Following Paul To Follow Christ

[obedienttogod]

So, before His last minute of life on earth He had not yet completely fulfilled the Law, and therefore the law of Moses was in force throughout His earthly ministry.

Yeshua is God, so, His purpose was to be the required sacrificial Lamb. The spotless Lambs used for sins, never had real value towards anyone's salvation. But a true sacrifice, from a sinless Law abiding Lamb, would justify the requirements God needed for Salvation. And while in the process of that sacrifice, death would be conquered, the grave would be defeated, and the Adversary would no longer have the right to claim his position in this matter any more. And by through the Resurrection, a portal was made for the soul.

So the Death-Burial-Resurrection represents the fulfilling of the Law, by having a true spotless example of a LAMB who actually lived by the Law, and was found sinless to the Law. And then for the New Covenant, the Death-Burial-Resurrection fulfilled the necessary requirements for believers to conquer death, the grave, with the ability to be resurrected.

 

[NayborBear]

Paul was attempting in "leading BY example" in his saying/telling/teaching: "Follow ME, as I follow Christ!"
Paul was trying to "get the ball rolling", so to speak, in this brand new OUTREACH of the Father, if you will! As I imagine, "actions spoke louder then words", in those days, as well, as to-day!
Which actually isn't anything MORE, then what Jesus was striving in His teaching of the scribes and pharasee's, before His being Sacrificed, by His Father!

As for these one's of the "church/es of the Paulene Epistles", as I have come to call them. Having been more er less, "born n bred", in them. And, having run from them, as soon as could? I realize, that these "churches", are not much unlike those of the catholic religion, promoting Mary, as their intercessor, before Christ, unto the Father! Although, in almost every instance they'll deny it! Yet? By knowing their fruits (faith), by their works, or actions? Because they "lack understanding" of Christ's words? They follow Paul! And, then, follow Paul's words as much as their collective (one could almost say apostasetic) understanding, of that which Paul was truly trying to teach them! (or?) Love waxing cold! Why, or how can this happen?
By grieving the Holy Spirit of God!
But? What we're really getting into here, is (a) strong delusion. Which "tribulates the elect!"

 

[Journeyman]

That was just a "politically correct" attitude of Paul to win some Jews.

It shows Paul had no problem being an observant Jew who lived by faith in Jesus. There were lots of them.

What you say is correct for all God's people after the cross, but not for the Jews before the cross. Let's read:

…23Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich manto enter the kingdom of God.” 25When the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”…

See? The disciples were greatly astonished because they perfectly understood what Jesus said. Note that Jesus didn't say: "Oh, don't worry so much! Actually I am referring to those who trust in wealth." Rather the Lord said: “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”…

See? Jesus acknowledged that with man that was impossible. Then the Lord says but with God all things are possible.”…. What does this mean? Probably He was referring to His death on the cross through which our salvation would be made possible.

Jesus was teaching. "You cannot serve both God and money" (Mt.6:24) and be saved. Since God is in us, there is no way earthly riches can take control of our hearts.

I'm asking you! Did Paul ever say that only very few will be saved?

Well, about the Jews he said a remnant would be saved. Few is in relation to many. Jesus likened the end of this world to the days of Noah.

 

[Deade]

Paul's words as much as their collective (one could almost say apostasetic) understanding, of that which Paul was truly trying to teach them! (or?) Love waxing cold! Why, or how can this happen?
By grieving the Holy Spirit of God!
But? What we're really getting into here, is (a) strong delusion. Which "tribulates the elect!"

Do you really believe that God's elect could be deluded and thus troubled? We will have much trouble from worldly folk but not because of delusion on our part. I don't believe that love waxed cold in true believers, I believe that happens among false believers trying to act Christian. There may be some Christians that have become apostate and grown away from God. Unless we say Christ cannot finish the work started in them, we must conclude He is not done with them yet.

Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

 

[Guojing]

To understand why Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles, it will help to understand why Moses is the lawgiver, why the entire Law is summed up as the "Law of Moses", even though the Law was given by God.

Even Jesus himself referred to the Law as "The Law of Moses". As he is living under the law, he is also subjected to Moses. (John 5:46, Matthew 19:8, Matthew 23:1, 2, Mark 7:9, 10).

