Do not fear man— Matthew 10:28 (Also Luke 12:4-5)
25. Listen to God’s voice—Matthew 11:15, 13:9, 13:43, Mark 4:23, Luke 14:35, 1 Kings 19:11-13
26.Take my yoke—Matthew 11:29
27. Honor your parents—Matthew 15:4
28. Beware of false teaching—Matthew 16:6, 11-12
29. Deny yourself—Luke 9:23 (Also Matthew 10:38 and Mark 8:34)
30. Do not despise little ones—Matthew 18:10
31. Go to Christians who offend you—Matthew 8:15 (Also Galatians 6:1)
32. Forgive offenders—Matthew 18:21-22 (Also Proverbs 19:11)
33. Beware of covetousness—Luke 12:15
34. Honor marriage—Matthew 19:6, 19:9
35. Lead by being a servant—Matthew 20:26-28
36. Make the church a house of prayer for all nations—Mark 11:17
37. Pray in faith—Matthew 21:21-22, John 15:7
38. Bring in the poor—Luke 14:12-14
39. Render unto Caesar—Matthew 22:19-21
40. Love the Lord—Matthew 22:37-38
41. Love your neighbor—Matthew 22:39
42. Be born again—John 3:7
43. Await my return—Matthew 24:42-44
44. Celebrate the Lord’s supper—Matthew 26:26-
45. Watch and pray—Matthew 26:41
46. Keep my commandments—John 14:15
47. Feed my sheep—John 21:15-16
48. Make and baptize disciples—Matthew 28:19
49. Teach disciples to obey—Matthew 28:20
50. Receive God’s power—Luke 24:49

http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Bible/Commands/index.htm

One could say, if the ten commandments are abolished, on the basis they bring condemnation, then Christs commands in the gospels must also be abolished, for they are to a far higher standard than what was written in stone

 

[PS]

Its so simple really

1) The law did not have to be abolished in order to end it being the ministry of death and condemnation/the letter that kills. Jesus died for ALL a believers sins. Therefore, everytime they transgress the law in their hearts, they cannot be condemned for doing so, for the price has been paid for that sin and every other one too.

2) One of the most basic biblical facts is: Through the law we become conscious of sin Romans3:20 You can only be conscious of sin through the law. In the real world, and away from rather strange theology in some peoples minds, if a believer stole, committed adultery, coveted, took the Lords name in vain they would be conscious of sin by doing so. So that law must be in their heart and mind.

3) The law in your heart, simply means in your heart you want to live according to that law, in your heart you do not want to bear false witness, murder, commit adultery, steal, covet. I can only repeat, you wanting not to do those things in your heart cannot bring condemnation to you when you slip up concerningthem, for, Jesus died for all your sins, transgressions of that law. Under the old covenant, where the law was written on stone, they had no saviour who had died for all their sins, therefore, the law written on stone was the ministry of death and condemnation/the letter that kills. And a law written on stone was abolished for the believer.

4) Under the new covenant, Jesus died for all your sins/transgressions of the law, and by doing that he removed the true power of sin from your life. So the believer, who in their heart wants to live as God desires them to live(for that is where the law has been placed) can now see this come to fruition. For the power of sin has been removed from them, if they trust and believe Jesus is their rightstanding before the Father, he died for all their sins, and therefore ended the laws ability to bring condemnation under it. In this sense, those who accept this covenant, are a letter-or Epistle from Christ, the result of the true ministry, a ministry where the law is not written on stone but tablets of human hearts, with the true power of sin removed from the believer, which brings victory in their lives, and obedience. A true letter from Christ. Victory over sin by the covenant he died to usher in

So no judgement for Christians then?

 

[unclesilas]

If the 10 commandments are what is written on your heart then it is condemnation that is written on your heart.

Plain and simple.

If what is written on your heart causes you to be conscious of sin then that is condemnation.

