Repentance

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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#41
I think a big factor in our disagreement is the different material that I've read. In addition to the Bible I have also researched a ton of other material including many Youtube videos and comments covering this topic, revelations from God on YouTube, Near Death Experiences describing information given to people by God and Angels, and also the present day ministry known as AlmightyWind, which claims to receive direct revelations from God. AlmightyWind contends that we should keep the 10 Commandments. Their website is AlmightyWind.com
People should keep the 10 commandments.

But if you read Matthew 5 you will see that this is VERY difficult.

People are going to need some help.
 

joseph123

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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#42
The law does bring us to Christ.

Not just those who practice Judaism.

Why else would someone need a Saviour? Why would a person need to be saved from their sin if they didn't know what sin was?
That's a good point. You're sort of right. But I was referring to the Mosaic law and all of its 613 commandments, not just the simple handful of sins that churches talk about. You're right as far as those laws go.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#43
A blanket confession is indeed a safe way to practice 1 John 1:9. I used to practice that too.

Now, I simply practice Hebrews 10 and stop being conscience of my sins.

10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.

Instead, I remind myself daily, "I am the righteousness of God in Christ" . I believe that is more pleasing to God when he sees me in Christ. :)
 

joseph123

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
49
10
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#44
People should keep the 10 commandments.

But if you read Matthew 5 you will see that this is VERY difficult.

People are going to need some help.
It is difficult to keep the 10 commandments. Everybody should try to keep them. It doesn't have much of an impact on the rest my life. I try to keep them, even the Sabbath commandment. The sabbath commandment does conflict with work. The hardest part of keeping the commandments is probably not masturbating or fornicating. That part takes a LOT of discipline.

You're right that everybody stumbles though and that's why we need Jesus Christ. But I think everybody has to make an effort.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#45
It is difficult to keep the 10 commandments. Everybody should try to keep them. I try to keep them, even the Sabbath commandment. It doesn't have much of an impact on the rest my life. The sabbath commandment does conflict with work. The hardest part of keeping the commandments is probably not masturbating or fornicating. That part takes a LOT of discipline.

You're right that everybody stumbles though and that's why we need Jesus Christ. But I think everybody has to make an effort.
It is impossible because the law is not meant for us to keep. God did not give us the law for us to try to keep, even after we become Christians. Paul himself stated in 1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The law is meant to stir sin in our flesh, the more you try to keep the law, the more condemnation you will feel.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,190
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#46
It is difficult to keep the 10 commandments. Everybody should try to keep them. I try to keep them, even the Sabbath commandment. It doesn't have much of an impact on the rest my life. The sabbath commandment does conflict with work. The hardest part of keeping the commandments is probably not masturbating or fornicating. That part takes a LOT of discipline.

You're right that everybody stumbles though and that's why we need Jesus Christ. But I think everybody has to make an effort.
If you read Matthew 5 you find out that even your thoughts are evil continually.

Then you have to make a decision.

Continue on in "keeping" the 10 commandments or come to Christ and receive Rest from your work at the law.

Coming to Christ is better. But if you are determined to work at the commandments how will you ever find out?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#47
If you read Matthew 5 you find out that even your thoughts are evil continually.

Then you have to make a decision.

Continue on in "keeping" the 10 commandments or come to Christ and receive Rest from your work at the law.

Coming to Christ is better. But if you are determined to work at the commandments how will you ever find out?
Amen, keeping the ten is not just difficult, it is impossible
 

joseph123

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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#48
It is impossible because the law is not meant for us to keep. God did not give us the law for us to try to keep, even after we become Christians. Paul himself stated in 1 Cor 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

The law is meant to stir sin in our flesh, the more you try to keep the law, the more condemnation you will feel.
The first point I'll answer is that God did give us the law for Israel to try to keep. Otherwise he wouldn't have been justified in killing Israel for disobedience.

