Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same?

[PS]

Without textual or clear contextual support, it's an opinion only. I would suggest that it is actually an obfuscation, because it contradicts Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 3:10 and James 2:10-11.

Not a contradiction, Paul, in this passage, simply describes how things were before Christ, and how everything changed with His coming.

Gal 3:23
But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
24 So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers;
26 for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua.

 

[Grandpa]

Not a contradiction, Paul, in this passage, simply describes how things were before Christ, and how everything changed with His coming.

Gal 3:23
But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
24 So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers;
26 for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua.

The Lord Jesus absolutely did fulfill the Levitical law.

But the Levitical Law did not train us to come to Christ. How could sacrificing animals cause us to realize we need Christ instead of animal sacrifices?

The Levitical law with its sacrifices could not train someone to realize they didn't need sacrifices anymore. That makes absolutely no sense.

This is the worse translation of Galatians I think I have ever seen. And I've seen some bad translations.


Re-read Matthew 5 and you will see it is the 10 commandments that train us to realize that we need to Come to Christ because we can't be righteous before God by trying real hard to obey them.

How come legalists don't understand what they do to the bible in order to justify their work at the 10 commandments?


Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness was NEVER by animal sacrifice. Atonement was by animal sacrifice. Righteousness was by obedience to the 10 commandments in the OT.

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.


So, IF Paul was speaking about Levitical law in Galatians he would have said "if ATONEMENT come by the law". But Christians don't have a misunderstanding of where their Atonement comes from. That was never an issue. The issue Christians have had a misunderstanding with has ALWAYS been the 10 commandments.


I've never seen anyone try to twist Galatians like this. I've seen people try to twist Hebrews 7. But never Galatians.

 

[Dino246]

Not a contradiction, Paul, in this passage, simply describes how things were before Christ, and how everything changed with His coming.

Gal 3:23
But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
24 So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But since faith has come, we are no longer under trainers;
26 for you are all sons of YAHWEH through faith in Messiah Yahshua.

Fallacy: circular reasoning.

 

[PS]

The Lord Jesus absolutely did fulfill the Levitical law.

But the Levitical Law did not train us to come to Christ. How could sacrificing animals cause us to realize we need Christ instead of animal sacrifices?

The Levitical law with its sacrifices could not train someone to realize they didn't need sacrifices anymore. That makes absolutely no sense.

This is the worse translation of Galatians I think I have ever seen. And I've seen some bad translations.


Re-read Matthew 5 and you will see it is the 10 commandments that train us to realize that we need to Come to Christ because we can't be righteous before God by trying real hard to obey them.

How come legalists don't understand what they do to the bible in order to justify their work at the 10 commandments?


Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness was NEVER by animal sacrifice. Atonement was by animal sacrifice. Righteousness was by obedience to the 10 commandments in the OT.

Deuteronomy 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.


So, IF Paul was speaking about Levitical law in Galatians he would have said "if ATONEMENT come by the law". But Christians don't have a misunderstanding of where their Atonement comes from. That was never an issue. The issue Christians have had a misunderstanding with has ALWAYS been the 10 commandments.


I've never seen anyone try to twist Galatians like this. I've seen people try to twist Hebrews 7. But never Galatians.

The message is the same in all translations.

Gal 3:23-24 HRB
(23) But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
(24) So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 MKJV
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under Law, having been shut up to the faith about to be revealed.
(24) So that the Law has become a trainer of us until Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 Webster
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up to the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(24) Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 KJV
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 ESV+
(23) Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, R17imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
(24) So then, R18the law was our R19guardian until Christ came, R20in order that we might be justified by faith.

Cross references:
R17 1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

R18 Mt 5:17; Rom 10:4; Col 2:17; Heb 9:9-10.

R19 1Co 4:15 ERV You may have ten thousand teachers in Christ, but you don't have many fathers. Through the Good News I (Paul) became your father in Christ Jesus.

R20 Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

 

[Dino246]

The message is the same in all translations.

