Are there two gospels or ONE?
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One thing I would say (since you and I are both "pre-trib" and grasp that idea, though we disagree in some aspects I know), would be to point out (though you disagree in some ways) an example of what *I* am saying...
the Olivet Discourse (except for about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about 70ad) is ALL about events that FOLLOW our Rapture; for example:
--the FIRST SEAL (Rev6) = the "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" of Matt24:4/Mk13:5 (in "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" section) = the time of the ARRIVAL of the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" (i.e. the DOTL time period and its ARRIVAL) = the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" of "the man of sin" IN HIS TIME = the Dan9:27a[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" and the "FOR ONE WEEK [7yrs]" thing that he does...
^ that is at least 5 things (passages) regarding the same point in time (and thing that will happen ^ ) that takes place AFTER our departure in the Rapture (that is, nothing in the remainder of Matt24-25 applies, in a direct sense, to "the Church which is His body" [the "ONE BODY"]).
The things that follow those verses (explaining what also happens following THAT thing) are not things that WE must "do" (it is not US that will need to "flee into the mountains" but someone [FOLLOWING well after our Rapture] WILL need to!) It will not be "the Church which is His body" doing the Matthew 24:14[26:13] thing, but "saints" DURING the trib WILL be. This is just a small part of what *I* mean when I say that some scriptures do not apply to us in a primary way (sure we are to read it, understand it aright, apply it properly to whom it shall or does apply, learn all we can from it by means of His Spirit the Teacher, but this does not mean we place ourselves IN the trib period just because scripture is written about it
)
the Olivet Discourse (except for about 12 verses in Lk21:12-24a about 70ad) is ALL about events that FOLLOW our Rapture; for example:
--the FIRST SEAL (Rev6) = the "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE'" of Matt24:4/Mk13:5 (in "the beginning of birth PANGS [plural]" section) = the time of the ARRIVAL of the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; 1Th5:2-3]" (i.e. the DOTL time period and its ARRIVAL) = the "whose coming/advent/arrival/presence/parousia" of "the man of sin" IN HIS TIME = the Dan9:27a[26] "prince THAT SHALL COME" and the "FOR ONE WEEK [7yrs]" thing that he does...
^ that is at least 5 things (passages) regarding the same point in time (and thing that will happen ^ ) that takes place AFTER our departure in the Rapture (that is, nothing in the remainder of Matt24-25 applies, in a direct sense, to "the Church which is His body" [the "ONE BODY"]).
The things that follow those verses (explaining what also happens following THAT thing) are not things that WE must "do" (it is not US that will need to "flee into the mountains" but someone [FOLLOWING well after our Rapture] WILL need to!) It will not be "the Church which is His body" doing the Matthew 24:14[26:13] thing, but "saints" DURING the trib WILL be. This is just a small part of what *I* mean when I say that some scriptures do not apply to us in a primary way (sure we are to read it, understand it aright, apply it properly to whom it shall or does apply, learn all we can from it by means of His Spirit the Teacher, but this does not mean we place ourselves IN the trib period just because scripture is written about it
)^ Think of the folks who believe that THEY (of course) ARE "the 144,000," and consequently believe that ONLY 144,000 people will ever make it to heaven or to perfection or to God-status, or something. That is a clear mis-application of scripture. Pretty sure people here can grasp that, right?
Or, to a lesser degree (because you understand "pre-trib" thought), post-tribbers who place themselves into scriptures describing the tribulation period and its events. See what I mean? They could say the very same thing you've said, above, and do say it (in a similar way).
Or, to a lesser degree (because you understand "pre-trib" thought), post-tribbers who place themselves into scriptures describing the tribulation period and its events. See what I mean? They could say the very same thing you've said, above, and do say it (in a similar way).
Good point, I believe most of us will know instinctively that the Gospel is all about how Jesus died for my sins, and was raised from the dead on the third day. That was how all of us are saved by.
What people find is tougher to accept is the reality that, in the 4 gospels and early Acts, that was NOT the Gospel that is commonly understood among the Jews.
Matt 16 had a very interesting account of Peter
15 Then he asked them, “But who do you say I am?”16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah,[d] the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John,[e] because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.
So far so good, but amusingly a few verses later in the same chapter, which I will use the NKJV instead of my usual NLT to bring out the word rebuke.
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, [i]“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are [j]an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Paul, taught by the ascended Christ Jesus, proclaimed in 1 Cor 15: 3 (NLT) I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. 4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said.
Thus, this critical point was a puzzle to all the Jews, and even to Peter. He could so easily believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but he actually dare to rebuke Jesus for proclaiming the divine exchange.
What people find is tougher to accept is the reality that, in the 4 gospels and early Acts, that was NOT the Gospel that is commonly understood among the Jews.
Matt 16 had a very interesting account of Peter
15 Then he asked them, “But who do you say I am?”16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah,[d] the Son of the living God.” 17 Jesus replied, “You are blessed, Simon son of John,[e] because my Father in heaven has revealed this to you. You did not learn this from any human being.
So far so good, but amusingly a few verses later in the same chapter, which I will use the NKJV instead of my usual NLT to bring out the word rebuke.
21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, [i]“Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are [j]an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Paul, taught by the ascended Christ Jesus, proclaimed in 1 Cor 15: 3 (NLT) I passed on to you what was most important and what had also been passed on to me. Christ died for our sins, just as the Scriptures said. 4 He was buried, and he was raised from the dead on the third day, just as the Scriptures said.
Thus, this critical point was a puzzle to all the Jews, and even to Peter. He could so easily believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but he actually dare to rebuke Jesus for proclaiming the divine exchange.
Good point, James wrote his letter before the Jerusalem Council event in Acts 15 and Galatians. The book of James was probably the earliest NT book written.
Many of us like to think the bible authors "anticipate" revelation, we put ourselves in their shoes, and we think James would have understood everything that Paul wrote in his letters, before he wrote James.
But the reality is that James was directing his letter to the 12 tribes of Israel, and he did not knew the events that would take place in Acts 15 when he wrote it.
And interestingly, even after the Jerusalem Council, he still have the view that Jews must still follow the Law, only Gentiles are exempted. Why do I think that? It was thru reading Acts 21, when Paul returned to Jerusalem to give a report to the Jewish brothers about his work among the Gentiles.
17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 [d]What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided [e]that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from [f]sexual immorality.”
Many of us like to think the bible authors "anticipate" revelation, we put ourselves in their shoes, and we think James would have understood everything that Paul wrote in his letters, before he wrote James.
But the reality is that James was directing his letter to the 12 tribes of Israel, and he did not knew the events that would take place in Acts 15 when he wrote it.
And interestingly, even after the Jerusalem Council, he still have the view that Jews must still follow the Law, only Gentiles are exempted. Why do I think that? It was thru reading Acts 21, when Paul returned to Jerusalem to give a report to the Jewish brothers about his work among the Gentiles.
17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 [d]What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided [e]that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from [f]sexual immorality.”
You should study and read more Scripture. Let's take a look again at Acts 16.
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Paul and Silas, after telling the man to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, they took him and his family and expounded on what that meant (And they spake unto him the word of the Lord).
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Paul and Silas, after telling the man to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, they took him and his family and expounded on what that meant (And they spake unto him the word of the Lord).
^ For sure Peter used "brethren" in that way in Acts 3:12-19 -
"12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."
"12 And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?
13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
14 But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;
15 And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.
16 And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.
17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord."
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