The second point I'll make is that it isn't clear what Paul was saying. He said that the law gives sin its power. But it isn't clear whether he meant that the law makes us want to sin, or whether he meant that the law gives sin the power to kill us in the second death. I think the law gives sin the power to kill us in the second death, since God has to judge us based on the law.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#49
Amen, keeping the ten is not just difficult, it is impossible
Exactly......In all of history there has only been ONE man to keep the law.....JESUS..........and the irony.....that people today in their self conceited righteousness believe in their mind that they are more holy, more faithful, more righteous and more dedicated in their walk then JOB, Daniel, Moses, John the Baptist, and Abraham while being COEQUAL with JESUS in their ability to keep the law............it is the most ridiculous belief that one can possibly embrace....that being--> a belief that one keeps or has kept the law...........
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#50
The second point I'll make is that it isn't clear what Paul was saying. He said that the law gives sin its power. But it isn't clear whether he meant that the law makes us want to sin, or whether he meant that the law gives sin the power to kill us in the second death. I think the law gives sin the power to kill us in the second death, since God has to judge us based on the law.
Romans 7 will make it clear to you that, because of the flesh in us, the law stir us into sin. We will not be completely free from this flesh until the rapture of the Church. :) That also answers your first point about the purpose of the law from God.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
 

joseph123

Junior Member
Jan 21, 2018
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#51
Romans 7 will make it clear to you that, because of the flesh in us, the law stir us into sin. We will not be completely free from this flesh until the rapture of the Church. :) That also answers your first point about the purpose of the law from God.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Okay, it's clear that Paul was making the point that the law increases your carnal desires. But he didn't mean that the law increases sin here. There's a fine distinction.

8 "But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power." (NLT)

Here you can see that through the law, sin itself increased his covetous desires. He didn't say that the law increased his sin. Sin here gives rise to desire. The law doesn't give rise to sin.

So this passage does not say that the law increases sin. It just increases the power of sin. :)
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#52
Okay, it's clear that Paul was making the point that the law increases your carnal desires. But he didn't mean that the law increases sin here. There's a fine distinction.
He already stated For without the law sin was dead. No law means no sin.
 
T

Tim416

Guest
#53
Okay, it's clear that Paul was making the point that the law increases your carnal desires. But he didn't mean that the law increases sin here. There's a fine distinction.

8 "But sin used this command to arouse all kinds of covetous desires within me! If there were no law, sin would not have that power." (NLT)

Here you can see that through the law, sin itself increased his covetous desires. He didn't say that the law increased his sin. Sin here gives rise to desire. The law doesn't give rise to sin.

So this passage does not say that the law increases sin. It just increases the power of sin. :)
For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death rom7:5

Example:

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.


9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.


11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 7-11

What happens when you give your child a set of rules? It stirs up excitement in them to break the rules, that is human nature. The legally enforceable law with the power to condemn does indeed give great desire to break it(strangely)
For: The penalty of sin brings great fear of sin, and fear of sin brings much allurement to sin. Put it this way, if I told you if you thought of a pink elephant God would condemn you to hell, what is the first thought that would come into your head if you believed me? It would not be long before you were consumed with thoughts of the creature would it!!
So if someone said to you: If you covet for example God will send you to hell, what are you going to start thinking about then? In the end you would be full of all manner of concupiscence. The law did not need to be abolished, by the penalty being paid for transgression, the examples I gave would not apply
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#54
The Greek word for "repent" is "metanoia" (noun) and "matanoeo" (verb) you see as defined in the Strongs #3340, 3341: to think differently or afterwards, reconsider. After thought, change of mind. Repentance basically means a "change of mind" and the context must determine what is involved in this change of mind. Where salvation is in view, repentance actually precedes saving faith in Christ and is not a totally separate act from faith. It is actually the same coin with two sides. Repentance is on one side, what you change your mind about and faith in Christ is on the positive side, the new direction of this change of mind. *Repentance and faith are two sides of the same experience of coming to and receiving Christ.