That is what the 10 commandments do. That is WHY they are the ministry of death and condemnation. Because they point out sin. And therefore death.


There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Because they have been freed from the law of sin and death. Because Righteousness and Life has been written on their hearts.

The 10 commandments don't cause anyone to be Righteous. Not even those who believe they can still work at it with no consequences...

Where have I said anything written in the ten commandments makes a person righteous?
Let me write this in emboldened for you seem unable to grasp the simplicity of it
law in your heart cannot bring condemnation to you, for Jesus died for all your transgressions of it.

 

[PS]

One could say, if the ten commandments are abolished, on the basis they bring condemnation, then Christs commands in the gospels must also be abolished, for they are to a far higher standard than what was written in stone

You could say that, but please don't tell Jesus we do not have to follow Him in all things, and we only have to follow him in the things we like.

 

[unclesilas]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]

17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.

So you get law, it is in your heart and mind. Which law? Anything that makes you conscious of sin you could do, for: Through the law we become conscious of sin Romans3:20
However, though you have law, your sins and lawless deeds/transgression of the law will be remembered no more. Why not? Because Jesus died for all your sins/transgressions of the law in your heart and mind. no condemnation through that law

 

[PS]

This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”[b]

17 Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.

So you get law, it is in your heart and mind. Which law? Anything that makes you conscious of sin you could do, for: Through the law we become conscious of sin Romans3:20
However, though you have law, your sins and lawless deeds/transgression of the law will be remembered no more. Why not? Because Jesus died for all your sins/transgressions of the law in your heart and mind. no condemnation through that law

Spot on.

 

[unclesilas]

So no judgement for Christians then?

For reward, for what you have done on earth, eternity, for the truly born again believer, who has surrendered their life to Christ is a done deal.
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

 

[PS]

For reward, for what you have done on earth, eternity, for the truly born again believer, who has surrendered their life to Christ is a done deal.
Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. John 5:24

You know your Bible. Blessings to you.

 

[unclesilas]

You know your Bible. Blessings to you.

Thank you for your gracious words. You know your bible also. God bless

 

[Grandpa]

Where have I said anything written in the ten commandments makes a person righteous?
Let me write this in emboldened for you seem unable to grasp the simplicity of it
law in your heart cannot bring condemnation to you, for Jesus died for all your transgressions of it.

Didn't you say that the law in YOUR heart points out sin?

You know sin condemns you, right?

The Law in MY heart doesn't bring condemnation to me because it isn't the 10 commandments. The law in my heart is Righteousness and Life.

It does help me to see that it is this Righteousness and Life that fulfills the 10 commandments. I don't work at the 10 commandments. I abide in Christ where all my blessings are. That takes care of ALL of my righteousness. So even the 10 commandments can't condemn me.

 

[unclesilas]

Didn't you say that the law in YOUR heart points out sin?

You know sin condemns you, right?

The Law in MY heart doesn't bring condemnation to me because it isn't the 10 commandments. The law in my heart is Righteousness and Life.

It does help me to see that it is this Righteousness and Life that fulfills the 10 commandments. I don't work at the 10 commandments. I abide in Christ where all my blessings are. That takes care of ALL of my righteousness. So even the 10 commandments can't condemn me.

Well although you haven't responded to any of my other points, hopefully you will feel able to respond to this question. Why did Jesus die on the cross?

 

[PS]

After posting this on another thread, I feel it is equally relevant here. I look on my own walk with Christ like this. First I become aware of my sin, then I turned to Christ in faith believing in the precious blood of the lamb and was redeemed. Thirdly, with Christ in my life I began to see the product of my faith in my daily life as mentioned in James 2:17, which briefly is to look after the poor, love your neighbour, celebrate the Lord's Supper, feed my sheep, etc. etc. there are many more. Although these are often spoken of as 'commandments' that may be the wrong word, guidelines would be better for those who are actively following Christ as his disciple, by being guided into paths of righteousness, in which there is no condemnation, for we have already been redeemed from the curse of the law. (Gal_3:13)

Just my thoughts, may God bless one and all.