Moses authority has been challenged before by the Jews, who wanted to hear directly from God instead. In the famous story recounted in Numbers 12

And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.

3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

Likewise, almost all of us are Gentiles here. We belong to the Church, and in this age of grace, Paul is our apostle, his importance is equivalent to Moses, as the lawgiver to the Jews.

Paul's words are the words of the ascended Lord Jesus to his Church, and we will do well to follow what Paul is saying, as instructed in 1 Corinthians 14:37

If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

 

[NayborBear]

Do you really believe that God's elect could be deluded and thus troubled? We will have much trouble from worldly folk but not because of delusion on our part. I don't believe that love waxed cold in true believers, I believe that happens among false believers trying to act Christian. There may be some Christians that have become apostate and grown away from God. Unless we say Christ cannot finish the work started in them, we must conclude He is not done with them yet.

Heb. 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Deluded, is a little strong, methinks! Temporarily confused, by the author of? Has been known to happen! (even to yours truly) Usually, the Father of Lights, sends enough Sons of Light, in the "re-orienting", and "correcting of", if, or when applicable. (don't ask me how I know this)
Sometimes? This can become rather "intense!" Afterwards? A "thanks!" "I really needed that!" I have found, works! This is something many believers, don't (how can I say?) take to very well! Being corrected, that is. The reason being, I suppose, is....Well? The LORD states His case pretty well, in Isaiah 28! Typically, the believer receives the "line upon line, upon line, upon precept, upon precept, upon line, upon precept...etc. To a point, where the believer feels "comfortable enough" in "their security?" That when the "here a little....there a little" comes around? They start spouting verse 15. Not at all unlike what Paul was teaching concerning 1 Corinthians 12:15-17! Instead? They do that which Christ was teaching in Matthew 18:8! Relegating those "offending parts", to Isaiah 28:15. And miss out, and missing out, on the "more EXCELLENT way", Paul was speaking of in 1Corinthians 12:31!
To which the LORD responds in Isaiah 28:17-21. (which in these eyes, blows AWAY any rapture theory/doctrine/teaching ad nausem)
(I sometimes get a little "long-winded!" Comes with the territory, it seems! )

The "result" being such a crippled body? It is LITTLE WONDER "chruchianity" is seen as SUCH a "reproach", and MOCKERY, in the "eyes of men!"

Being "deceived", on the other hand? Is something NOT possible!

Remember: "Here a little?.....THERE, a little!" One little here? One little there? Does NOT get it done!

 

[Deade]

Being "deceived", on the other hand? Is something NOT possible!

So, you agree that Christ may let a little bad interpretation hinder our walk with Him; but He will rein us back in before we become spiritually hurt. I agree those that expect to be raptured away from their troubles are in for a rude awakening.

 

[oldethennew]

Paul is and always has been Jesus' right-hand-man', - how ever any man decides to interpret in his 'own mind'
who and what Paul represents, is on himself (and his own future), for Jesus chose Paul as His Holy representive...

(read your Bibles), of course if they are 'new-age-bibles', then you will definitely be completely screwed-up)...

 

[NayborBear]

So, you agree that Christ may let a little bad interpretation hinder our walk with Him; but He will rein us back in before we become spiritually hurt. I agree those that expect to be raptured away from their troubles are in for a rude awakening.

I'll start off with this:
Romans 8
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

If what you said were true? Then, Christ's "Church" would not be "staggering" around on crutches, barely able in maintaining forward progress. Right?

Matthew 7
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

So, no. I don't agree with your last post.
John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Isaiah 28
21 For the Lord shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

 

[Absolutely]

Hello, brother Journeyman!

But fact is that there are some disagreements between the teachings of the earthly Jesus and the Risen One. The earthly Jesus preached obedience to the law of Moses, whereas Paul (the risen Jesus' spokesman) said we are not under the law. Jesus told the man cured from leprosy to present himself to the priest and perform sacrifices (Paul would never say that). Jesus said it is impossible for a rich person to enter heaven (it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle = impossible), whereas Paul said he could live in want or in plenty. According to the earthly Jesus very few will be saved. What did Paul say about that?

In my city there are "conflicting" rules regarding traffic lights: One says you must stop at red lights and another says that, between sunset and sunrise, you may go provided there is no crossing traffic.