In the context of Luke 13:3, Jesus challenged the people's notion that they were morally superior to those who suffered in such catastrophes. He called all to repent or perish. For some people though, prior to coming to the end result of repentance in receiving salvation (faith in Christ), they must change their minds about other specific things in order to get there. Repentance, metanoia, focuses on changing one's mind about his previous concept of God (as in Acts 17:30) and disbelief in God or false beliefs (polytheism and idolatry) about God (1 Thessalonians 1:9). On the other hand, this change of mind, focuses on the new direction that change about God must ultimately take, namely, trusting in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. (Acts 20:21)

Certain people misunderstand the term "repentance" to simply mean "turning from all sin/completely stop sinning," which is not the Biblical definition of repentance. The Bible also tells us that true repentance will result in a change of actions. Acts 26:20 declares, "I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds." This is the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8), not the essence of repentance (change of mind). Certain people confuse the "fruit of repentance" with the "essence of repentance" (and also do the same thing with faith) and end up teaching salvation by works.

I have heard certain people say, "If you want to be saved, repent of your sins, turn from your sins." If turning from your sins means to stop sinning, then people can only be saved if they stop sinning. And in that case, it is unlikely that anyone will be saved, since we don't know anyone who has ever "completely stopped sinning."
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#55
The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. GBU
In regards to Mark 2:27, "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath, so the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath," this statement was in response to the accusation by the Pharisees that His disciples were breaking the law regarding resting on the Sabbath while going through some fields and plucking heads of grain. (Matthew 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-5)

Jesus responded by giving an example from the Old Testament that David was once in need of food and was given consecrated bread that was only lawful for the priests to eat. (1 Samuel 21:1-6) The bread served a practical need for David and his followers, just as with Jesus and His disciples, the grain served a practical need. David and his men were not acting sinfully in eating the showbread, and neither were Jesus’ disciples acting sinfully in plucking heads of grain on the Sabbath. Jesus concludes, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." Jesus' response to the accusing Pharisees contains two important teachings.

First, the Sabbath was intended to help people, not burden them. In contrast with the grueling daily work as slaves in Egypt, the Israelites were commanded to take a day of rest each week under the Mosaic Law. The Pharisees had turned the Sabbath into a burden, adding restrictions beyond what God’s law said. The disciples had not broken God’s law; they had only violated the Pharisees’ legalistic, interpretation of the law. Jesus reminded the Pharisees of the original intent of the Sabbath rest. Jesus statement does not teach that the Sabbath was made for all mankind, as some would suppose.

The Sabbath was not given to all the nations. It was given to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. 2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - "Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses." *Nowhere in Scripture is there any hint that weekly Sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The Word of God makes it clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel: "The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested." (Exodus 31:16-17)

In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: "Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day." (Deuteronomy 5:15).

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians in the New Testament.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#56
It's unfortunate that in reading this thread. REPENTANCE is alway's tied to sin. There are OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.

The baptism of repentance preached by John the Baptist. Is 100% to/for the Nation of Israel. ZERO gentiles were in the wilderness being baptized by John.

TWO PROGRAMS:

The Nation of Israel is a called out assembly. Program 1.

The Body of Christ is a called out assembly. Program 2.

The two called out assembiles are completely separate. Mixing the two invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations.

Program 1: required works via Mosaic Law & repentance for breaking covenant with God Jer 31:32. They knew God & had strayed from him. They were to repent = change their minds/course & return to their God. The water baptism was a Jewish purification doctrine/ritual. A cleansing to prepare them (Johns purpose) to meet their God.

Being water baptized doesn't remove sin, law keeping doesn't remove sin, obedience doesn't remove sin, repentance dosen't remove sin. Nothing but the BLOOD of Christ can remove sin.