Gal 3:23-24 HRB
(23) But before the coming of faith, we were protected under Law, having been locked up to the faith being about to be revealed.
(24) So that the (Levitical) Law has become a trainer of us until Messiah, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 MKJV
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under Law, having been shut up to the faith about to be revealed.
(24) So that the Law has become a trainer of us until Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 Webster
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up to the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(24) Wherefore the law was our school-master to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 KJV
(23) But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
(24) Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Gal 3:23-24 ESV+
(23) Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, R17imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed.
(24) So then, R18the law was our R19guardian until Christ came, R20in order that we might be justified by faith.

Cross references:
R17 1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

R18 Mt 5:17; Rom 10:4; Col 2:17; Heb 9:9-10.

R19 1Co 4:15 ERV You may have ten thousand teachers in Christ, but you don't have many fathers. Through the Good News I (Paul) became your father in Christ Jesus.

R20 Gal 3:11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”

It amazes me that you don't see the difference. The added word, "Levitical" in the HRB changes the meaning of the text. It's a corruption, not a clarification.

You can argue it any way you like, but that word isn't in the text. It is clear from the context that Paul meant the entire Law, not merely Leviticus.

 

[PS]

It amazes me that you don't see the difference. The added word, "Levitical" in the HRB changes the meaning of the text. It's a corruption, not a clarification.

You can argue it any way you like, but that word isn't in the text. It is clear from the context that Paul meant the entire Law, not merely Leviticus.

Galatians 3:23-24 tells of the time before and after Christ when the vail was rent in two, after which time we can "come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Heb 4:16 KJV).

If I am reading you correctly, it seems you want to be rid of the Ten Commandments that form the basis of our civil law? If that is the case, please remember we need to be obedient to our earthly rulers also.

Romans 13:1-7
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same.

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed,

1 Peter 2:13-14
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

 

[Grandpa]

Galatians 3:23-24 tells of the time before and after Christ when the vail was rent in two, after which time we can "come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Heb 4:16 KJV).

If I am reading you correctly, it seems you want to be rid of the Ten Commandments that form the basis of our civil law? If that is the case, please remember we need to be obedient to our earthly rulers also.

Romans 13:1-7
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same.

1 Timothy 2:1-3
First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men, for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,

Titus 3:1
Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed,

1 Peter 2:13-14
Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority, or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.

Its not that anyone wants to be "rid" of the 10 commandments.

The point is we have been given rest from them. Those who have come to Christ.

There's a big difference between working at the 10 commandments and obeying civil law.

 

[Dino246]

Galatians 3:23-24 tells of the time before and after Christ when the vail was rent in two, after which time we can "come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." (Heb 4:16 KJV).

If I am reading you correctly, it seems you want to be rid of the Ten Commandments that form the basis of our civil law? If that is the case, please remember we need to be obedient to our earthly rulers also.

You aren't reading me correctly. Rather, you are engaging in the fallacy called "false dichotomy"; that is, thinking that there are only two possible paths: legalism or license.

... and the word is "veil", not "vail".

 

[PS]

You aren't reading me correctly. Rather, you are engaging in the fallacy called "false dichotomy"; that is, thinking that there are only two possible paths: legalism or license.

... and the word is "veil", not "vail".

Before Christ, they were under the law, those who accept Jesus as their Saviour and Lord are under grace.

 

[PS]

Its not that anyone wants to be "rid" of the 10 commandments.

The point is we have been given rest from them. Those who have come to Christ.

There's a big difference between working at the 10 commandments and obeying civil law.

I don't know if we have to 'work' at keeping the 10 commandments or obeying civil law. We simply do not 'do' anything to break them. We 'do not' murder or steal for example, so no 'work' is required. Whereas with the 613 Mitzvot Laws they had to work hard at keeping the law by making sacrifice and keeping the festivals for example.

 

[Dino246]

Before Christ, they were under the law, those who accept Jesus as their Saviour and Lord are under grace.

Your point?

 

[PS]

Your point?

You need to be more constructive. So far you have not contributed anything.

 

[PS]

Your point?