The same happens in the New Testament: There are rules that apply to the Jews before the cross and rules that apply to both Jews and Gentiles after the cross, in the New Covenant.

Pure baloney.

......and then Jesus proceeded to say of the rich people ; what is impossible with man,is possible with God.

So,to cherry pick and omit,yes you can spin it to your doctrine,which so strangely voids Jesus,his word,the bible.
But even worse is the fact that the eye of a needle example Jesus invokes is a law of heaven concerning forsaking all ,(pauls dying at baptism),and having a single heart to heaven.

Concerning the law,and Jesus,why in the world do you twist that??????
I mean,what good thing do you,in your mind,imagine you can manufacture.

A simple,simple bible study reveals he BROKE THEIR LAW.
When questioned on the law he said " what is the first commandment"
Then, began to show them the law is encompased in the law of love.


He told the people " unless your righteousness EXCEED the righteousnes of the Pharisee....."
Meaning??????
WHAT DID HE MEAN????
He was pointing to a mystery.
HIMSELF.
The one you pointlessly diminish.

You know the ever obvious mark of a cult????
The tireless effort to diminish Jesus.

 

[Absolutely]

End of Story and Amen too!!!

Yes it is.
The apostles preached the Gospel with and without Paul.
They ,the "only paul" adherants ,actually think the Gospel is APART ,from the PERSON of Jesus.
It is deception. Last days deception.

Give them alittle hint,which is the core of salvation,that salvation is a person,not a doctrine,and they call me a heretic.
They actually think dbr is the gospel.

They are COMPLETELY BLINDED to the fact dbr is the VEHICLE,NOT SALVATION.
Salvation is a person,JESUS.

If that escapes man,he is lost indeed.
Last days deception.

 

[Absolutely]

So, you agree that Christ may let a little bad interpretation hinder our walk with Him; but He will rein us back in before we become spiritually hurt. I agree those that expect to be raptured away from their troubles are in for a rude awakening.

Rev 14 decisively destroys any hope of a post,or mid trib rapture.

Decisely.

All the threads are gone on the subject.
Rev 14 is THE end all on that one.
Only a few temporarily try to oppose rev 14. Then dissappear,as does the entire thread.

But yes,there will be a rude awakening,it is vividly depicted in mat 25.

 

[John146]

Yes it is.
The apostles preached the Gospel with and without Paul.
They ,the "only paul" adherants ,actually think the Gospel is APART ,from the PERSON of Jesus.
It is deception. Last days deception.

Give them alittle hint,which is the core of salvation,that salvation is a person,not a doctrine,and they call me a heretic.
They actually think dbr is the gospel.

They are COMPLETELY BLINDED to the fact dbr is the VEHICLE,NOT SALVATION.
Salvation is a person,JESUS.

If that escapes man,he is lost indeed.
Last days deception.

Christ Jesus cannot be separated from His word. To get to Christ, one needs His word to lead him. Yes, Jesus Christ is the Savior, the one who provided Himself as the Lamb, but one needs to hear the message of the cross to believe on Him to be saved. You can't simply go around saying, "Jesus...trust Jesus". Trust Jesus for what? What did He do? The essential part of the gospel is Christ's testimony of who He is and what He accomplished.

 

[Absolutely]

Paul is and always has been Jesus' right-hand-man', - how ever any man decides to interpret in his 'own mind'
who and what Paul represents, is on himself (and his own future), for Jesus chose Paul as His Holy representive...

(read your Bibles), of course if they are 'new-age-bibles', then you will definitely be completely screwed-up)...

Paul is where he belongs.
An inspired Holy Ghost baptised man of God,chosen to be used by God and through whom we recieved Inspired word of God.

Same with the rest of the books.
EXACTLY the SAME.
ZERO DIFFERENCE.
SAME GOSPEL THROUGHOUT THE BIBLE.
NO "PAUL ONLY" CONFLICT.
ZERO

 

[Absolutely]

Christ Jesus cannot be separated from His word. To get to Christ, one needs His word to lead him. Yes, Jesus Christ is the Savior, the one who provided Himself as the Lamb, but one needs to hear the message of the cross to believe on Him to be saved. You can't simply go around saying, "Jesus...trust Jesus". Trust Jesus for what? What did He do? The essential part of the gospel is Christ's testimony of who He is and what He accomplished.