Program 2: Requires FAITH in Christ's FINISHED work of redemption. Found in the death (sins demanded payment) & resurrection (God's receipt, payment received & accepted)

Mixing the two programs invariably leads to doctrinal misinterpretations

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them which heard the word.
(NOTE: They Believed (vs43) & as Peter spoke (vs44) The Holy Spirit fell on then. No REPENTANCE, No water baptism, No circumcision, they brought no sin sacrifice to the Temple, No law keeping etc)

Thru Faith & faith alone these gentiles received the baptism of/were SEALED by the Holy Spirit (vs45)

ActS 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
(NOTE: God GRANTED gentiles repentance)

Rom 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
(NOTE: It's not thru OUR OWN great work of obedience, that we REPENT/change our thinking/course. It's the indwelling Holy Spirit that leads us to REPENT/change our thinking outlook).

Rom 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, ""so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience"" ""that comes from faith""
(NOTE: Gentiles are brought to obedience/repentance/godly living thru Faith)

Romans 3:21 (A) now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested (revealed)
(NOTE: Righteousness WITHOUT law keeping)

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: Faith "OF" Jesus Christ! Righteousness is brought/imputed to ALL that believe in JESUS PAYMENT & RECURRECTION. Other scripture on the Faith ""OF"" Christ. Gal 2:16, 2:20, 3:22)

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
(NOTE: The just live by """HIS""" faith!)

Romans 5:9 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: By by the OBEDIENCE of ONE = Jesus Christ! Many = Those that will BELIEVE?TRUST in Christ's FINISH SIN REDEMPTIVE WORK! Will be made righteous)

Works based doctrines are opposite of the facts. It makes salvation about you. While ROBBING Christ of the glory to be found in his selfless, righteous, redemptive, sacrificial sin atoning WORKS/payment.

If a sinless Jesus (he didn't die for his own sins, he didn't have any sin) died for all, of every believers sins. What sin could/can cost a believers salvation?

That's not to say sin doesn't/can't have consequence.

Certianly sin can have consequence. The consequence from sin could manifest itself, in many different ways. A health issue, a broken relationship, disease, prison, lost of heavenly rewards earned etc.

Although, a believers sin may result in negative consequence. It """WILL NOT""" result in the loss of salvation (1 Cor 3:11-15).

Finally, this false notion a christian must confess every sin:

1st, its impossible (Matt 5:28) Jesus adds unpure thougts to become death sentence sins.

2ndly, Christ paid for all of every believers sins. To ask forgiveness shows a lack of faith in Christ's payment.

When the Holy Spirit reveals that miss the mark/sinned & we all will. We are to thank & praise God for the forgiveness ALREADY PROVIDED via our Great God & Savior, Jesus the Christ.

Although, a believers sin may result in negative consequence. It WILL NOT result in the loss of salvation (1 Cor 3:11-15).

Unbelief toward God & Christ is the only unforgivable sin.

Acts 10:44 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

I Cor 15:1-4 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

Rom 10:8-15 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

Ehp 1:13 NO REPENTANCE MENTIONED

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: Grace = Jesus Christ is a GIFT Jn 3:16. Accesed thru FAITH Rom 5:2 (A) we have access to God by/thru faith)

When Faith is your root. Repentance/Obedience will be your fruit.

When we trust & rest in Christ, God works. When we trust in our own works, Gods Rests.
(NOTE: Grace = Jesus Christ is a GIFT Jn 3:16. Accesed thru FAITH Rom 5:2 (A) we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand)

When Faith is your root. Repentance/Obedience will be your fruit.

When we trust/rest in Christ, God works. When we trust in our own work, Gods Rests.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#57
It's unfortunate that in reading this thread. REPENTANCE is alway's tied to sin. There are OT verses where a SINLESS God repents. Gen 6:6-7, Deut 32:36, Jud 2:18, 1 Sam 15:11 & 29 to name a few.
Good point, I see you are believe in dispensationalism, and was probably taught by Les Feldick, or Doctrine.org or et al.

One questions though, do all dispensationalists have to believe that the miracle gifts of healing have ceased?
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#58
too much denomination doctrine, not enough scripture or scripture without spirit.