Water Baptism-What Does God's Word Say?
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This is so typical of the anti-tongues/gifts crowd.
They will define tongues to their liking and then make all sorts of erroneous statements about them.
Those who don't speak in tongues, but rather speak out against them, enjoy telling the rest of us what they are and how and when they are to be used, or not used. I have identified at least five kinds of tongues.
Five Different kinds of tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
They will define tongues to their liking and then make all sorts of erroneous statements about them.
Those who don't speak in tongues, but rather speak out against them, enjoy telling the rest of us what they are and how and when they are to be used, or not used. I have identified at least five kinds of tongues.
Five Different kinds of tongues
1) Personal prayer language - Speaking to/with God
2) Intercessory prayer language - Praying for others in the Spirit
3) Prophetic prayer language - Addressing the whole church/preferably with interpretation
4) Singing in the Spirit - Singing in tongues/worship activity
5) Evangelistic language - Speaking the message of God to a people in their own language (not yours)
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The following is a portion of Paul’s letter recorded in the Book of Hebrews expressing there is a difference between foundation and Christian living principles; milk and strong meat.
Clearly, Paul is speaking to those who have obeyed the elementary principles of laying the foundation given by the Apostle Peter on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38) This is expressed by his comment that it is not necessary to “lay again” the foundation.
Evidently there was dispute, because the impact of following the instructions given by Peter was not completely understood.
In essence, Paul’s comments reflect the following:
2. “For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” Heb 5:12-14
Notice the following scripture where Paul goes on to say the principles/foundation of the teaching of Christ is repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost baptism by the laying on of hands. After which resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment will take place:
3.“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.” (Hebrews 6:1-2)
Clearly, Paul is speaking to those who have obeyed the elementary principles of laying the foundation given by the Apostle Peter on the Day of Pentecost. (Acts 2:38) This is expressed by his comment that it is not necessary to “lay again” the foundation.
Evidently there was dispute, because the impact of following the instructions given by Peter was not completely understood.
In essence, Paul’s comments reflect the following:
- All must obey Jesus in order for a proper foundation to be put in place. (See Heb 6:1-2 below)
- After the foundation is laid it is not necessary to lay it again, in fact it would be useless to try.
- After obedience to the milk of the Word; repentance, water baptism and Holy Ghost baptism the individual is to search the strong meat of the Word; pursuing perfection.
2. “For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” Heb 5:12-14
Notice the following scripture where Paul goes on to say the principles/foundation of the teaching of Christ is repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost baptism by the laying on of hands. After which resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment will take place:
3.“Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.” (Hebrews 6:1-2)
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Those are great points.
Anyone that claims that the ministry of the laying on of hands is not for today is attempting to remove a block, or blocks, from our foundation. Just as in the physical realm, this would weaken the whole structure, so in the spiritual realm.
What foolishness to tamper with the foundation of the church Christ is building.
Anyone that claims that the ministry of the laying on of hands is not for today is attempting to remove a block, or blocks, from our foundation. Just as in the physical realm, this would weaken the whole structure, so in the spiritual realm.
What foolishness to tamper with the foundation of the church Christ is building.
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I do think the laying on of hands is sometimes missed in church.
Some people are very 'hands off' in their prayer and ministry. But God wants to reach out and touch people.
There are many times in the Bible that God manifests and is physically near, but I think people are rather afraid of physically experiencing Him. For example, Jacob wrestled with God till the break of day and had a limp to show for it. Jesus asked Thomas to touch the scars on his hands and feet so he would not doubt that he was risen. Jesus praised the woman who reached out to touch the hem of his garment, saying she her faith had made her well. Jesus washed his disciples feet.
TImothy was ordained with the laying on of hands. When the apostles went out, they laid hands on people and God healed them.
Some people are very 'hands off' in their prayer and ministry. But God wants to reach out and touch people.
There are many times in the Bible that God manifests and is physically near, but I think people are rather afraid of physically experiencing Him. For example, Jacob wrestled with God till the break of day and had a limp to show for it. Jesus asked Thomas to touch the scars on his hands and feet so he would not doubt that he was risen. Jesus praised the woman who reached out to touch the hem of his garment, saying she her faith had made her well. Jesus washed his disciples feet.
TImothy was ordained with the laying on of hands. When the apostles went out, they laid hands on people and God healed them.
I don't think we can toss out all scripture except what saves. That would be asking any scripture "what good does this scripture do for me personally, if it doesn't give my what I want I don't want to hear it".
Also, you are separating and making materialist everything in scripture. It is another of those saying if works won't save, toss out works. '
If you toss out all symbolism in scripture saying "it won't save toss it" you are missing a lot of what God has to offer you. God's way is to use symbolism to explain His way to us, God doesn't say it won't save you so get rid of it.
Also, you are separating and making materialist everything in scripture. It is another of those saying if works won't save, toss out works. '
If you toss out all symbolism in scripture saying "it won't save toss it" you are missing a lot of what God has to offer you. God's way is to use symbolism to explain His way to us, God doesn't say it won't save you so get rid of it.