The starting place may or may not involve a preacher.
The Jailer came ,as others,because of a miracle.
Miracles are the dinner bell that bring men to Christ.
That is folly to think a person can ONLY be saved by an evangelist.
Yes many DO GET saved by /through preaching.
But take out the person of Jesus showing up,and you can repeat dbr a thousnd times with some mental results.
Without the Person of Jesus,there is no salvation.
I am amazed,the Paul only adherants are that devoid of Gods plan of salvation.
You guys actually think salvation is a doctrine,not a person.

How,in this age of enlightenment,is this even remotely possible????

 

[John146]

That is folly to think a person can ONLY be saved by an evangelist.
Yes many DO GET saved by /through preaching.

Where do you get this stuff? Did you even read my post? Did I ever mention an evangelist? I think you have a preconceived idea what I and others believe and then you post thoughts totally not pertaining to our posts. Read and think before posting. Thanks. (And very rarely you post Scripture to back you position.)

Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How does faith come? Hearing the word of God. How does one hear the word without a preacher? How does one believe if they don't hear?

 

[Absolutely]

Christ Jesus cannot be separated from His word. To get to Christ, one needs His word to lead him. Yes, Jesus Christ is the Savior, the one who provided Himself as the Lamb, but one needs to hear the message of the cross to believe on Him to be saved. You can't simply go around saying, "Jesus...trust Jesus". Trust Jesus for what? What did He do? The essential part of the gospel is Christ's testimony of who He is and what He accomplished.

The major ingredient to lead men to Christ is the H S.
That is WHY the HS was invoked BY GOD for elija,elisha,Jesus,and the church.

But now we have a" better" way.
We remove the Holy Ghost w/o any license. Tell em "oh that miracle stuff ceased"
Literrally just pull down a lie from the sky.

And replace the power of God with the better way.

Oh,but if we do need a prayer answered we kinda repent for yoking God with a confused Powerless gospel and ask him to make an exception to our powerless " truths" that lead others to no faith in Gods power.

They actually preach that today. Oh miracles ceased. God is powerless.

I wonder how a cessationist reads in the " ceased" famous verse the "knowledge" also ceased?
Oh wait. It has ceased.
Now salvation is a doctrine,and it makes sense,the one WITH the power is subsequently absent with the power following suit

 

[Absolutely]

Where do you get this stuff? Did you even read my post? Did I ever mention an evangelist? I think you have a preconceived idea what I and others believe and then you post thoughts totally not pertaining to our posts. Read and think before posting. Thanks. (And very rarely you post Scripture to back you position.)

Romans 10
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

How does faith come? Hearing the word of God. How does one hear the word without a preacher? How does one believe if they don't hear?

Yes i did.
Then you prove my point by affirming salvation without the person of Jesus.
Remember,salvation is a person. Not a formula.
You exault the vehicle above the person.
That is WHY you stick to that.
I say Jesus shows up IN SALVATION. Preacher,or no preacher.

 

[John146]

The major ingredient to lead men to Christ is the H S.
That is WHY the HS was invoked BY GOD for elija,elisha,Jesus,and the church.

But now we have a" better" way.
We remove the Holy Ghost w/o any license. Tell em "oh that miracle stuff ceased"
Literrally just pull down a lie from the sky.

And replace the power of God with the better way.

Oh,but if we do need a prayer answered we kinda repent for yoking God with a confused Powerless gospel and ask him to make an exception to our powerless " truths" that lead others to no faith in Gods power.

They actually preach that today. Oh miracles ceased. God is powerless.

I wonder how a cessationist reads in the " ceased" famous verse the "knowledge" also ceased?
Oh wait. It has ceased.
Now salvation is a doctrine,and it makes sense,the one WITH the power is subsequently absent with the power following suit

Ask your miracle worker to go to the nearest cancer center and have them heal all the people with cancer.

 

[John146]

Yes i did.
Then you prove my point by affirming salvation without the person of Jesus.
Remember,salvation is a person. Not a formula.
You exault the vehicle above the person.
That is WHY you stick to that.
I say Jesus shows up IN SALVATION. Preacher,or no preacher.

Do you know what Jesus did for you at the cross? How do you know this? We know nothing about the Savior except for the Scriptures.