Not By Works
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The plain words in verse 14 say "says-claims" (key word) to have faith but has no works. What kind of faith is that? -- empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.
James 2:14 (NASB) - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:14 (NIV) - What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
James 2:14 (AMP) - What is the benefit, my fellow believers, if someone claims to have faith but has no [good] works [as evidence]? Can that [kind of] faith save him? [No, a mere claim of faith is not sufficient—genuine faith produces good works.]
Do you interpret "justified by works" to mean "saved by works" in the context of James 2:14-24 in contradiction to Romans 4:2-6?
James 2:14 (NASB) - What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
James 2:14 (NIV) - What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?
James 2:14 (AMP) - What is the benefit, my fellow believers, if someone claims to have faith but has no [good] works [as evidence]? Can that [kind of] faith save him? [No, a mere claim of faith is not sufficient—genuine faith produces good works.]
Do you interpret "justified by works" to mean "saved by works" in the context of James 2:14-24 in contradiction to Romans 4:2-6?
To comfort yourself, you do this constantly.
Here is James 2:14-20 No commentary is necessary.
Faith and Works
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
No further comment...
It's self-explanatory.
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Yes indeed.
The truth can be disconcerting to some.
WHY has been my question since I've been here.
IF a person believes they are saved and trusting in Jesus for their salvation,
Why would they be afraid of saying that, YES, it IS necessary to obey and follow Christ.
I hear on this thread that they are not saying NOT to obey Christ....
but, alas, they also are not saying that we must obey Him.
Does God make requests?
I don't believe so.
A disciple of Jesus obeys Him
and follows Him.
Jesus lived such a perfect life and so He was made to be as an example for us.
It's too bad some will not accept that example.
(One of the atonement theological beliefs is the Atonement of Moral Influence)
The truth can be disconcerting to some.
WHY has been my question since I've been here.
IF a person believes they are saved and trusting in Jesus for their salvation,
Why would they be afraid of saying that, YES, it IS necessary to obey and follow Christ.
I hear on this thread that they are not saying NOT to obey Christ....
but, alas, they also are not saying that we must obey Him.
Does God make requests?
I don't believe so.
A disciple of Jesus obeys Him
and follows Him.
Jesus lived such a perfect life and so He was made to be as an example for us.
It's too bad some will not accept that example.
(One of the atonement theological beliefs is the Atonement of Moral Influence)
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I know the feeling.
I got really ticked off with studyman several times, wanted to go on a tirade.
that is why it is best to use the ignore people who do not want to have a truthful debate, but just keep pushing the same disinformation , even after they have been clearly shown their wrong beliefs.
I am more and more convinced that some are just here to troll and mess with people, which is a crying shame on a Christian site.
I got really ticked off with studyman several times, wanted to go on a tirade.
that is why it is best to use the ignore people who do not want to have a truthful debate, but just keep pushing the same disinformation , even after they have been clearly shown their wrong beliefs.
I am more and more convinced that some are just here to troll and mess with people, which is a crying shame on a Christian site.
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Hi decon, the Church where I was born again and baptized held fast to a Church rule that a member should not be in a position of leadership until they have been a member in good standing for at least one year. The reason for this rule is because of "Pride." There are some Church members that would use their position of leadership to "lord it over" those who are under their leadership, yes this is all too true.
What ever Church body you may be affiliated with; even if you happen to be on a Conservative International Christian Forum, never ever follow someone who does not show evidence of "true humility." Many an unsuspecting but trusting Christian has found themselves a victim of "Spiritual Abuse", by someone in a place of authority.
And the primary reason that anyone can say that they "Keep 'all' the Commandments", of God, but confess if they do break a commandment is, "Pride" the original sin.
1 Peter 5:5
"All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
James4:6
"God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
Hebrews 13:17
Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
James 1:5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
What ever Church body you may be affiliated with; even if you happen to be on a Conservative International Christian Forum, never ever follow someone who does not show evidence of "true humility." Many an unsuspecting but trusting Christian has found themselves a victim of "Spiritual Abuse", by someone in a place of authority.
And the primary reason that anyone can say that they "Keep 'all' the Commandments", of God, but confess if they do break a commandment is, "Pride" the original sin.
1 Peter 5:5
"All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
James4:6
"God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
Hebrews 13:17
Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
James 1:5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
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The spirit-filled teachers use the bible...
they quote from the bible....
it's easy to see what the verses mean...
they are not twisted to mean what the teacher wants them to mean.
They do not require a whole page to explain.
A spirit-filled led teacher will teach that God requires obedience.
That Jesus wants us to follow Him.
They are not afraid to state what is required of us.
Words are not added to veses.
On this very forum, I've seen
Mathew 7:23 explained that the ones Jesus tells to depart from Him are the unsaved.
In the verses before that Jesus DOES NOT even mention the saved or the unsaved...
AND, He clearly tells WHO is going to be asked to depart from Him.
I pray for you and hope you read the bible simply so it could be plain to you.
The works of the law are misinterpreted to mean any work.
I've asked the OP to explain works of THE LAW, but no answer will ever be forthcoming because it would not uphold his teachings.
Peter said that some of Paul's teaching are difficult.
this does not mean they're to be changed or twisted.
2 Peter 3:16
they quote from the bible....
it's easy to see what the verses mean...
they are not twisted to mean what the teacher wants them to mean.
