Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

Thank you.
I've been saying the above for weeks now.

No one will explain what BELIEVE means.
No one will explain what THE LAW is.
No one will explain what DEEDS OF THE LAW are.

This is because explaining it would mean they are incorrect.
It would be very interesting to read the explanations of some here...

But they are not forthcoming since they'd have to go against everything they espouse.

Noting but untruths in this post FRAN..........you are as deceptive as they come.......

 

[cv5]

Thank you.
I've been saying the above for weeks now.

No one will explain what BELIEVE means.
No one will explain what THE LAW is.
No one will explain what DEEDS OF THE LAW are.

This is because explaining it would mean they are incorrect.
It would be very interesting to read the explanations of some here...

But they are not forthcoming since they'd have to go against everything they espouse.

It occurs to me that Paul's dissertations concerning the Law vs Grace were categorically a refutation of the Jews and their practice or insistence on adhering to the Law of Moses. The Law did not concern the gentiles other than the fact of Paul's defense of the gentiles against the Judaizers.

 

[dcontroversal]

It occurs to me that Paul's dissertations concerning the Law vs Grace were categorically a refutation of the Jews and their practice or insistence on adhering to the Law of Moses. The Law did not concern the gentiles other than the fact of Paul's defense of the gentiles against the Judaizers.

To me the purpose of the law is clear.....it condemns all and points all to the only cure which is the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

Therefore, we conclude, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

 

[TruthTalk]

Hi decon, and thank you for pointing out the fact that this forum and in particular this thread, "Not By Works", has been more than accommodating and fair to Fran in just about every way possible to include tolerating her counterfeit gospel.

The picture displayed here by Rosemaryx is a perfect example of how people try to force the bible to fit their presuppositions or bias.

 

[cv5]

To me the purpose of the law is clear.....it condemns all and points all to the only cure which is the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

Therefore, we conclude, that a man is justified by faith without the deeds/works of the law.

OK true enough no doubt about that. But the NT arguments are undoubtedly pointed to the Jews that Paul (and the author of Hebrews) is attempting to either convert or refute. Not to gentiles per se. Gentile Ephesians or Corinthians wouldn't have the foggiest notion of what Paul was talking about.....until further study of course.

All of the Law vs Grace discourses have their birth due to the necessity of Paul teaching or refuting the Jews. The gentiles were incidental in a sense. However they were enriched by all of this teaching no doubt as we all are.

 

[TruthTalk]

Yes. It's a very interesting subject
and I'm not discussing it on a thread where I get attacked by most everyone here
and where nothing but snide remarks are made (except for a couple of members).

If you care to start a thread and advise me...I will participate.

You have been rude and disrespectful and have insulted most everyone on this thread but, you are the victim. You were once banned and now have returned violating your ban. Just being here on this forum is a sin and an offence to most people but, you are the victim.

If you expect kindness try sowing a little kindness; If you want sympathy try giving some. I you wish to have respect try being just a little respectful. If understanding then give. Most on this thread have given you all of these things and have gone over and over all of the unresolved issues yet in your world and on this forum you want to play the victim, you are the victim.

Instead of playing the victim game try accepting responsibility for your part.

 

[dcontroversal]

OK true enough no doubt about that. But the NT arguments are undoubtedly pointed to the Jews that Paul (and the author of Hebrews) is attempting to either convert or refute. Not to gentiles per se. Gentile Ephesians or Corinthians wouldn't have the foggiest notion of what Paul was talking about.....until further study of course.

All of the Law vs Grace discourses have their birth due to the necessity of Paul teaching or refuting the Jews. The gentiles were incidental in a sense. However they were enriched by all of this teaching no doubt as we all are.

Well.....my only issue is the fact that Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles and most of the church letters that he wrote were written unto Gentile churches. Woven throughout those letters are numerous references to the law and it's purpose.......I.E. to shut every mouth and all the world become guilty, as our schoolmaster etc........

 

[Hevosmies]

Am I the only one who is focused on SOMETHING ELSE other than the car? Oy vey! Lord have mercy

 

[cv5]

Well.....my only issue is the fact that Paul was an apostle to the Gentiles and most of the church letters that he wrote were written unto Gentile churches. Woven throughout those letters are numerous references to the law and it's purpose.......I.E. to shut every mouth and all the world become guilty, as our schoolmaster etc........

Hhmmmm.....Pauls first pit stop was almost always a synagogue. Everywhere all the time.

 

[TruthTalk]

Am I the only one who is focused on SOMETHING ELSE other than the car?
Oy vey! Lord have mercy

Yep I can see clearly now, double Oy vey! and Lord have mercy!

 

[dcontroversal]

Hhmmmm.....Pauls first pit stop was almost always a synagogue. Everywhere all the time.

Yes, it was in Acts.....and yet he states clearly that he is sent as an Apostle unto the Gentiles....Many verse prove this truth.....such as...

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Ephesians 3:3 This is why I, Paul, am a prisoner of Christ for you Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:8 God gave his grace to me, the least of all God’s people, to preach the good news about the immeasurable riches of Christ to the Gentiles.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood

Acts 22:21 "And He said to me, 'Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'

Romans 1:14-15 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome

 

[cv5]

Yes, it was in Acts.....and yet he states clearly that he is sent as an Apostle unto the Gentiles....Many verse prove this truth.....such as...

