Does God want us to choose between law and grace?

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Grandpa said:
I understand all of that.

How come you didn't answer the question I asked you?

How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???

Why would you call it "righteousness" if it didn't make you righteous before God???

I'm trying to help you see something but it doesn't look like it is possible.
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I think it is you who cannot see. Under the old covenant they lived under righteousness of observing the law. Did they immediately cast it aside as soon as they transgressed the law/committed sin? According to your thinking they must have done
 
Endoscopy said:
God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives
The point was synonyms are not always the exact same thing. Covet is much stronger than desire. Therein lies the problem. Desire is needed but not to allow it to rise to the level of covet.
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Really? Desire means covet. However, I think I am more in line with Paul's view of what thou shalt not covet entails. Rom7:7-11 recounts what happened to Saul once he made a personal commitment to God at the age of thirteen for a young jewish lad. I could recite those verses word for word, as to what happened to me once I made a commitment at a young age. Whereas you said, puberty just passed you by.
Paul said the letter of the ten commandments kills for a reason.
 
Endoscopy said:
I have asked previously and no one has answered why Tim416 comments were inserted into my post and truncated my comment. I'm pissed about this!!!
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I understand now why you reason as you do concerning the tenth commandment. I will leave it there
 
Dino246 said:
In the context of the tenth commandment, "covet" means to desire to acquire or have something that is not available to acquire or have. The verse notes people and things "belonging to your neighbor"... or in marketing terms, "not for sale". It further implies that despite the unavailability of the person or thing, you continue to focus on the desire for it.

If simple desire were the point, then ALL barter and trade, whether involving money or not, would be inherently sinful. Given that Scripture records trade between willing participants, that cannot be the correct interpretation.
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If I desire to trade at a shop, that would not be sinfull. If I desired to sleep with my neighbours wife, would that not be sinfull in your view?
 
Tim416 said:
I understand now why you reason as you do concerning the tenth commandment. I will leave it there
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Are you saying that you messed up my post and truncated my comment on purpose? If so that is despicable. Explain why to me!!

Maybe you should explain it to the moderator!!
 
Tim416 said:
I understand now why you reason as you do concerning the tenth commandment. I will leave it there
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Are you admitting you did this to my post?

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s” (Ex. 20:17).

This is absolutely no reason for modifying my post and changing the critical sentence!!! The discussion was about the difference between covet and desire. Whoever did this went way beyond Christian discussion. It borders on evil!!
 
Under the old covenant Moses told the people if they obeyed the law given at Sanai, that would be their righteousness(deut6:25)

Paul said: Christ is the end of the law unto righteousness for everyone who believeth Rom10:4

As Moses knew people sinned, and the law would convict them of sin, was he wrong, and was Paul wrong to believe righteousness of obeying the law was in place? Forgiveness of sin was available for people under righteousness of obeying the law.

Saul the Pharisee, though he sinned believed he was under righteousness of observing the law as a Pharisee.


Did Saul or anyone else stop believing they were under righteousness of obeying the law when they sinned?



How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???



This is very strange. According to such logic, no one lived under righteousness of obeying the law under the OC



Why would you call it "righteousness" if it didn't make you righteous before God???



The law does not make anyone righteous. Man is to obey it as the condition to be in a righteous state before God. As mentioned, forgiveness is still available for transgression under righteousness of obeying the law



The difference between being or not being under the law is this. If you are not under the law, the law cannot condemn you. Now before I get the response. ‘’But the law does not condemn you if you can seek forgiveness for sin under the law’’

There is a huge difference btween the two. As Paul knew!!

 
Tim416 said:
Interesting. But desiring your neighbours wife would not be committing sin
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I agree. Coveting is way beyond desire. Part of the definition is a strong desire to own it. Doesn't matter if it is person or object.
 
Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. Therefore all are under the law. When we admit we sin we are admitting this. Those who accept the free gift of grace through faith in Jesus have the penalty removed from them. Too many think it has to be earned through works. No one can earn it. Those who ignore grace will be judged according to the law.
 
Endoscopy said:
I agree. Coveting is way beyond desire. Part of the definition is a strong desire to own it. Doesn't matter if it is person or object.
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I have asked previously and no one has answered why Tim416 comments were inserted into my post and truncated my comment. I'm pissed about this!!!

I am afraid someone who is content to write the above, will not discern what they should discern
 
Endoscopy said:
Jesus said the law is in place until heaven and earth disappear. Therefore all are under the law. When we admit we sin we are admitting this. Those who accept the free gift of grace through faith in Jesus have the penalty removed from them. Too many think it has to be earned through works. No one can earn it. Those who ignore grace will be judged according to the law.
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Christians are not under the law. When Paul states believers are not under the law, he means righteousness of obeying the law.
It is true the law has not been abolished, but the penalty for transgression has been removed for believers
 
Paul states the letter of the ten commandments kills for a reason. Growing up, I knew desiring a woman was sin. So did the apostle Paul.
I could quote word for word rom7:7-11 as my own personal experience once I made a commitment to Christ, as Paul wrote of when he made a personal commitment to God. For those who say, puberty just passed them by leaves only two options. Either they were not in earnest about God, or, they do not have the understanding Paul had of what is required to obey the ten commandments, namely in this instance, the tenth one
 
Tim416 said:
If I desire to trade at a shop, that would not be sinfull. If I desired to sleep with my neighbours wife, would that not be sinfull in your view?
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I think you missed the point. Perhaps take another read through my post.
 
The commandment against coveting is not linked to sexuality. One does not desire sex with the neighbour's house (Exodus 20:17a).
 
Dino246 said:
The commandment against coveting is not linked to sexuality. One does not desire sex with the neighbour's house (Exodus 20:17a).
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for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence
Rom7:7&8
 
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