Does God want us to choose between law and grace?
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T
Paul said, the letter of the Ten Commandments kills. He said that letter was the ministry of death and condemnation (2Cor3:6-9)
He gave an example of why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law. The example he gave was: Thou shalt not covet. (rom7
I know the letter of that law kills, and I would agree with the example Paul gave as to why it kills(though it can be said to kill in other areas too)
Speaking personally, the more guilty I see I am according to that letter, the more gratitude and love I can have for God in sending his son to die for me.
He gave an example of why he had to die to righteousness of obeying the law. The example he gave was: Thou shalt not covet. (rom7
I know the letter of that law kills, and I would agree with the example Paul gave as to why it kills(though it can be said to kill in other areas too)
Speaking personally, the more guilty I see I am according to that letter, the more gratitude and love I can have for God in sending his son to die for me.
However, as always, there are two sides to this coin. One is to meditate on how the depths of our sin magnifies the mercy of Jesus, and so excuse the sin within. Believing it remains.
As the other focuses on the fact that not only is Jesus merciful enough to forgive, he is also willing and able to clean the sin from our hearts.
I see too many focus on the mercy yet neglect the cleansing. So excusing there sins because they think Jesus only forgives. But he not only calls to forgive he also intends to purify, in the here and now.
As the other focuses on the fact that not only is Jesus merciful enough to forgive, he is also willing and able to clean the sin from our hearts.
I see too many focus on the mercy yet neglect the cleansing. So excusing there sins because they think Jesus only forgives. But he not only calls to forgive he also intends to purify, in the here and now.
T
This was covetousnesss to Paul:
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
You in your heart want to follow what is in your heart. You cannot seek to excuse what is in your heart and mind. Because that is where God placed his laws in me, I have no excuse for sin, and have no rest or peace if I commit 'wilfull sin'' until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for my folly.
Nor do I havew the liuxury of dumbing the law within me down from the pristine level it is set at. It amazes, and I say this sincerely, how some who clainm to obey the ten commandments can do that. It is a world I know nothing of
For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
You in your heart want to follow what is in your heart. You cannot seek to excuse what is in your heart and mind. Because that is where God placed his laws in me, I have no excuse for sin, and have no rest or peace if I commit 'wilfull sin'' until I come before my Father in Heaven and tell him I am sorry for my folly.
Nor do I havew the liuxury of dumbing the law within me down from the pristine level it is set at. It amazes, and I say this sincerely, how some who clainm to obey the ten commandments can do that. It is a world I know nothing of
T
When I went through puberty, I in effect lived under righteousness of obeying the law. So as I could not be righteous before God, I gave up with church for a few years. I firmly believed in God and His Son who died for me. I just could not be good enough for Him.
Did I think I was not that bad?
I felt dirty, useless, and thoroughly ashamed of my imperfections.
Did I think I was not that bad?
I felt dirty, useless, and thoroughly ashamed of my imperfections.
T
You think it is impossible, due to not knowing the Gospel message to in effect live under righteousness of observing the law? And when you fail, as you must, you do not realise you cannot be righteous by obeying the law? The only thing that amazes me, is people who do in effect live under righteousness of obeying the law, actually believing they can then be righteous before God
This is pretty much what I was afraid of, for you.
It wasn't a typo. You actually believe this.
How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???
If you are convicted of sin you are NOT RIGHTEOUS. Only if you are convicted of Righteousness are you Righteous.
It wasn't a typo. You actually believe this.
How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???
If you are convicted of sin you are NOT RIGHTEOUS. Only if you are convicted of Righteousness are you Righteous.
T
You seem not to understand a simple fact. Many people, in reality try to be righteous/be in a justified state by obeying the moral law. Churches are full of such people. They beg God's forgiveness everytime they fail, fearing hell due to slightest imperfections. Then they start again, trying to be good enough under the law. It takes people time(in the real world) to reaslise it is a forlorn hope, and they have no chance of being righteous under the law.
In the context of the tenth commandment, "covet" means to desire to acquire or have something that is not available to acquire or have. The verse notes people and things "belonging to your neighbor"... or in marketing terms, "not for sale". It further implies that despite the unavailability of the person or thing, you continue to focus on the desire for it.
If simple desire were the point, then ALL barter and trade, whether involving money or not, would be inherently sinful. Given that Scripture records trade between willing participants, that cannot be the correct interpretation.
If simple desire were the point, then ALL barter and trade, whether involving money or not, would be inherently sinful. Given that Scripture records trade between willing participants, that cannot be the correct interpretation.
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I understand all of that.
How come you didn't answer the question I asked you?
How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???
Why would you call it "righteousness" if it didn't make you righteous before God???
I'm trying to help you see something but it doesn't look like it is possible.
How come you didn't answer the question I asked you?
How could you POSSIBLY think that you lived under the righteousness of observing the law if it convicted you of sin???
Why would you call it "righteousness" if it didn't make you righteous before God???
I'm trying to help you see something but it doesn't look like it is possible.
God gave men the desire when looking at a woman or picture of a woman for a reason. It drives
God is not tempted and neither does he temp.
That is the god of this world working in his three avenues.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Before the fall they had some sort of glow being in the presence of the glory of God clothing them as the presence of the righteousness of Christ as bright as the Sun . When God corrupted the first creation they tried to cover their nakedness intimately reserved for husband and wife eyes only.
God is not tempted and neither does he temp.
That is the god of this world working in his three avenues.
1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Before the fall they had some sort of glow being in the presence of the glory of God clothing them as the presence of the righteousness of Christ as bright as the Sun . When God corrupted the first creation they tried to cover their nakedness intimately reserved for husband and wife eyes only.