They do not require a whole page to explain.
A spirit-filled led teacher will teach that God requires obedience.
That Jesus wants us to follow Him.
They are not afraid to state what is required of us.
Words are not added to veses.
On this very forum, I've seen
Mathew 7:23 explained that the ones Jesus tells to depart from Him are the unsaved.
In the verses before that Jesus DOES NOT even mention the saved or the unsaved...
AND, He clearly tells WHO is going to be asked to depart from Him.
I pray for you and hope you read the bible simply so it could be plain to you.
The works of the law are misinterpreted to mean any work.
I've asked the OP to explain works of THE LAW, but no answer will ever be forthcoming because it would not uphold his teachings.
Peter said that some of Paul's teaching are difficult.
this does not mean they're to be changed or twisted.
2 Peter 3:16
Because you make works part of the salvation "process".......which is false..........and NO MATTER how many times you peddle that fallacy you cannot get around the truth of the following verse....
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
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As usual, no scripture.
Works are part of the salvation economy God has put into practice for mankind:
Jeremiah 4:22
"For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know."
Galatians 6:9-10
Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
Psalm 37:3
Trust in the LORD and do good; Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness.
Matthew 5:38-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
Luke 6:27-36
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
1 Peter 3:8-13
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good?
1 Peter 3:10-12
For, "THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT. "HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD; HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT. "FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS, AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER, BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO EVIL."
Does the above sound to you like works is not a part of salvation?
Show me as many verses that state the saved are going to heaven....
Jesus said we must be saved, and be born from above.
But in all His teachings and preachings, He spoke of good works, as did all the N.T. writers.
Works are part of the salvation economy God has put into practice for mankind:
Jeremiah 4:22
"For My people are foolish, They know Me not; They are stupid children And have no understanding They are shrewd to do evil, But to do good they do not know."
Galatians 6:9-10
Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith.
Psalm 37:3
Trust in the LORD and do good; Dwell in the land and cultivate faithfulness.
Matthew 5:38-48
"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.
Luke 6:27-36
"But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either.
1 Peter 3:8-13
To sum up, all of you be harmonious, sympathetic, brotherly, kindhearted, and humble in spirit; not returning evil for evil or insult for insult, but giving a blessing instead; for you were called for the very purpose that you might inherit a blessing. Who is there to harm you if you prove zealous for what is good?
1 Peter 3:10-12
For, "THE ONE WHO DESIRES LIFE, TO LOVE AND SEE GOOD DAYS, MUST KEEP HIS TONGUE FROM EVIL AND HIS LIPS FROM SPEAKING DECEIT. "HE MUST TURN AWAY FROM EVIL AND DO GOOD; HE MUST SEEK PEACE AND PURSUE IT. "FOR THE EYES OF THE LORD ARE TOWARD THE RIGHTEOUS, AND HIS EARS ATTEND TO THEIR PRAYER, BUT THE FACE OF THE LORD IS AGAINST THOSE WHO DO EVIL."
Does the above sound to you like works is not a part of salvation?
Show me as many verses that state the saved are going to heaven....
Jesus said we must be saved, and be born from above.
But in all His teachings and preachings, He spoke of good works, as did all the N.T. writers.
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I did not add my own ideas to these verses in order to comfort myself. You need to stop bearing false witness. *I interpreted these verses after considering the context and I also properly harmonized scripture with scripture in order to reach the proper conclusion on doctrine. I wouldn’t expect you to understand.
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You are a bald face liar Fran................the bolded is a direct quote from Romans 4
dcontroversal said:
Because you make works part of the salvation "process".......which is false..........and NO MATTER how many times you peddle that fallacy you cannot get around the truth of the following verse....
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
dcontroversal said:
Because you make works part of the salvation "process".......which is false..........and NO MATTER how many times you peddle that fallacy you cannot get around the truth of the following verse....
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
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What is there to understand?
It's written in plain English.
Here it is again:
Faith and Works
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
No commentary necessary for those who desire the truth.
It's written in plain English.
Here it is again:
Faith and Works
14What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?
15If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,
16and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
18But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
19You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
20But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?
No commentary necessary for those who desire the truth.
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Folks.............we have a liar and deceiver in our midst.....my last three posts contain direct quotes from the bible and she accuses of me posting no scripture........and this woman peddles that she obeys God, keeps his commandments and makes obedience a part of salvation.....by her OWN words she states that she is not saved.
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Where did it say Romans 4???
Did it not come through?
And WHERE in Romans 4???
As I've clearly shown you,
Works/good deeds are a part of God's salvation economy.
Also, you should read Truthtalk's post no. 82, 465, he has some good advice there.
Here it is:
1 Peter 5:5
"All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
James4:6
"God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
Hebrews 13:17
Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
James 1:5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
Even the above speaks of works.....
Did it not come through?
And WHERE in Romans 4???
As I've clearly shown you,
Works/good deeds are a part of God's salvation economy.
Also, you should read Truthtalk's post no. 82, 465, he has some good advice there.
Here it is:
1 Peter 5:5
"All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
James4:6
"God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble."
Hebrews 13:17
Have confidence in your leaders and submit to their authority, because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account. Do this so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no benefit to you.
James 1:5
But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
Even the above speaks of works.....
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