If circumcision and water baptism are just symbols why does the Word indicate otherwise:
Gen 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Moses neglected to circumcise one of his sons and the Lord met Him at the Inn to kill him:
Ex 4:24-26
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
The tabernacle laver is a foreshadow of the New Testament water baptism. Moses was told to wash Aaron and his sons as entrance into the priesthood. If they did not wash in the laver before attempting to enter the tabernacle they would DIE:
Ex 29:4
And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
Ex 30:20
When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not;
These scriptures indicate there were consequences for those who chose not to obey God's commands.
In addition, the unpardonable sin is when someone attributes the casting out of devils to satan's kingdom/fallen angels:
Mark 3:22-30
22And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Gen 17:14
And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Moses neglected to circumcise one of his sons and the Lord met Him at the Inn to kill him:
Ex 4:24-26
And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.
So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.
The tabernacle laver is a foreshadow of the New Testament water baptism. Moses was told to wash Aaron and his sons as entrance into the priesthood. If they did not wash in the laver before attempting to enter the tabernacle they would DIE:
Ex 29:4
And Aaron and his sons thou shalt bring unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water.
Ex 30:20
When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not;
These scriptures indicate there were consequences for those who chose not to obey God's commands.
In addition, the unpardonable sin is when someone attributes the casting out of devils to satan's kingdom/fallen angels:
Mark 3:22-30
22And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.
23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
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It does
Col 2: 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
Col 2: 11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body [h]of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the [i]handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
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According to the Interlinear bible and the Strong's Concordance this scripture as well as another corresponding one in Romans 6:4 are referencing water baptism. The scripture context includes forgiveness of sins in the process. We know from Paul's water baptism record in Acts 22:16 and Acts 2:38 that sins are forgiven during water baptism.
E
No, the word baptizo CAN mean a physical baptism but it does not always, it is a verb, it means to place into or plunge.
Baptism in water is being immersed or placed into christ
Baptism into burial and death means being immersed or placed into the death and burial of christ
Just like being baptized into moses means to be placed into moses.
Another flaw of the english language texts because they did not interpret the word.
Baptism in water is being immersed or placed into christ
Baptism into burial and death means being immersed or placed into the death and burial of christ
Just like being baptized into moses means to be placed into moses.
Another flaw of the english language texts because they did not interpret the word.
You mention baptizo CAN mean a physical baptism but it does not always. So you interpret it to mean what you think it means. Upon further study as I posted: The scripture context of Colossians Chapter 2 includes forgiveness of sins in the process. We know from Paul's water baptism record in Acts 22:16 and Acts 2:38 that sins are forgiven during water baptism.
The Word will always confirm itself by 2 or 3 witnesses. (Matthew 18:16)
The Word will always confirm itself by 2 or 3 witnesses. (Matthew 18:16)
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You just did what you judged me of doing, you interpreted using your own thinking
You need to think
In the book of Colossians, paul was talking about a spiritual circumcision done by the hand of God not the hand of men, God accomplished this spiritual circumcision by buring us in baptism and raising us to new life.
So paul would be contradicting himself saying this baptism which accomplishes the spiritual circumcision done by the hands of God not men, is really done by the hand of men in a physical baptism
It is not my thinking which i come up with what baptism is spoken of, it is also using the text itself and the rules of language (in the case of romans 6) where you have baptism being interpreted as baptise in water, so literally interpreting the passage in your belief, i would see,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were (baptized in water) into Jesus Christ were (baptized in water )into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by (baptism in water) into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
You see how again, your interpretation does not fit, because you can not add water in the passage, thus one must conclude we are actually being baptized literally into the christ and his death not water. (Which fits the defenition of the greek word transliterated not translated into the english text)
You can use strongs all you want, just because it can mean something does not mean it does, in niether of these passages is the physical act of being baptized into water by the hands of men in context.
You need to think
In the book of Colossians, paul was talking about a spiritual circumcision done by the hand of God not the hand of men, God accomplished this spiritual circumcision by buring us in baptism and raising us to new life.
So paul would be contradicting himself saying this baptism which accomplishes the spiritual circumcision done by the hands of God not men, is really done by the hand of men in a physical baptism
It is not my thinking which i come up with what baptism is spoken of, it is also using the text itself and the rules of language (in the case of romans 6) where you have baptism being interpreted as baptise in water, so literally interpreting the passage in your belief, i would see,
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were (baptized in water) into Jesus Christ were (baptized in water )into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by (baptism in water) into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
You see how again, your interpretation does not fit, because you can not add water in the passage, thus one must conclude we are actually being baptized literally into the christ and his death not water. (Which fits the defenition of the greek word transliterated not translated into the english text)
You can use strongs all you want, just because it can mean something does not mean it does, in niether of these passages is the physical act of being baptized into water by the hands of men in context.