 

[Grandpa]

Well although you haven't responded to any of my other points, hopefully you will feel able to respond to this question. Why did Jesus die on the cross?

Good question.

The Lord Jesus was the unblemished Lamb of God. His sacrifice atoned for our sin.

For those who believe in Him. For those who don't believe in Him their sin stands.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[unclesilas]

Good question.

The Lord Jesus was the unblemished Lamb of God. His sacrifice atoned for our sin.

For those who believe in Him. For those who don't believe in Him their sin stands.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Good. Christ atoned for our sin. For those who do not believe in him their sin stands. Amen.
So Christians are not condemned for their imperfections/sin concerning law in their hearts and minds.

 

[Grandpa]

Good. Christ atoned for our sin. For those who do not believe in him their sin stands. Amen.
So Christians are not condemned for their imperfections/sin concerning law in their hearts and minds.

Everyone is condemned by the 10 commandments. That is the whole point of the 10 commandments.

They are to bring you to Christ so you can be set free from that condemnation.

This is spiritually discerned and is the reason we must come to Christ as little children. Not thinking we have wisdom and strength in ourselves but are completely reliant and needy of His Strength and Wisdom and Righteousness.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

A person can't be set free from something that is written on their hearts and minds by God.

That's why it isn't the 10 commandments that are written on our hearts and minds. It is only the misunderstanding and mis-interpretation of scripture and possible legalist agenda that causes someone to claim Christianity and teach that the 10 commandments are written on the Christians heart.

This is so simple for the Christian that it is almost dumb to have to even explain.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Isn't it ABUNDANTLY obvious that the Ministration of Death written and engraven in stones is NOT written on the Christians Heart?

I suppose to some it must be. And these are the ones I continuously point this out to so that the (un?)intended condemnation of legalists does not bear down on the Christian or the ones who are trying to figure out what real Christianity is.

 

[unclesilas]

Everyone is condemned by the 10 commandments. That is the whole point of the 10 commandments.

They are to bring you to Christ so you can be set free from that condemnation.

This is spiritually discerned and is the reason we must come to Christ as little children. Not thinking we have wisdom and strength in ourselves but are completely reliant and needy of His Strength and Wisdom and Righteousness.

Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

A person can't be set free from something that is written on their hearts and minds by God.

That's why it isn't the 10 commandments that are written on our hearts and minds. It is only the misunderstanding and mis-interpretation of scripture and possible legalist agenda that causes someone to claim Christianity and teach that the 10 commandments are written on the Christians heart.

This is so simple for the Christian that it is almost dumb to have to even explain.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Isn't it ABUNDANTLY obvious that the Ministration of Death written and engraven in stones is NOT written on the Christians Heart?

I suppose to some it must be. And these are the ones I continuously point this out to so that the (un?)intended condemnation of legalists does not bear down on the Christian or the ones who are trying to figure out what real Christianity is.

But according to you, Christ is the atonement for believers sins. Something I agree with. So how can Jesus be the atonement of believers sins, but at the same time sinning against the ten commandments can condemn the believer?

 

[Grandpa]

But according to you, Christ is the atonement for believers sins. Something I agree with. So how can Jesus be the atonement of believers sins, but at the same time sinning against the ten commandments can condemn the believer?

How can a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ go back to their work at the 10 commandments to "check" to see if they are sinning or not??

If you are set free by the Lord Jesus Christ WHY would someone who believes in Christ then NOT believe they have been set free???

Either they don't understand what Christ has done for them or they purposely try to mix law with grace. I think for the most part people just can't believe the Grace that is in Christ. And I have to admit it is not easy.


Why did you not address your theory that the Ministry of Death is written on the believers heart by God?

If it is no longer the Ministry of Death after the DBR of Christ then why did Paul describe it as such?