I will tell you what it means. It means that 2000 years ago God provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ and .Judaism with all its pomp, ceremony, rules and rituals ended.

Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (Joh 14:6) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)

 

[Dino246]

I will tell you what it means. It means that 2000 years ago God provided a way of salvation through Jesus Christ and .Judaism with all its pomp, ceremony, rules and rituals ended.

Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (Joh 14:6) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Rev 20:15)

Yes... I'm fully aware of that, and those two verses. You accuse me of contributing nothing. Is correction "nothing"? Check 2 Timothy 3:16-17 on that.

 

[PS]

Yes... I'm fully aware of that, and those two verses. You accuse me of contributing nothing. Is correction "nothing"? Check 2 Timothy 3:16-17 on that.

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 ESV)

Taking that to heart, follow it up with scripture that is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training and read Hebrews 9:11-28.

Lights out for me.

 

[Dino246]

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work. (2Ti 3:16-17 ESV)

Taking that to heart, follow it up with scripture that is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training and read Hebrews 9:11-28.

Lights out for me.

I think we're talking past each other.

 

[PS]

I think we're talking past each other.

This means Jesus was right when he said about the Jewish god in John 8:44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

In answer to this thread that asks, “Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same” the answer has to be no. Jews have to work at the law and regardless of how hard they work, they are always condemned.

While for Christians, God has forgiven our sins and paid the price which is death on our behalf. Jesus said, "Come unto me all ye that labour and I will give you rest." To which I say, Thank you Lord.

To those who say they are Christians but follow the Jewish traditions of the Old Testament, let me remind you that Jesus said, "No man can follow two masters."

 

[Grandpa]

This means Jesus was right when he said about the Jewish god in John 8:44 “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

In answer to this thread that asks, “Is the Jewish God and gentile God the same” the answer has to be no. Jews have to work at the law and regardless of how hard they work, they are always condemned.

While for Christians, God has forgiven our sins and paid the price which is death on our behalf. Jesus said, "Come unto me all ye that labour and I will give you rest." To which I say, Thank you Lord.

To those who say they are Christians but follow the Jewish traditions of the Old Testament, let me remind you that Jesus said, "No man can follow two masters."

But you say that you have to follow the 10 commandments.

Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? Saying one thing but doing another?

 

[PS]

But you say that you have to follow the 10 commandments.

Doesn't that make you a hypocrite? Saying one thing but doing another?

The 613 Mitzvot Laws include the death penalty for even quite minor offences, theft for example. The Ten Commandments say different, they say not to kill (murder). Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount went further, saying, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement: (22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Mat 5:21-22)

The Mitzvot Laws are the work of the tribe of Levi, while the Ten Commandments were given by God to Moses and ensure a safe world in which to live.

Jesus went even further in his government of grace and said we should not even call people fools. If we do we shall be judged on them, but in this life we shall live. The bottom line is that those who follow Jesus, will not come anywhere near to breaking the Ten Commandments. But, seeing as many people do not follow Jesus, perhaps it is as well to retain the Ten Commandments that are protective and life ensuring here on earth.

 

[Grandpa]

The 613 Mitzvot Laws include the death penalty for even quite minor offences, theft for example. The Ten Commandments say different, they say not to kill (murder). Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount went further, saying, "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgement: (22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgement: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." (Mat 5:21-22)

The Mitzvot Laws are the work of the tribe of Levi, while the Ten Commandments were given by God to Moses and ensure a safe world in which to live.

Jesus went even further in his government of grace and said we should not even call people fools. If we do we shall be judged on them, but in this life we shall live. The bottom line is that those who follow Jesus, will not come anywhere near to breaking the Ten Commandments. But, seeing as many people do not follow Jesus, perhaps it is as well to retain the Ten Commandments that are protective and life ensuring here on earth.

The 10 commandments don't say to not punish those who break the commandments.

Numbers 15:32-35
32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

Of course the penalty for blatantly breaking the commandments would be death. Ordered By God.

You may find the death penalty to be harsh for "minor" offenses, but perhaps God does not.