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Ephesians 3:3 This is why I, Paul, am a prisoner of Christ for you Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:8 God gave his grace to me, the least of all God’s people, to preach the good news about the immeasurable riches of Christ to the Gentiles.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood

Acts 22:21 "And He said to me, 'Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'

Romans 1:14-15 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome

Part and parcel of his preaching to the gentiles was a defense against judaizers. And Paul was constantly engaged in the synagogue as well everywhere all the time. I wouldn't get to strict or fussy on categories. Paul was definitely preaching to Jews and gentiles. I think what you refer to is that he was preaching in geographical regigions outside of Israel. Yes. Thats it.

 

[dcontroversal]

Part and parcel of his preaching to the gentiles was a defense against judaizers. And Paul was constantly engaged in the synagogue as well everywhere all the time. I wouldn't get to strict or fussy on categories. Paul was definitely preaching to Jews and gentiles. I think what you refer to is that he was preaching in geographical regigions outside of Israel. Yes. Thats it.

No, not hardly....Paul was specifically sent to the Gentiles and the above posted verses state this clearly........

 

[Hevosmies]

Does anyone know if the Galatians, Corinthians, etc. had the Tanakh? OT scriptures?

I would assume yes, no evidence for this, except that I dont think Paul would be quoting so much OT to people who cant go and check out WHAT he is quoting.I am of the belief its always good to go back and read whats quoted, it helps.

 

[cv5]

No, not hardly....Paul was specifically sent to the Gentiles and the above posted verses state this clearly........

So why was he constantly attending synagogue in all the cities he visited? This was a continuous habit and quite indisputable.
Yes Paul was specifically sent to the gentiles, but he did not somehow utterly abandon the Jews. Paul was constanly engaging the Jews to the end. He took a vow and visited Jerusalem well into his ministry.

 

[dcontroversal]

So why was he constantly attending synagogue in all the cities he visited? This was a continuous habit and quite indisputable.
Yes Paul was specifically sent to the gentiles, but he did not somehow utterly abandon the Jews. Paul was constanly engaging the Jews to the end. He took a vow and visited Jerusalem well into his ministry.

I never said that he wasn't........Primarily his mission was the Gentiles...........and the churches he started were Gentile in scope and nature......and the letters he wrote were written to mainly churches filled with Gentile believers......

 

[cv5]

I never said that he wasn't........Primarily his mission was the Gentiles...........and the churches he started were Gentile in scope and nature......and the letters he wrote were written to mainly churches filled with Gentile believers......

Let us recall all of the Jews mentioned in Act 18. Many Jews including newly converted! I think we are on safe ground if we include Pauls inclusion of the Jews in his preaching efforts to....."persuade Jews and Greeks"

Paul in Corinth

1After this Paula left Athens and went to Corinth. 2And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. And he went to see them, 3and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade. 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
5When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. 6And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. His house was next door to the synagogue. 8Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.​

 

[dcontroversal]

Let us recall all of the Jews mentioned in Act 18. Many Jews including newly converted! I think we are on safe ground if we include Pauls inclusion of the Jews in his preaching efforts to....."persuade Jews and Greeks"

Paul in Corinth

1After this Paula left Athens and went to Corinth. 2And he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had commanded all the Jews to leave Rome. And he went to see them, 3and because he was of the same trade he stayed with them and worked, for they were tentmakers by trade. 4And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and tried to persuade Jews and Greeks.
5When Silas and Timothy arrived from Macedonia, Paul was occupied with the word, testifying to the Jews that the Christ was Jesus. 6And when they opposed and reviled him, he shook out his garments and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.” 7And he left there and went to the house of a man named Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. His house was next door to the synagogue. 8Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord, together with his entire household. And many of the Corinthians hearing Paul believed and were baptized.​

Argue with the WORDS OF PAUL HIMSELF......I am done arguing a moot point that you refuse to accept by the MOUTH of the MAN himself which was INSPIRED BY GOD to write the following.....

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Ephesians 3:3 This is why I, Paul, am a prisoner of Christ for you Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:8 God gave his grace to me, the least of all God’s people, to preach the good news about the immeasurable riches of Christ to the Gentiles.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood

Acts 22:21 "And He said to me, 'Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'

Romans 1:14-15 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome

 

[cv5]

Argue with the WORDS OF PAUL HIMSELF......I am done arguing a moot point that you refuse to accept by the MOUTH of the MAN himself which was INSPIRED BY GOD to write the following.....

Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

Ephesians 3:3 This is why I, Paul, am a prisoner of Christ for you Gentiles.

Ephesians 3:8 God gave his grace to me, the least of all God’s people, to preach the good news about the immeasurable riches of Christ to the Gentiles.

Galatians 1:15-16 But when God, who had set me apart even from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, was pleased to reveal His Son in me so that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with flesh and blood

Acts 22:21 "And He said to me, 'Go! For I will send you far away to the Gentiles.'

Romans 1:14-15 I am under obligation both to Greeks and to barbarians, both to the wise and to the foolish. So, for my part, I am eager to preach the gospel to you also who are in Rome

Words vs the written account of Paul visiting synagogues and the unequivocal fact of Jews being converted? C'mon man. Paul conterted plently of Jews in his travels. He habituated with Jews everywhere.

 

[VCO]

Noting but untruths in this post FRAN..........you are as deceptive as they come.......

See that is why I put her in my IGNORE List. I am convinced she is doing this ON PURPOSE, BECAUSE SHE THINKS IT IS ALL FUNNY.